IG Report to blast FBI

Sound legal advice as always bob. Trump can now do something he always could have done. Brilliant.

There is no way you are a functional adult, married, with kids and living in NY, and still lack such a fundamental knowledge of our legal system.



They've been doing that since day 1 for shit reasons. I'm not moved by them coming up with another shit reason to continue moaning.





Well it's true isn't it?



I get that you’re new to politics, so allow me to explain it to you.


If trump plead the 5th prior to this, it would look very bad and be quite politically damaging, despite being legal. Now that he has irrefutable evidence of investigators who are biased against him, he has literally the perfect excuse.


Glad I could help you understand the situation.
 
If trump plead the 5th prior to this, it would look very bad and be quite politically damaging, despite being legal. Now that he has irrefutable evidence of investigators who are biased against him, he has literally the perfect excuse.

Bob, the only person who can plead the 5th, is the defendant, in a criminal investigation. It would not apply to trump, because a sitting president cannot, constitutionally, be charged with a crime and hauled into criminal court.

But please, keep trying to explain to americans their own laws.
 
Because of these text, republicans are now going after Meuller hard.
We got to feast upon the rarest of salty tears, real life high ranking FBI agent tears.

You keep saying that but it's not true.
All i see is the same House member Trump sycophants trying to discredit the investigation.

No congress members with any clout will push back against Mueller as he's done nothing wrong so far.
Even your ex-boyfriend Gowdy said Mueller should be left alone to investigate.

I'm sure "the next IG Report" will be the one bob. Maybe you should get your thread started now just to be safe.
 
Bob, the only person who can plead the 5th, is the defendant, in a criminal investigation. It would not apply to trump, because a sitting president cannot, constitutionally, be charged with a crime and hauled into criminal court.

But please, keep trying to explain to americans their own laws.

<36>


“Trump can now do something he always could have done“

- Darkballs



Next time, try to remember your own post. That way you don’t look like an idiot trying to cover up the fact that you didn’t consider the optics.
 
No it isn't. You've got partisan text messages from a handful of people, most of whom were immediately fired. I see evidence of political affillitation, but not bias in the sense that these people in any way shaped the investigation due to this bias. What you have with these texts, are proof that some people on the investigation were democrats. For most of the right, that is enough to disregard everything they say. Not for me. Until you can show how this "bias" impacted the investigation, I'm about as shocked as someone providing text messages that show Mitch McConnel to be a republican.

Read this post very carefully. You are dead wrong about extreme political bias not being a basis for dismissing an indictment or shutting down an investigation. First of all, merely sending political messages and discussing extreme political views using government devices during work hours is a violation of the Hatch Act. But as the OIG's report pointed out, the "partisan text messages" at issue here were far from innocuous "evidence of political affiliation." Rather, they "implie[d] a willingness to take official action to impact the presidential candidate’s electoral prospects." Such activity would violate the Hatch Act's criminal provisions. See 18 U.S.C. § 595 (outlawing use of "official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President"). This means that the agents who came up with this "insurance policy" in order to "stop" Trump in service to "le Resistance" have all committed crimes, and that can't be ameliorated by charging Paul Manafort or a few random Russian internet trolls. Moreover, it's a crime to use government authority to intentionally deprive someone of their Constitutional rights, or to use it in retaliation for exercising a Constitutional right. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 241-242. This means that if the implicated agents knew or should have known that they were conducting searches and seizures without probable cause in order to harm a political adversary, they're all in on a criminal conspiracy. You and I apparently disagree about the trustworthiness of the alleged evidence which formed the basis of the Russia investigation, and whether it constituted probable cause for the crime of "collusion" with Russia. That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I will however point out that nobody has been charged with that crime, and we have evidence that the agents who initiated the Russia probe knew "there’s no big there there.” If you think the Court will refuse to terminate a roving criminal investigation which was itself a crime to commence, you're simply mistaken. A pervasive pattern of criminal conduct on the part of investigators can indeed constitute "outrageous government misconduct." See Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165 (1952); U.S. v. Russell, 411 U.S. 423 (1973); U.S. v. Salerno, 481 U.S. 739 (1987); Breithaupt v. Abram, 352 U.S. 432 (1957).

Don't get me wrong. I am not of the opinion that merely holding biased views is grounds for dismissing an indictment or investigation. But that is not the factual scenario I see here. I see a baseless investigation which was itself the product of political bias against the targets, and which was conducted in a biased fashion by a network of extremely biased investigators.

Three big things wrong with the above:

1) The investigation start date: This keeps getting brought out by the right, and it has no significance to whether an investigation is lawful. Police can "investigate" someone/something whenever they want. There is no threshold for when the police can turn to an issue and start looking into it. If a police officer has nothing more than a wild baseless hunch, he can still "investigate" any issue he wants. Now he can't conduct a search, detain a suspect, or otherwise violate the Constitutional rights of anyone, but he can "investigate."
Hell, the term itself is vague enough to where that should be obvious. When does an investigation start, in a legal sense? Is it when an officer is sitting at his desk and his mind turns to a particular issue? Is it when he first puts pen to paper, filling out any paperwork for some issue? Is it when he leaves the station to look into something? There is no answer for this because the courts have never bothered with it. An investigation can be benign, or incredibly intrusive. So our legal system does not care about it. Just searches, detainments, and the like.

2) The fucking dossier:
This has been beaten to death in several other threads, but here's a quick recap one more time.
All that a judge is looking for in a warrant is whether the aggregate of everything provided by law enforcement, amounts to probable cause. If it does, a search is reasonable under the Constitution and the judge will sign off. Any piece of that overall intelligence used for probable cause can be ignored, criticized, or discarded by the judge. But just because the judge dismisses one piece of evidence, does not mean that the rest vanishes. It survives on it's own and you still look to see if the total amounts to probable cause.
The republican argument was that the Special Counsel didn't include that a copy of the Steel dossier had been paid for by the DNC or the Clinton campaign (and it had been included in the application, but mentioned only in a foot note. Republicans changed their stance from "it's not included" to "well it's only mentioned in a footnote and that's not obvious enough). There is no legal obligation to include the fact that while copies of the Steele dossier were paid for by Republican sources, Democratic ones also paid for a copy.
Even so, a judge could look at this fact (or anything else) and determine that the dossier is sufficiently untrustworthy. However the correct action would be for the judge to discard the dossier and not include it in his reasoning. What the judge can't do, and what republicans are asking him to do, is throw out the entire warrant application. There could be 200 pieces of evidence in the warrant application. Even if 199 of them the judge tosses out, if that last one still gets you to probable cause, the warrant is lawful.
Prosecutors will always load the deck for a warrant application. Now you don't want to waste your time with stupid shit, or risk annoying the judge with filler, or really weak evidence. But you never know what the judge (unless you've gone before him a bunch, and feel you can read the guy/girl) is gonna find noteworthy. Maybe you've got some awesome witness testimony that you think cuts right to the heart of the case, but the judge disagrees. Well you better have something else in case the judge ignores it. To that effect, warrant applications on complex criminal cases are usually filled evidence ranging from "damn that looks bad for the defendant," to "meh." And of course this warrant application was filled with a shit ton of such evidence.

3) Politcal beliefs or party affiliation by law enforcement, triggers nothing automatically under our law. You can't remove an investigator, or throw out his findings just due to his political leanings. You can allege bias, but determining whether or not a warrant is valid, or a search was legal, turns on its own set of standards.
So did these fbi agents actually do anything to negatively impact the investigation? Did they conduct searches without a warrant? Did they detain anyone? These are the questions you ask. Not just what political party the investigators belong to. That, by itself, means nothing.

See my response above.

And I'd be interested in what trouble you think these people should be in. We have them texting to each other about their dislike for trump. That tells us nothing about their conduct. Nothing in here comes close to "shocking the conscious" as our law requires. If it did, you're telling me that any investigation could be stopped the moment a suspect finds out the political parties of investigating officers don't match his own. I know we live in a partisan world, but most people, and certainly our federal courts, do not presume state actors are evil just because they are republican or democrat.

None of us know the breadth of what the Special Counsel has found yet. So none of us can declare with certainty whether trump broke the law. Only partisans are acting like this investigation lives and dies depending on how trump personally is punished.

What we do know is that 20 people and 3 corporations have been charged, and some of them have pled guilty. That's one of the largest groups ever charged under a Special Counsel. That's hardly nothing, and can't see why you would want Mueller to stop now unless you're worried about what he'll find later. Obviously, the more people you find in trump's orbit who committed crimes, the harder it is to make the argument that trump was just oblivious to all this.

It's the double standard by republicans which is appalling. This is a congress who held dozens of hearing on fucking Benghazi. Despite the first score of investigations returning nothing criminal, republicans insisted they needed more investigations to absolutely get to the bottom of this. Now, we can't even conclude one investigation because some members of law enforcement might be democrats. The bullshit is obvious.

Of course I wouldn't "presume" that state actors are evil in any given cause. However, in this case, the messages exchanged pretty much eliminate any innocent explanation. You might be willing to indulge their claims of naivety, but I'm not. Millions of Americans aren't.

But don't gimme your self-righteous tripe. Let's be real: the federal bureaucrats in "Le Resistance" attempted to take out Donald Trump for political reasons by abusing their access to federal law enforcement resources. It was effectively an attempted assassination. They knew exactly what they were doing – they just never thought they'd get caught. And for that matter, you know exactly what they were trying to do. I don't believe that you're concerned about "Russian collusion." I don't believe that you're concerned about rule of law, fascism, social justice, etc. I think you, like everyone else on the Left, HATE Donald Trump with a passion, and you want him impeached, imprisoned, or dead. You are willing to forgive any level of misconduct so long as it leads to Trump's demise. I'm sure you'd deny that accusation, but I'll never believe you now.

The FBI and DOJ officials implicated here, e.g. Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Sally Yates, Bruce Ohr, James Comey, Loretta Lynch, and even Robert Mueller, all rolled the dice on their little "insurance policy" and they rolled snake eyes. They raised the stakes, and now it's time for them to pay. Since we're apparently playing for blood, it's only fair that we get to see a little suffering. Ya know? I wanna hear "Moscow Mueller" beg for his life. Of course I realize that only a few of these people will ever face justice (probably only Strzok, Page, and McCabe). But in a perfect world, the members of "Le Resistance" face exposure to the following federal crimes, as codified in the U.S. Criminal Code (i.e. Title 18 of the United States Code):

  • 18 U.S.C. § 201 (bribery of witnesses)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 205 & 207 (conflicts of interest)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 210 & 211 (procurement of appointive public office)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 241 (conspiracy to violate civil rights)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 242 (willful deprivation of rights under color of law)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 245(b)(1) (interfering with protected political activities)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 401 (contempt of court)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 595 (Hatch Act - administrative interference with political process)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 610 (Hatch Act - coercion of political activity)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 792 (concealing violators of §§ 793 and 794)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 794 (delivering defense info to foreign government)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 871 (threats against president)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 872 (use of official office for extortion)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1341–1351, generally (mail or wire fraud, in its various forms)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1501–1521, generally (relating to various forms of "obstruction of justice")
  • 18 U.S.C. § 1519 (falsification of records in federal investigation)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1961–1968) (organized racketeering and corruption, i.e. "RICO" violations)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2234 (exceeding authority of warrant)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2235 (malicious procurement of warrant)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2382 (misprision of treason)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2383 (insurrection)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2384 (seditious conspiracy)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2385 (advocating overthrow of government)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510–2522 (unauthorized interception & disclosure of private communications)
As you probably know, "obstruction of justice," "false statements," "wire fraud," and "RICO" are the basic go-to charges because it's easier to persuade juries to convict, and the range of penalties for these crimes is relatively high. Whatever the maximum amount of jail time is, that's what I want for these people. They wanted to be martyrs, so I say let's grant their wish.
 
You keep saying that but it's not true.
All i see is the same House member Trump sycophants trying to discredit the investigation.

No congress members with any clout will push back against Mueller as he's done nothing wrong so far.
Even your ex-boyfriend Gowdy said Mueller should be left alone to investigate.

I'm sure "the next IG Report" will be the one bob. Maybe you should get your thread started now just to be safe.



<TrumpWrong1>


If you can’t see the shift in narrative, you haven’t been paying attention.
 
Read this post very carefully. You are dead wrong about extreme political bias not being a basis for dismissing an indictment or shutting down an investigation. First of all, merely sending political messages and discussing extreme political views using government devices during work hours is a violation of the Hatch Act. But as the OIG's report pointed out, the "partisan text messages" at issue here were far from innocuous "evidence of political affiliation." Rather, they "implie[d] a willingness to take official action to impact the presidential candidate’s electoral prospects." Such activity would violate the Hatch Act's criminal provisions. See 18 U.S.C. § 595 (outlawing use of "official authority for the purpose of interfering with, or affecting, the nomination or the election of any candidate for the office of President"). This means that the agents who came up with this "insurance policy" in order to "stop" Trump in service to "le Resistance" have all committed crimes, and that can't be ameliorated by charging Paul Manafort or a few random Russian internet trolls. Moreover, it's a crime to use government authority to intentionally deprive someone of their Constitutional rights, or to use it in retaliation for exercising a Constitutional right. See 18 U.S.C. §§ 241-242. This means that if the implicated agents knew or should have known that they were conducting searches and seizures without probable cause in order to harm a political adversary, they're all in on a criminal conspiracy. You and I apparently disagree about the trustworthiness of the alleged evidence which formed the basis of the Russia investigation, and whether it constituted probable cause for the crime of "collusion" with Russia. That's fine, we can agree to disagree. I will however point out that nobody has been charged with that crime, and we have evidence that the agents who initiated the Russia probe knew "there’s no big there there.” If you think the Court will refuse to terminate a roving criminal investigation which was itself a crime to commence, you're simply mistaken. A pervasive pattern of criminal conduct on the part of investigators can indeed constitute "outrageous government misconduct." See Rochin v. California, 342 U.S. 165 (1952); U.S. v. Russell, 411 U.S. 423 (1973); U.S. v. Salerno, 481 U.S. 739 (1987); Breithaupt v. Abram, 352 U.S. 432 (1957).

Don't get me wrong. I am not of the opinion that merely holding biased views is grounds for dismissing an indictment or investigation. But that is not the factual scenario I see here. I see a baseless investigation which was itself the product of political bias against the targets, and which was conducted in a biased fashion by a network of extremely biased investigators.



See my response above.



Of course I wouldn't "presume" that state actors are evil in any given cause. However, in this case, the messages exchanged pretty much eliminate any innocent explanation. You might be willing to indulge their claims of naivety, but I'm not. Millions of Americans aren't.

But don't gimme your self-righteous tripe. Let's be real: the federal bureaucrats in "Le Resistance" attempted to take out Donald Trump for political reasons by abusing their access to federal law enforcement resources. It was effectively an attempted assassination. They knew exactly what they were doing – they just never thought they'd get caught. And for that matter, you know exactly what they were trying to do. I don't believe that you're concerned about "Russian collusion." I don't believe that you're concerned about rule of law, fascism, social justice, etc. I think you, like everyone else on the Left, HATE Donald Trump with a passion, and you want him impeached, imprisoned, or dead. You are willing to forgive any level of misconduct so long as it leads to Trump's demise. I'm sure you'd deny that accusation, but I'll never believe you now.

The FBI and DOJ officials implicated here, e.g. Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Sally Yates, Bruce Ohr, James Comey, Loretta Lynch, and even Robert Mueller, all rolled the dice on their little "insurance policy" and they rolled snake eyes. They raised the stakes, and now it's time for them to pay. Since we're apparently playing for blood, it's only fair that we get to see a little suffering. Ya know? I wanna hear "Moscow Mueller" beg for his life. Of course I realize that only a few of these people will ever face justice (probably only Strzok, Page, and McCabe). But in a perfect world, the members of "Le Resistance" face exposure to the following federal crimes, as codified in the U.S. Criminal Code (i.e. Title 18 of the United States Code):

  • 18 U.S.C. § 201 (bribery of witnesses)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 205 & 207 (conflicts of interest)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 210 & 211 (procurement of appointive public office)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 241 (conspiracy to violate civil rights)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 242 (willful deprivation of rights under color of law)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 245(b)(1) (interfering with protected political activities)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 401 (contempt of court)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 595 (Hatch Act - administrative interference with political process)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 610 (Hatch Act - coercion of political activity)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 792 (concealing violators of §§ 793 and 794)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 794 (delivering defense info to foreign government)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 871 (threats against president)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 872 (use of official office for extortion)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1341–1351, generally (mail or wire fraud, in its various forms)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1501–1521, generally (relating to various forms of "obstruction of justice")
  • 18 U.S.C. § 1519 (falsification of records in federal investigation)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 1961–1968) (organized racketeering and corruption, i.e. "RICO" violations)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2234 (exceeding authority of warrant)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2235 (malicious procurement of warrant)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2382 (misprision of treason)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2383 (insurrection)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2384 (seditious conspiracy)
  • 18 U.S.C. § 2385 (advocating overthrow of government)
  • 18 U.S.C. §§ 2510–2522 (unauthorized interception & disclosure of private communications)
As you probably know, "obstruction of justice," "false statements," "wire fraud," and "RICO" are the basic go-to charges because it's easier to persuade juries to convict, and the range of penalties for these crimes is relatively high. Whatever the maximum amount of jail time is, that's what I want for these people. They wanted to be martyrs, so I say let's grant their wish.



Daftballs will never recover.
 
“We will stop him”

Trump now has a very convenient excuse to say “I plead the 5th” during any questioning. Who can blame him. He just points to the texts and says “I don’t trust any of them”.

Which ones could he say he doesn't trust? And who's text messages would be relevant to that?

I'm not up on everything so knowing the names of who sent the texts, and the names of who's still investigating the campaign, would be SUPER helpful.

Secondly, we do know something about Meullers investigation. Trump isn’t the target.

The way you cling to semantics from single sentences is the biggest testament to your perseverance. You're really gonna be the dog in the burning house bob. It's gonna be wonderful.

Now please, go on about how this is 73d chess by Meuller and trump can become the target at any time.

Hey bob, tell me what happens if this investigation uncovers implicit evidence of crimes committed by Donald Trump? You seem super up on the law, so I'm sure you could explain in great detail the events that would follow.

"You don't understand, they promised to work towards not being guilty. They signed the agreement. That's proof they're innocent! Give them nobel prizes!" - bobgeese when Mueller is done.
 
<TrumpWrong1>


If you can’t see the shift in narrative, you haven’t been paying attention.

You're right here bob, let's recap...

"Go ahead and investigate, you'll find nothing."

"That doesn't even have anything to do with him!"

"That, that and that other thing barely even relate to him!"

"The entire investigation is fraudulent! It's a witch hunt! FISA! SPYGATE! FAKE NEWS!"

"Even if he did commit crimes, you can't even charge him! He can just pardon himself!"

Yeah you're right bob. No way to miss that narrative change....

Daftballs will never recover.

bob will never read posts in a thread before saying something stupid.

<{Heymansnicker}>
 
You are dead wrong about extreme political bias not being a basis for dismissing an indictment or shutting down an investigation.


And this is why we can discount so much of your post, but thanks for needlessly posting a large segment of the criminal code.

Extreme political bias? And I'm the one mischaracterizing this? You have a handful of personal text messages, the most damning being "We'll stop him." And nothing else.

Let me repeat that: nothing else. Find me one example in criminal law where some version of "We'll get the bastard" was written by law enforcement, and that alone resulted in the termination of an investigation.

The fbi has a duty to investigate violations of our election laws. You claim this investigation is "baseless" like the rest of the trump morons, yet fail to explain how it resulted in so many criminal charges and guilty pleas. I seriously wish one of you would even try to explain how the crooked law enforcement got so lucky with this baseless guess.

You can't expect to be taken seriously when you call a lawful investigation "le resistance" and then cry about people not representing things accurately. Just look at this shit:

I wanna hear "Moscow Mueller" beg for his life.

Yeah, its not Donny Deferment who praises Russia at every turn and openly called on them to impact our elections that deserves that tag; it's the former Marine/Vietnam vet whose dedicated his life to public service who's really in the pocket of Russia. Such a stupid comment.

The fbi has a duty to investigate violations of our election laws. You claim this investigation is "baseless" like the rest of the trump morons, yet fail to explain how it resulted in so many criminal charges and guilty pleas. I seriously wish one of you would even try to explain how the crooked law enforcement got so lucky with this baseless guess.
 
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And this is why we can discount so much of your post, but thanks for needlessly posting a large segment of the criminal code.

Look, I gave you the applicable code sections. I even linked them for you. If you want stick your head in the sand, go ahead. You're repeating talking points from CNN that were debunked months ago. The reality is Mueller's not touching Trump, and Trump is sitting pretty for the foreseeable future.
 
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