Elections Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: Establishment Democrats' Wakeup Call

hello Seano,

hyperbolics aside, i have to disagree.

for all the sturm and drang about how Mr. Trump is rending the nation apart, piece by piece...i don't really see it. the one indelible mark he's left is that he's nominated judges to our courts that are not to my liking.

other than that? not much, really. due to the a number of reasons, the GOP hasn't really passed much legislation on Capitol Hill.

the panic that seems to so exceptional to you seems like business as usual to me. the right was completely unhinged during the Presidency of Kennedy (a catholic POTUS. the insanity!)...of Carter...of Clinton...and of Obama.

jesus...lol. don't you remember the dark warnings of jack booted thugs bashing down doors to take yer guns from ya during the nightmarish eight years of Mr. Obama that you endured? you actually had grown men in army/navy store gear doing jumping jacks and running obstacle courses in state parks, as they readied themselves to fight the Federal Government, hahaha.

how about the hysteria and tooth gnashing that accompanied Mr. Clinton? sure, he got control of the deficit and it was mostly smooth sailing economically....but the MORAL CHARACTER OF THE MAN! ITS TEARING OUR NATION APART!!

how about the crazed reaction of the left to Nixon's presidency? the left called him "Tricky Dick", labeling him untrustworthy of the nation's trust (in this case, the panic was well founded, but whatever).

i've seen this stuff before. its not unique and its not special.

its normal.

- IGIT
Well, I disagree in turn. I recall the Reagan era. Nothing like this happened. I recall the Bush era. Nothing like this happened. Clinton- nope. Bush 2? Nope. Obama? The worst Obama got was the tea party.

Who said "Fuck Reagan" at a highly publicized awards show to roars of approval? No one.

Show me a nation wide tantrum the likes of what has gone on since Trump was elected. Even the hippies were more level headed than this.
 


Tom Perez: "My daughters...were both texting me about their excitement over Alexandria because she represents the future of our party."


Here are some of Ocasio-Cortez's major policy positions:

1. Tuition-free college for all (paid for by the federal government)
2. Medicare for all (paid for by the federal government)
3. Abolish Immigration and Customs Enforcement
4. Jobs for all (paid for by the federal government)
5. Housing for all (paid for by the federal government)
6. Family and sick leave for all (paid for by the federal government)

-------------------------

Realignment is proceeding seamlessly, @Jack V Savage .




So Communism?
 
Greatest countries in the world by most or all metrics are social democracies, prove me wrong.



The greatest country in the world (USA) is a constitutional republic that allows freedom of speech and the right to bear arms against those who wish to try communism one more time.
 
Why millennials are drawn to socialism
Steve Chapman

1400x788

Capitalism has been the most dynamic force for economic progress in history. Over the past century, it has delivered billions of people out of miserable poverty, raised living standards to once-unimaginable heights and enabled an unprecedented flourishing of productive creativity. But among young Americans, it finds itself on trial.

The University of Chicago’s GenForward Survey of Americans age 18 to 34 finds that 62 percent think “we need a strong government to handle today’s complex economic problems,” with just 35 percent saying “the free market can handle these problems without government being involved.”

Overall, 49 percent in this group hold a favorable opinion of capitalism — and 45 percent have a positive view of socialism. Socialism gets higher marks than capitalism, though, from Hispanics, Asian-Americans and African-Americans. Sixty-one percent of Democrats take a positive view of socialism — and so do 25 percent of Republicans.

Contrast the millennials’ opinions with those of their parents. A survey last year found that only 26 percent of baby boomers would prefer to live in a socialist country. Among young people, the figure was 44 percent.

What explains this generational divergence? The first factor is that young adults may take for granted the bounty capitalism has bestowed, from cellphones to inexpensive air travel to an endless array of food and beverage options. They can’t remember the time when those things didn’t exist.

But they will never forget the pain and uncertainty caused by the brutal recession of 2007-09, which has taken years to overcome. Financial catastrophe is bound to foster disenchantment with the economic order.

The Great Depression of the 1930s gave rise to a far more powerful and intrusive federal government — and caused some people to embrace communism. This found an echo in the Great Recession, as a lot of young people reached adulthood in a dismal job market. Their earnings and advancement suffered — and the effects persist.

Many of them associate capitalism with crisis, not progress. That may change as the economy continues expanding. But some of capitalism’s more dogmatic advocates have done it lasting harm.

For eight years, as the economy steadily improved, many Republicans denounced President Barack Obama as a socialist out to demolish the free market. Obama left office with a 77 percent approval rating among millennials. If he was a socialist, many of them must have decided, socialism can’t be so bad.

Without that experience, Bernie Sanders could not have come so close to getting the Democratic nomination in 2016. The socialist label lost much of its stigma from being cynically overused by the right.

The demise of Marxism in so many countries has actually been a boon to the left. Socialism was once seen as the path to communism. But with the Soviet Union dead and China only pretending to be socialist, those fears have faded.

It doesn’t help the reputation of capitalism that many of those fervently opposed to government interference and redistribution are strongly at odds with millennials on social issues — including gay rights, racial inequality, immigration, gun control and abortion rights.

The refusal of most conservatives to recognize the human role in global warming alienates those who will have to live with the environmental damage their elders did. In many minds, free markets have been discredited by their association with intolerance, rejection of science and disregard for the poor.

For baby boomers, the champion of capitalism was Ronald Reagan. For millennials, it’s Donald Trump. Among those who are 15 to 34, a recent poll found, two-thirds disapprove of his performance as president — and most regard him as “dishonest,” “racist” and “mentally unfit.”

What millennials may not realize is that many of the distinctive burdens they face are caused at least as much by government involvement as by free markets. Federal loans and grants have pushed up college tuition. Medicare inflates demand for health care. High housing costs in New York and San Francisco owe a lot to rent control and land-use restrictions.

When markets are allowed to work, they continue to generate innovations that expand options and reduce costs. Amazon, Apple, Uber, Starbucks and Walmart have made life better for consumers. Food and clothing take less of our disposable income than ever before. Cars, TVs and appliances are better and more reliable than they used to be.

In the end, though, economic systems have to retain their moral legitimacy if they are to last. Capitalism has always had to overcome its critics. But today, it may suffer more from its friends.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...oung-socialism-capitalism-20180520-story.html

I agree with the thesis, but think this article really misses some important points. Like the dramatic rise inequality over the last half century in the USA, the mess of the private healthcare system, or the simple fact that markets create wealth but don't solve poverty / always distribute so well. It gets the reduction of global poverty correct, sure but that's not going to redeem the market when you have these other forces at play. It hits one issue head on, the adherents of the free market have jumped the shark so hard that credibility has been undermined. But it goes way beyond calling obama a socialist. The Laffer curve, screaming austerity after a recession, tax cuts during a boom, are just a few examples of where extreme capitalism is arguably not empirically correct. So it's more than just a bunch of millennials that just don't know any better.
 
herro Seano,

Well, I disagree in turn. I recall the Reagan era. Nothing like this happened. I recall the Bush era. Nothing like this happened. Clinton- nope. Bush 2? Nope. Obama? The worst Obama got was the tea party.

Reagan? yep.

Bush2? lol, yep.

Clinton? yarp.

Obama? we really do disagree here. there's a reason why the term Obama Derangement Syndrome was coined during his time in office, you know?

Who said "Fuck Reagan" at a highly publicized awards show to roars of approval? No one.

i didn't know your sensibilities were so delicate, Seano. that an avowed progressive like Deniro would curse our President out and leave an impression on you surprises me. i admit that its not politically correct to do so, but these are the times we live in.

certain folks have made almost a fetish about being politically incorrect - one of them is our nation's leader.
such is life, my friend.

Show me a nation wide tantrum the likes of what has gone on since Trump was elected. Even the hippies were more level headed than this.

nationwide, eh?

you must not be aware of Mr. Trump's approval ratings among the GOP electorate. they are soaring.

- IGIT
 
The greatest country in the world (USA) is a constitutional republic that allows freedom of speech and the right to bear arms against those who wish to try communism one more time.

No its not because its citizens are slaves. Countries that provide opportunities for their citizens: education,health care, paid vacations, etc. are more freer and better.

Guns dont put food on the table for the vast majority of people. Try again.
 
No its not because its citizens are slaves. Countries that provide opportunities for their citizens: education,health care, paid vacations, etc. are more freer and better.

Guns dont put food on the table for the vast majority of people. Try again.


rofl

Fuck outta with your anarcho-communist wet dream.
 
hi there Rob and happy 4th!

yes, right.

the reason Trump's government can't get anything done is that teachers have to scramble in the summers to make ends meet, since they are fired for 2 months out of the year.

- IGIT

I’m not sure if you are trying to be funny or willfully ignored my point.
 
Baby Boomers love socialism if it’s in the form of Medicare, social security and the GI BILL.

They only want it for themselves but when it comes to a sensible UHC plan for America they turn their noses up on the younger people of the country.
 
rofl

Fuck outta with your anarcho-communist wet dream.

Right fuck off back to your zhit hole country where you have to carry a gun eerry day and worry about your company fucking you over

"Greatest country in the world"

Hows it feel to blow all that money on the military and still have China cucking you in Asia???

<Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo><Lmaoo>
 
For the most part I support every one of those. I would not have a problem with half of college being covered by the government or some other middle of the road solution. Universal Health Care and living minimum wage are just plain musts for me too. They are a bottom line for me.

Also its not payed for by the federal government as the TS suggests. Instead it is a bunch of Americans just saying "Hey in the richest country in the world and world history it would be nice if a certain minimum living standard was had for the leaste among us and beyond that minimum standard let people get as rich as they want,"
 
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And let me add as an intensely religious person that if I have to wait for my mostly republican fellow Christians to be the good Samaritan, cloth the needy, feed the poor and treat the sick voluntarily it will NEVER happen.

These are really good Christian policies. It is interesting that my secular friends are more likely to see the good in it......




<LikeReally5>
 
I think his idea is they'll all go home if they can't find jobs due to e-verify. But in reality it's impractical to e-verify every employer, so you're right.

If you slap a fine of 25% of annual revenue for violation, you don't have to ensure every employer is following the rules. They will do so out of fear.
 
No its not because its citizens are slaves. Countries that provide opportunities for their citizens: education,health care, paid vacations, etc. are more freer and better.

Guns dont put food on the table for the vast majority of people. Try again.
I do wonder how someone can be this miserable for this long. I mean you have to be in your forties almost by now. How are you still broke? Seriously. How are you still making the same decisions and expecting different outcomes?

Nobody is a slave here unless you live outside your means and have to work three jobs to pay for it
 
Greatest countries in the world by most or all metrics are social democracies, prove me wrong.
Feel free to populate the list of successful socialist countries. I’ll be waiting.
 
I know you think slapping on the "socialist" label to her name is a good tactic, but once the boomer fucks of the Rush Limbaugh generation die off, socialist policies will flourish.
capitalismvssocialism.png

stronggovernment.png


As you can see, across the board Americans are more accepting of socialism. Whites are the only demographic that favored capitalism to socialism because they have the oldest average age and still harbor a Cold War mindset. But that's rapidly changing with the younger generation.

And yes, you should fear Ocasio-Cortez because she is just the first of many.
So what you are saying is that demographics are destiny? That non-whites and whites have fundamentally different value systems? The majority of white male millennials identify as republicans, you did know that right? That inviting in people of different ethnicities is destroying the US culture?
 
  • China
  • Denmark
  • Finland
  • Netherlands
  • Canada
  • Sweden
  • Norway
  • Ireland
  • New Zealand
  • Belgium
As a light weight socialist, let me run down this list.

China - maybe the most ruthless totalitarian state in the history of the world.
Denmark/Norway/Finland - Closest thing to a win on your list. There are many functional government structures I would take from these three. Of course they are overwhelmingly ethnically pure and tiny which lends itself to social unity and dramatically reduces corruption. Norway is also an oil state with the third largest sovereign wealth fund in the world and Finland is so inhospitable that refugees from the middle east asked to go back rather then stay (because of the weather and the Fins actually requiring them to work)
Netherlands - Perhaps the most pure fascist state in the history of humanity. It works for them but by Mussolini's description they are a merger of the corporate and the government to an extreme. They are extremely conservative and they are also hyper rational. They are not who western socialists should be talking about if they want to push socialism.
Canada - Again no, Canada ranks 9th on the economic freedom index (the US ranks 18th) and has Alberta a province which has for all intents and purposes been owned by the oil industry for 50 years. Don't confuse rhetoric with reality.
Sweden - Literally a failed state. They are about to start slashing social programs because they are completely broke. I wonder how all those 2 million immigrants who have been living off welfare are going to take it when their checks stop arriving.
Ireland - Ireland has taken a hard turn to the right, they are 6th on the economic freedom index and have been at odds with the EU quite regularly over their hand outs to corporations. Social support in Ireland is not even good much less "socialist".
New Zealand - One of the most libertarian economic policies ever since they declared bankruptcy. Very complex situation in New Zealand. Quite frankly probably beyond your ability to comprehend.
Belgium - The heart of the EU, subsidized so heavily by its position as the EU's center that its not really possible to make any judgments on it one way or the other.

Your list is terrible. I think that there are many programs that should be run socially (by the government), such as healthcare. But there are very few examples of socialism working for any length of time because most socialists are just lazy people looking for hand outs.
 
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