Why do BJJ instructors commonly downplay Strength and Conditioning?

ChrisK1 said:
The reason Marcelo doesn't do S&C in particular is that he doesn't want to take away from his time on the mats..
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Didn't Marcel try doing S&C, observe that it had zero benefit for him and stop doing it?
 
I think if more people periodized their training, they could fit in more S+C and see benefits from it. I'm considering some sort of mesocycle situation myself right now, with months of different days/week balance between gym training and skills-based BJJ training.

It's also a risk/reward situation, though. If you're a 40-year-old hobbyist and you start deadlifting and get injured, then can't train BJJ for six months... you won't be pleased.
 
Legendary said:
If skill was the only thing that mattered then 50+ year old multiple degree black belts would be tapping 30 year old black belts, but that simply is not the case. Marcelo is famous for stating that all of his training is sport specific, but only fought MMA once. There are some people who have evolved, but how come the vast majority of BJJ schools will tell you that BJJ is all you need and commonly downplay the benefits of Strength and Conditioning? A Jon Jones could beat 99% of all BJJ practitioners in a real self defense situation and he is a white belt.
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Because the guy who sits behind the computer or the hobbyist just wants to come in, sweat and feel good about themselves. If you are a serious competitor then it is crucial you do S&C.

As stated above it’s marketing and making things easy for the hobbyist.
 
tekkenfan said:
dean also gasses almost at every adcc not the bets guy to listen to when it comes to cardio conditioning
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Dean was (not sure if he is, maybe he quit) a super hard drinker.
BTW. lot of elite level BJJers do only the S part of S&C.
 
What’s S&C


Strength and conditioning???
 
You can be a world champion and never do any strength and conditioning. The only thing less important is diet.
 
My coach always says that if you want to compete, what we do in the gym isn't enough.

For the strenght part, it depends a lot on where you range in strenght with your training partners or people in your weight class. If you're in the middle of the pack or slightly above Strenght training won't give you that much upgrade if you get a little bit stronger. I'm pretty sure that having a better technique or more training time will serve you better. If you're not following on the strenght side and get always overpowered that's another thing, you need to get on par with everyone and get those gains.


For the cardio part it's pretty much the same thing, if you can't finish your round and give a good effort for 5-10 minutes, you need to do something to catch up. But I think that rolling more will be the best thing to upgrade your cardio. The cardio for grappling is so different from running, cycling or any other cardio. Sure interval training will help, but if you don't roll a lot, it won't do that much good.
 
Strength and conditioning is overrated

Maybe good for grappling but it slows you down when you're striking. As long as you're in above average shape and not weird in any way (super short, lanky, or lacking a limb) you can wreck most people with technique
 
My grappling has improved tremendously since i stopped putting so much emphasis on S & C. I do kettlebell and calisthenics mostly now. I will do some big lifts once a month to maintain strength. I was all about lifting heavy and finding the best “weight training for grapplers” routines but my progression in bjj moved slowly. Doing the actual sport it self is what will make you improve the most in those sports. The S & C program needs to be just a supplement to that sport but not interfere with the sport training. For example if you burn your body out doing max weight deadlifts and are recovering the rest of the week from that and cant train the sport as much how was that helpful to the sport itself? If you look at high level grapplers, wrestlers, judo, jiu jitsu guys for the most part they have well built strong bodies and are great at the sport they are in. That isnt because they all magically figured out the best weightlifting routine to do, its because they put in countless hours doing the art or sport they are in.
 
beat...people...up? said:
I think if more people periodized their training, they could fit in more S+C and see benefits from it. I'm considering some sort of mesocycle situation myself right now, with months of different days/week balance between gym training and skills-based BJJ training.

It's also a risk/reward situation, though. If you're a 40-year-old hobbyist and you start deadlifting and get injured, then can't train BJJ for six months... you won't be pleased.
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I'm interested in periodization but I think it's designed for competing (elite) athletes, taking into consideration importance of events, off/in season, etc.

I train year round and and don't compete like most people. I don't know if periodization would even be necessary for someone like me when it's designed for peaking for competition.

I just want to not be jacked up 10 years from now.
 
Normot said:
The only thing less important is diet.
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Being lean reduces the advantage that roided out people have over you in BJJ competition a lot.
If you are fat and they are all lean muscle it's a lot harder to deal with.
 
yetanother said:
Being lean reduces the advantage that roided out people have over you in BJJ competition a lot.
If you are fat and they are all lean muscle it's a lot harder to deal with.
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Being lean is important, that's why you should have the types of genetics that allow you to eat whatever you want and still be lean.
https://www.bjjee.com/articles/will-skittles-make-you-better-at-jiu-jitsu/

I personally need to watch my diet and strength train to maximize my BJJ, In fact I need to do it just to be marginally attractive to the opposite sex. That's why I'm not a world champ.
 
It really is fascinating how much of a perspective working with coaches outside the “traditional” martial arts and in ‘some’ cases wrestling wrestling circles gives you. Especially working with elite strength coaches whose job is performance not marketing and they lose their job if they aren’t producing. As well as with football, soccer and basketball coaches who aren’t caught up in bullshit about evaluating skill and athleticism, and whose jobs are also dependent on actual results.

First of all, pointing to genetic freaks or super athletic people like Marcelo as your “proof” you don’t need to do S & C is... nebulous at best. And before anyone tries to claim Marcelo isn’t athletic or that I’m somehow “dissing” his technique.. First, he has brilliant technique. Second, as so many pointed out when they lost their shit when I talked about why the US didn’t do well in Soccer.. there are different types of athleticism and Marcelo is definitely high in several of those categories.

Second of all, 90% of the strength and conditioning people try and don’t get results from is not effective anyway.

Strength and conditioning definitely helps, but it has to be done correctly. As long as grappling is a niche thing I don’t know how often it’ll get done properly
 
I encourage conditioning certainly and strength as well but at a certain age you start to get tendinitis and other overuse injuries if you lift too heavy
 
jack36767 said:
It really is fascinating how much of a perspective working with coaches outside the “traditional” martial arts and in ‘some’ cases wrestling wrestling circles gives you. Especially working with elite strength coaches whose job is performance not marketing and they lose their job if they aren’t producing. As well as with football, soccer and basketball coaches who aren’t caught up in bullshit about evaluating skill and athleticism, and whose jobs are also dependent on actual results.
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Getting access to elite strength coaches is hard. It's not obvious to me how to distinguish excellent training from something that will just injure me.
If I had access to Kyle Snyder S&C coach I would give him a try, I did stuff for shoulder mobility he had on flo grappling and it helped me a lot (everyone at the BJJ gym was laughing their asses off when I did them after training). It sucks having to release a single leg when I have enough strength just because of the lack of flexibility.
Training under some random personal coach at the gym seems super dubious for me. Plenty of idiots took some roids and they think they are qualified.
 
yetanother said:
Getting access to elite strength coaches is hard. It's not obvious to me how to distinguish excellent training from something that will just injure me.
If I had access to Kyle Snyder S&C coach I would give him a try, I did stuff for shoulder mobility he had on flo grappling and it helped me a lot (everyone at the BJJ gym was laughing their asses off when I did them after training). It sucks having to release a single leg when I have enough strength just because of the lack of flexibility.
Training under some random personal coach at the gym seems super dubious for me. Plenty of idiots took some roids and they think they are qualified.
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I didn’t say that it was easy to find one. I got lucky and found a strength coach who trained David Taylor in my city.

My point is that saying strength and conditioning isn’t helpful or necessary because of the reasons stated on this thread are not correct
 
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