Boxing vs Kickboxing for MMA

[tekkenfan]

if someoen

Well from what I have seen at the amateur level pure boxers have the hardest time translating to mma of all the combat sports.

Learning kickboxing and then working hands and headmovement later seems like a recipe for success for a lot of strikers I know

Boxing has a ton of bad habits and things that just aren’t applicable when you have to stand out of takedown and kicking range. At the amateur level you’re literally only going to be in pure boxing range for 2 seconds at most before you end up backing out into kicking range or clinching.

Unless you have an explosive blitzing style of boxing like Pacquiao to cover distance I have seen a ton of boxers in for rude awakenings.

Like it or not but distance control is one of the most crucial aspects of mma.

And in amateur mma clinch fighting is barely a thing. You need to worry about takedowns first and that is why wall-n-stall is so boring.
And while you are trying to rabbit punch me from over-under you will be eating knees to the body and legs and possibly an elbow or two.

s trying to rabbit punch you from over/under they shouldnt be fighting anyways thats something you learn doesnt work when you first spar much less trying that in a fight

 

[tekkenfan]

yeah

Interesting stance. I don't believe boxing has bad habits for fighting in any arena. Some you'll use some you won't depending on the fight. Boxers don't even fight boxers all the same way, otherwise they'll get exposed for being one dimensional. Anything can be a bad habit out of context. BJJ is a bad habit if you can't get the fight to the ground.

I don't think your hands have to be at the elite level to succeed in MMA because of all the other ranges as you mentioned. I wouldn't say they have the hardest time. I've seen pure bjj guys who were reputable struggle when they found someone who wasn't going to play their game.

Ribeiro? Got smoked in punching range 22secs into the first round. His two wins came from applying RNC. Outside of his range he was toast, and he is world class in his own style.

Boxing is not as structured as people believe. There are different styles. Different methods would apply better in different situations. The speculation game is hard to play. It can go either way.

Toney lost to Couture
Mercer sparked Sylvia
Holm outboxed Ronda
….there are more examples for either way, but the takeaway is that it goes either way.

I think you should specialize and learn to defend against what you are great at.

Perhaps if you are pure then yes you can be taken off guard. However, if you're in MMA and have a serious training camp you're no longer pure in anything. Fighting is about making adjustments to what is presented. If you remain pure you're probability of failure is higher.

I agree that supplementing with boxing will be beneficial if you have a base, especially in kickboxing.

boxings a very good base for mma the problem is boxing has no real rankings so youll get these fake ass "coaches" who arnt technical at all training guys who can only teach basic punches but not proper movement and distance management ect also depends on the guys style of boxing as well

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

If someone shoots someone in the head with a G17 it doesn't matter if they were chambering a Kamehameha, they're still dead. lol. I would feel more threatened by the guy who has one gun and practices with that thing until it becomes an extension of his arm than the guy who has a gun rack full of different weapons. One bullet can kill ya, just as one shot can floor ya. Therefore, everyone is dangerous imo.

 

[dudeguyman]

Wrestling is the best base for MMA point blank. There is no discussion about this.
Kickboxing is better than boxing for MMA, simply because you have 4 weapons compared to 2.
Who would fare better in a gunfight, the guy with a Glock 17 as a primary weapon or the guy with dual Berettas and a pump-action shotgun?

The guy who spends more time with his guns.
Sorry I'll leave now lol

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I agree

The problem with these types of questions are that it ends up being style vs style and there isn't a clear winner.

It comes down to a fighters ablity to execute a gameplan and being able to adapt when needed.

Absolutely. Fighting is not rock, paper, scissors.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

The guy who spends more time with his guns.
Sorry I'll leave now lol

If the guy is James Bond level with his pistol I'm not pulling anything on him. Just do as he says lol. Repetition is key in so many different ways.

 

[Killashaw]

If someone shoots someone in the head with a G17 it doesn't matter if they were chambering a Kamehameha, they're still dead. lol. I would feel more threatened by the guy who has one gun and practices with that thing until it becomes an extension of his arm than the guy who has a gun rack full of different weapons. One bullet can kill ya, just as one shot can floor ya. Therefore, everyone is dangerous imo.

 

[Killashaw]

The guy who spends more time with his guns.
Sorry I'll leave now lol

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I think I understand your argument, and respect what you said. It comes from having more options available, and being able to lay down suppressive fire (I believe you mentioned a shotgun?).

Taking that argument and applying it to fighting. If you shoot, and shoot and shoot with all of these different options, and I am effectively able to cover, my one shot from my G17 can take you out of the game.

It is the same thought process when it comes to fighting. You can strike and strike from all these different methods and overwhelm me, yes. However, one well placed shot can stop your offensive. It happens all the time in fighting.

 

[Killashaw]

I think I understand your argument, and respect what you said. It comes from having more options available, and being able to lay down suppressive fire (I believe you mentioned a shotgun?).

Taking that argument and applying it to fighting. If you shoot, and shoot and shoot with all of these different options, and I am effectively able to cover, my one shot from my G17 can take you out of the game.

It is the same thought process when it comes to fighting. You can strike and strike from all these different methods and overwhelm me, yes. However, one well placed shot can stop your offensive. It happens all the time in fighting.

The odds are stacked against you though.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

The odds are stacked against you though.

Odds? Okay, I'll respect your view but pertaining to our original topic boxing may have something to offer you considering the following:

"About half of all UFC fights will end inside the distance, but far more so by TKO than by submission. The finish rate for 2017 was right at 50 percent, thanks to 146 KO/TKOs and 80 submissions."

(http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/22277062/how-mma-fights-end-submission-victories-way-down)

 

[j123]

h

how many guys do you see doing that when do you ever see guys use judo throws on the % of leg takedowns? you have to have done judo your whole life to be able to do that at a high level if u trained mma ud know that theres a reason leg shots are the most used and successful takedown

To be fair in their defense, its purely gi, without the grips the throws lose alot of its force.

I prefer wrestling as its always been more natural and intuitve for me, but I can see why Judoka's success in MMA is a bit... niche

 

[tekkenfan]

To be fair in their defense, its purely gi, without the grips the throws lose alot of its force.

I prefer wrestling as its always been more natural and intuitve for me, but I can see why Judoka's success in MMA is a bit... niche

its the same as bjj when you take off the gi alot of the stuff goes out the window same with judo alot of throws lose there power guys who dont understand this obviously do not train with decent people i prefer doubles body locks and head arm snapdowns thats a move u dont see enough of ben askren and dc does them alot especially against the wall when guys power there base and head to defend the legs i jump on the head to snap them down theres 3 types of takedowns the legs body and head most people dont ever attack the head

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

its the same as bjj when you take off the gi alot of the stuff goes out the window same with judo alot of throws lose there power guys who dont understand this obviously do not train with decent people i prefer doubles body locks and head arm snapdowns thats a move u dont see enough of ben askren and dc does them alot especially against the wall when guys power there base and head to defend the legs i jump on the head to snap them down theres 3 types of takedowns the legs body and head most people dont ever attack the head

I love head snap downs, because of my height and long limbs. Shooting is so telegraphed because of my body type and when you get stuffed it is draining.

Transitioning from gi to no gi is different in itself. Trading grip fighting for under and over hooks can throw you off. You have to be tighter in your approach because you can't just drag someone by a collar or sleeve no gi. Or hold on to stall there momentum. Body sweat makes people far more elusive, especially standing.

 

[tekkenfan]

lots of ways to get to the hadsnap down in mma i love doing it againstt he fence

I love head snap downs, because of my height and long limbs. Shooting is so telegraphed because of my body type and when you get stuffed it is draining.

Transitioning from gi to no gi is different in itself. Trading grip fighting for under and over hooks can throw you off. You have to be tighter in your approach because you can't just drag someone by a collar or sleeve no gi. Or hold on to stall there momentum. Body sweat makes people far more elusive, especially standing.

its like striking go to body to get the hand slow then go back up stairs same with takedowns attack at legs so they lower base and give you the neck to snap onto which then makes them rise back up to get the legs again ect once more guys realize this concept the takedown game will get better

yeah sweat makes singles hard to hold to me if i dont get the guy down froma single within 4 seconds i go to the body lock doubles and body locks and head arm snapdowns sweat doesnt really make much difference

 

[Killashaw]

Odds? Okay, I'll respect your view but pertaining to our original topic boxing may have something to offer you considering the following:

"About half of all UFC fights will end inside the distance, but far more so by TKO than by submission. The finish rate for 2017 was right at 50 percent, thanks to 146 KO/TKOs and 80 submissions."

(http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/22277062/how-mma-fights-end-submission-victories-way-down)

If you want to use statistics check out how many of the current champions are wrestlers.
Only 2 champions are pure strikers with good takedown defense. Which is also defensive wrestling.
So wrestling is the best base for MMA upon which you can build and shape out your skillset.
Also search for how many fights end up on the ground or in a clinch at one point mr statistics.
Kickboxing beats boxing any day of the week (considering the skill level and physical measurements of both fighters are similar)

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

If you want to use statistics check out how many of the current champions are wrestlers.
Only 2 champions are pure strikers with good takedown defense. Which is also defensive wrestling.
So wrestling is the best base for MMA upon which you can build and shape out your skillset.
Also search for how many fights end up on the ground or in a clinch at one point mr statistics.
Kickboxing beats boxing any day of the week (considering the skill level and physical measurements of both fighters are similar)

But how many of those champions are pure wrestlers? MMA is mixed, everyone mixes their game.

Striking has its own venues. Why would you devote all of your time to becoming a high level boxer(Olympics, Nationals, Golden Gloves) and then fight in MMA? McGregor didn't even make his highest purse in fighting until he went to boxing. People do want to get paid for the hard work they've put in.

You don't see high level boxing in MMA minus a couple of outliers, and they are usually past their prime in boxing, if not retired.

You see high level wrestling as you've said quite frequently. That is the pool of talent that goes to MMA. Beyond college what avenue did wrestlers have before MMA came on the scene? The ones who did continue wrestling often times found themselves in the WWF/WWE.

More wrestling does not prove superiority, more wrestling proves there are more wrestlers who go to MMA. I believe people misconstrue what they are looking at for the wrestler argument.

However, feel as you wish to feel about the subject.

 

[Killashaw]

But how many of those champions are pure wrestlers? MMA is mixed, everyone mixes their game.

Striking has its own venues. Why would you devote all of your time to becoming a high level boxer(Olympics, Nationals, Golden Gloves) and then fight in MMA? McGregor didn't even make his highest purse in fighting until he went to boxing. People do want to get paid for the hard work they've put in.

You don't see high level boxing in MMA minus a couple of outliers, and they are usually past their prime in boxing, if not retired.

You see high level wrestling as you've said quite frequently. That is the pool of talent that goes to MMA. Beyond college what avenue did wrestlers have before MMA came on the scene? The ones who did continue wrestling often times found themselves in the WWF/WWE.

More wrestling does not prove superiority, more wrestling proves there are more wrestlers who go to MMA. I believe people misconstrue what they are looking at for the wrestler argument.

However, feel as you wish to feel about the subject.

I see no part of your post where you disputed my statement that wrestling is the best base for mma. I just see a lot of boring text that I'm not going to read.

 

[FightGuyOpenMind]

I see no part of your post where you disputed my statement that wrestling is the best base for mma. I just see a lot of boring text that I'm not going to read.

The outcomes presented in MMA are based on the pool of talent that they have. No high level boxers have ever fought MMA in their prime outside of Holly Holm. Even she was doing MMA post a boxing career. Boxers go to boxing at the pro levels. Wrestlers got to MMA at the pro levels. You'll see wrestling dominance because that is what is there at high levels, not boxing.

If you don't understand beyond that, then I don't know what else to say. Never underestimate the G17 however, it is still lethal.

 

[Killashaw]

The outcomes presented in MMA are based on the pool of talent that they have. No high level boxers have ever fought MMA in their prime outside of Holly Holm. Even she was doing MMA post a boxing career. Boxers go to boxing at the pro levels. Wrestlers got to MMA at the pro levels. You'll see wrestling dominance because that is what is there at high levels, not boxing.

If you don't understand beyond that, then I don't know what else to say. Never underestimate the G17 however, it is still lethal.

Boxers just don't want to get a shin bone to their orbital bone my friend.
That's why they stay their ass in a ring where you can only strike with your fists.