"Apartment Patty" and similar stories of alleged racism are nonsense and need to stop

[Leagon]

Being petty. I didn't say she was the good guy and he was the bad guy, but I believe her reasoning was valid. What she initially did was not wrong. She saw someone she didn't know trying to enter the building she lives in. I'm not going to vilify her for showing concern. Was it because he was black? Maybe, but jumping to that conclusion as a default is exhausting and makes us look like constant victims and really doesn't help anything IMO. Again, if people just communicated with each other with a bit of respect, none of this would be an issue.

No offense, but I think you're being a bit naive. Yes, if people just communicated to each other with respect, this wouldn't be an issue. But some people are shitty, some people are racist, some people are predatory, and some people are, as you said, petty.

This is like popping into a thread about the Holocaust and saying, "well if some people just didn't want to exterminate others, this wouldn't have happened." Okay, and?

 

[Leagon]

I have absolutely no problem with conceding that an unknown woman may be treated with the same suspicion.

However, considering that most crime and violence is committed by men, it would make sense that women would be more "prejudiced" against men in this regard, than the opposite.

This treatment is something that all men are accustomed to, as a result of the greater level of physicality that they are capable of possessing. When they walk into a new environment, their "threat level" will be estimated by those that they are unknown to.

But when it happens across race lines, the motive is automatically assumed to be race-based, rather than simply a result of the tensions that exist between a physically stronger male and the relatively weaker woman.

By introducing the racial element, and hammering home the point that one must not be suspicious of a person of another race, as it is an example of racism, we inadvertently foster situations where women become defenseless and vulnerable against the people that they are not allowed to be "racist" (or rather, suspicious) towards. In a top-down controlled society like my own, it is especially troubling, and results in unfortunate and needless situations as a result of naiveté and blind faith into society's new imposed standards, as well as the fear of punishment for acting differently.

You're not responding to my question. Instead, you're writing essays in response to my conversation with another poster. See below:

What evidence do you have that women were afraid of you or mistreated you because you are a man?

 

[all caps]

It was intense and highly systemic. The goal of boarding schools as a matter of function was to process as many students as possible, so large portions of the young native population were rinsed through. Part of the reason native society today has so many problems is because it was forcefully built at least partially on a broken platform. The self loathing and internal racism created huge identity issues that rolled together with scarcity of resources to drive people away from who they were/are. In my gradma's place & generation, for example, you definitely tried to get away with passing for white if at all possible. And that still goes on to some degree. I've seen it many times in the kids I work with.

It's crazy to read something like this and not believe this is happening in every aspect of our society to this day.

 

[dontsnitch]

..."I think, therefore I am." This is pretty fundamental to epistemology.

That's fine if you think I'm an asshole for assuming, but interpersonal communication break down immediately if, as you seem to be suggesting, one cannot be correct about another person's internal thoughts based on said person's behavior. I mean, have you considered the possibility that you raped everyone woman you've ever had sex with? Or can we assume that their behavior indicated the sex was consensual? Would I be an asshole for assuming you're not a rapist?

I don't think you're an asshole, I simply think that you can't really know with any deal of certainty that this woman is racist. I'm okay if you believe it based on your own persona experiences, that in itself works as evidence, it's just a weak type of evidence that will often leave you with an incorrect conclusion.

I've been in this exact same situation, wondering if someone treated me poorly because of my race. It would be foolish for me to conclude that without additional information. Sometimes people act like assholes because they are, and not because they're racist.

 

[Leagon]

This thread is about how it's stupid to assume racism and you all are trying to get me to also assume that people are racist against themselves and their spouses? Ridiculous. You can give up now because I'm not going along with that nonsense.

You've turned off your brain and are being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, I guess.

Generally, threads are better if people are trying to actually understand each other, not just disagree for the sake of disagreement. It's clear that you aren't even trying to understand what these other posters are trying to explain to you. You're just assuming they're all dumb and that you know better.

Cool. Best of luck with that.

 

[Leagon]

I don't think you're an asshole, I simply think that you can't really know with any deal of certainty that this woman is racist. I'm okay if you believe it based on your own persona experiences, that in itself works as evidence, it's just a weak type of evidence that will often leave you with an incorrect conclusion.

I've been in this exact same situation, wondering if someone treated me poorly because of my race. It would be foolish for me to conclude that without additional information. Sometimes people act like assholes because they are, and not because they're racist.

I've never called the woman a racist. I generally don't accuse people of that stuff. It's a vague word and is meaningless in most contexts. Abraham Lincoln was almost definitely a racist by today's standards. Malcolm X supported racial segregation. Are both of them racists? Does it matter?

I think some actions are motivated by conscious or unconscious racial bias. You're arguing that I cant know for sure which actions are motivated by what, and I agree. But if we want to live in your proposed world where social interactions must be based on empirical certainty rather than probable reason, I think that you should start calling your exes and apologizing for raping them.

 

[dontsnitch]

I've never called the woman a racist. I generally don't accuse people of that stuff. It's a vague word and is meaningless in most contexts. Abraham Lincoln was almost definitely a racist by today's standards. Malcolm X supported racial segregation. Are both of them racists? Does it matter?

I think some actions are motivated by conscious or unconscious racial bias. You're arguing that I cant know for sure which actions are motivated by what, and I agree. But if we want to live in your proposed world where social interactions must be based on empirical certainty rather than probable reason, I think that you should start calling your exes and apologizing for raping them.

I understand your point, I agree we make conclusions in life without all the available data, I'm not criticizing that per se, it's human, but there is a middle ground. Jumping to conclusions can be just as dangerous as refusing to form an opinion. There's a happy middle there.

 

[TheGreatA]

You're not responding to my question. Instead, you're writing essays in response to my conversation with another poster. See below:

What evidence do you have that women were afraid of you or mistreated you because you are a man?

I did not say that they were outright afraid or that I was necessarily mistreated.

I'm saying that I have, on many occasions, been treated with suspicion by women, particularly older women, looking to know whether I was up to no good, or if I was capable of carrying myself as a responsible citizen.

It did not necessarily happen specifically because I am a man, but rather, because as a man I have more physical capabilities than most women. A sufficiently large enough woman, who carries themselves in a certain way, may encounter the same level of suspicion.

The person with less physical capabilities does himself or herself a favour by leaving some room for doubt regarding those that have more.

The evidence that I have is people, that I have later gotten to know better, remarking that they may have been initially thrown off by my appearance, regarding me as a potential cause for trouble. It is a habit of mine, to never make a good first impression. As for "why" that is, I do not really care. Whether it is because I'm a man, or because I look like a Mongol horselord from the 14th century, the point is, that as a man, you need to get over yourself as well as any prejudices held against you (usually for pretty good reasons), with your own standard of behaviour.

I'm not really in the business of encouraging people to lower their defenses, just for my behalf. I do not need to.

 

[Hog-train]

I don't think you're an asshole, I simply think that you can't really know with any deal of certainty that this woman is racist. I'm okay if you believe it based on your own persona experiences, that in itself works as evidence, it's just a weak type of evidence that will often leave you with an incorrect conclusion.

I've been in this exact same situation, wondering if someone treated me poorly because of my race. It would be foolish for me to conclude that without additional information. Sometimes people act like assholes because they are, and not because they're racist.

But all of that makes zero difference.

Because this lady could have been fired for simply acting like an asshole and it came out publicly.

She got fired from her job - not criminally prosecuted or anything.

So there is no need to "prove" racism. She could have been fired for acting like an a-hole, giving the "impression" of racism, bad optics, bad publicity or literally ANY reason.

 

[WandySaku2]

No offense, but I think you're being a bit naive. Yes, if people just communicated to each other with respect, this wouldn't be an issue. But some people are shitty, some people are racist, some people are predatory, and some people are, as you said, petty.

This is like popping into a thread about the Holocaust and saying, "well if some people just didn't want to exterminate others, this wouldn't have happened." Okay, and?

It's not about being naive and again, what she did was the right thing to do, the holocaust, not so much. It's the fact that even if this was an act of racial prejudice, it could have been handled in a better way by both parties and had a positive outcome. We assume racism because we want to, plain and simple. It could just as easily have been because he was a man, or maybe it was because he was a stranger...why just aim for the lowest common denominator and assume the worst?

Dude, I'm black, and I've seen real, racism that actually affects the quality of peoples lives. What I see in this situation is a woman doing what, again, was the correct action, take it too far and a guy who instead of taking the high road, went the 'social media victim' route. They both escalated what could have been a moment of two neighbors getting to know each other and turned it into ridiculous national news. That's why I call this exhausting. It's the world we live in, unfortunately.

 

[dontsnitch]

But all of that makes zero difference.

Because this lady could have been fired for simply acting like an asshole and it came out publicly.

She got fired from her job - not criminally prosecuted or anything.

So there is no need to "prove" racism. She could have been fired for acting like an a-hole, giving the "impression" of racism, bad optics, bad publicity or literally ANY reason.

I haven't argued otherwise.

 

[superpunch]

I did not say that they were outright afraid or that I was necessarily mistreated.

I'm saying that I have, on many occasions, been treated with suspicion by women, particularly older women, looking to know whether I was up to no good, or if I was capable of carrying myself as a responsible citizen.

It did not necessarily happen specifically because I am a man, but rather, because as a man I have more physical capabilities than most women. A sufficiently large enough woman, who carries themselves in a certain way, may encounter the same level of suspicion.

The person with less physical capabilities does himself or herself a favour by leaving some room for doubt regarding those that have more.

The evidence that I have is people, that I have later gotten to know better, remarking that they may have been initially thrown off by my appearance, regarding me as a potential cause for trouble. It is a habit of mine, to never make a good first impression. As for "why" that is, I do not really care. Whether it is because I'm a man, or because I look like a Mongol horselord from the 14th century, the point is, that as a man, you need to get over yourself as well as any prejudices held against you (usually for pretty good reasons), with your own standard of behaviour.

I'm not really in the business of encouraging people to lower their defenses, just for my behalf. I do not need to.

It's an interesting double standard.

Men commit most rapes. So, women are suspicious of random men at night. And that's OK.

Black men commit most murders. But it's evil to be suspicious of random black men at night.

Why's there a double standard?

(just playing devil's advocate, I don't hate black men lmao)

 

[Leagon]

I understand your point, I agree we make conclusions in life without all the available data, I'm not criticizing that per se, it's human, but there is a middle ground. Jumping to conclusions can be just as dangerous as refusing to form an opinion. There's a happy middle there.

Fair.

 

[Leagon]

I did not say that they were outright afraid or that I was necessarily mistreated.

I'm saying that I have, on many occasions, been treated with suspicion by women, particularly older women, looking to know whether I was up to no good, or if I was capable of carrying myself as a responsible citizen.

It did not necessarily happen specifically because I am a man, but rather, because as a man I have more physical capabilities than most women.

Where. Is. Your. Evidence?

 

[jx820]

all he had to do was politely show her his key.

Had to? Does he owe her that? Maybe he could have given her a "yes'm" and cowered in deference to her authority?

I can honest to God say I've never had to prove my address to my neighbors. If one of them asked me to prove my residence I'd probably respond worse than that.

Maybe this lady has a great answer as to why she thought he was suspicious, and why she thought she had the authority to tell him what he can and can't do, why this guy has to throw himself on her tender mercies so he can go home. Maybe her neighbors have a term in their lease that they have to present this lady with proof of residence on request...

She should try to make that known, because most people believe the simplest answer makes the most sense. So most people when they see a white woman make a snap judgement of a black man and then try to impose her percieved authority over him, they're going to see racism.

I'd genuinely like to hear her perspective on it though, and if she has been out there making a case for those points, then I have to conceed her voice isn't being carried like his in this scenario.

 

[Leagon]

Also, how tf did she get called "Apartment Patty" instead of "Apartment Amy"? It's a better name AND she's an Amy Schumer doppleganger.

 

[oldshadow]

Did you watch the video at all? Everything you've said in this thread has already been explained. He did show her the key. You're just trying to find anything you can to white knight for some woman you'll never know.

I couldn't get it to play for me. I'm going buy what I read. I still don't see it as racist.

However if he showed his key and let himself in then she should have dropped it.

 

[HomerThompson]

Racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist,racist.

The content of a lot of people's posts over here.

Get the fuck over yourselves. You sound pathetic.

If you're a man and you actually look like a man, you're probably used to people being a bit suspicious about you, a little bit intimidated perhaps, not sure if you're up to any good. Got nothing to do with race, but rather your physical capabilities. Nobody's worried about anybody who looks like they probably can't do shit.

We live in a pathetic state of the universe when people cannot take this in stride.

You should keep walking with your head up, knowing that people stay on their toes when dealing with you. It is preferable to the alternative.

You sound ugly.

 

[Culombo]

I think she wanted the d .. didn't she get into an elevator with the guy even though she was 'scared' of him ? lol

 

[Leagon]

I couldn't get it to play for me. I'm going buy what I read. I still don't see it as racist.

However if he showed his key and let himself in then she should have dropped it.

Watch the video.

He explains on video that he keyed the door open. He shows her his key several times. He mentions, by name, the building owner/manager.

Stop saying "I still don't see it as racist" if you haven't actually "seen" anything. That doesn't make any sense and it diminishes your credibility.