Ethnicity and Muslims in Europe - The numbers

Sano

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With all the muslim threads going on constantly and frankly bizarre numbers being thrown around, I thought I would finally take the time to look into the statistics. This thread is not about whether the muslim ideology is good or bad. Personally, I dislike fundamentalism in all shapes and forms and it's no secret the muslim faith has substantial amount of that. However, the figures often mentioned does not always comport with reality. This is purely to put some of the misinformation to rest.

THE CURRENT STATE OF MUSLIMS IN EUROPE

Demographics of Northern and Central European Countries

Ireland
Ethnicity
: 82,2% White Irish, 9,5% white other
Religion: 92.0% christian, 6.2% unaffiliated, 1.4% muslim
(1, 2)

United Kingdom
Ethnicity
: 87% White British
Religion: 59% christian, 25% unaffiliated and 4-6% muslim
(1, 3).

Sweden
Ethnicity
: 75,9% Swedish
Religion: 67% christian, 27% unaffiliated, 4,6-8% muslim

About 76 are ethnically Swedish, and immigration is on a sharp decline, with Syrian refugees being down 34% from last year. Add to that 2% of the population are foreign born from Africa and 4,2% from the middle east which here include: Iran, Irak, Afghanistan and Syria (1, 4, 5, 6).

Denmark
Ethnicity
: 87% Danish
Religion: 84,5% christian, 11,8% unaffiliated, 4-5,3% muslim

Non-western ethnicity including second generation accounts for about 7% of the population.
(7, 8).

Norway
Ethnicity
: 84% Norweigan
Religion: 84,7% christian, 10,1% unaffiliated, 4% muslim
(9, 10).

Germany
Ethnicity
: 80% German, 90% European
Religon: 68.7% christian, 24.7% unaffiliated, 5.8-6,1% muslim
(1, 11)

France
Ethnicity
: 89% French
Religion: 63.0% christian, 28% unaffiliated, 7.5%-9% muslim
(1,12, 12(2))

Belgium
Ethnicity
: 75-85% Belgian
Religion: 64.2% christian, 29% unaffiliated, 5.9% muslim.
(1, 13, 14)

European Union Total
Ethnicity:
92,5% European
Religion: 74,5% Christian, 18.8% Unaffiliated and 4,9% Muslim

On average 74~% are christian, 18.8% unaffiliated and 5.9% muslim. This includes countries like Albania and Kosovo which are almost exclusively muslim (80-90%). They are however not migrants or refugees. The European Union (EU), which is a better representation, has a population of 4,9% muslims. EU citizens are 92,5% ethnically European (1, 9-2).

The percentage of muslims in Europe is vastly overstimated. In fact, surveys show that Europeans themselves overestimate the muslim population several times over (15).

d4AijyH.jpg


A side note here to consider is the difference between being culturally religious and practicing your religion. In a Danish study by "Islamic Thought" at the University Of Copenhagen, they estimated that about 40-50% of muslims living in Denmark was cultural muslims, meaning not practicing (16). Part of this can be explained by children of muslim parents being calculated as muslims in the statistics, when they might not always identify as muslims. Denmark is a very secular country, so that's another thing to consider. World Vision Research Group of Germany estimated that about 20% of German muslims where living as secular muslims (17). In Belgium, a 2005 survey found that only 10% of muslims were practicing (18), although what that means exactly in this context is not stated. Another Belgian 2010 survey found that the majority of muslims wanted religious freedom and the freedom to decide to leave islam if a person wanted to (19).


THE FUTURE OF MUSLIMS IN EUROPE:

Pew Research
did a 2015 analysis at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis, the largest refugee crisis of our time (20), attempting to make projections about the muslim population in Europe from 2016 to 2050 (21). It included three different scenarios:

1) No migration, 2) Medium migration and 3) Highest migration:

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-00.png


Zero migration would assume no migration or refugees, which is not realistic, so let's put that aside.

High migration
would assume the same number of refugee influx as in 2014-2016, at the height of Syria crisis as mentioned, each year for the next 35 years straight which also is not realistic (and we already know now not the case). We will remove that as well.

That leaves us the medium immigration scenario.
In this scenario, from 2016 to 2050, Europe will go from a population of muslim at 4,9% to 11,2%. So roughly ten percent of the population in Europe will be muslim in 2050. However, there are two important factors in regards to this projection.

1. Fertility rates.
The article states that: "Europe are assumed to have fertility rates that match those of Muslims in their destination countries"

If you look at fertility rates of major muslims countries, they have been dropping sharply in the last few decades. Going back 35 years (same as the projection ahead), from 1980 to 2015, the following countries fell as shown in the graph below:

4IaCQqT.png

Afghanistan: 7,45 to 4,80
Irak: 6,57 to 4,43
Pakistan: 6,53 to 3,35
Syria: 7,09 to 2,97
Indonesia: 4,43 to 2,39
India: 4,84 to 2,35
Libya: 7,22 to 2,30
Turkey: 4,40 to 2,09
Iran: 6,48 to 1,69

Average: 6,10 to 2,93
(22).

With this drop, it is reasonable to assume that the fertility rate will drop further and not stay the same untill year 2050. So the basis for initial comparison is a bit shaky.

In regards to European muslims, they use the following projections:

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-17.png


Which again assumes that fertility rates stays the same. This seems unfeasable as immigrant fertility rate has been dropping in most European countries during the last decade (23). Further, numbers from Austria and Germany shows that the fertility rate of muslim women is falling in both countries and is now simular to the ethnic population in some demographics (24).

2. Immigrant influx
The projected immigrant data used from 2014-2015 is hardly reliable considering the steep drop Europe has seen in asylum seekers and refugees since the height of the crisis in 2015. In this year, Germany took the biggest number of asylum seekers out of any country in Europe. This was a staggering 890.000 people. Last year (2017), that number was down to 186.644:

Y84suVm.png


As the German Interior Minister, de Maizière, said in January: ""The crisis of the extremely high figure of 2015 and 2016 has been overcome" (25).

Sweden went from 156.110 in 2015, to 22.190 in 2017. Denmark went from 20.825 in 2015, to 3.125 in 2017. Norway went from 30.470 in 2015, to 3.350 in 2017 (26). Bear in mind, these are people seeking asylum, not necessarily being granted it.

In fact, Europe as a whole has seen a substantial drop in asylum seekers and refugees, about 50% since 2015, and this number is likely to keep decreasing (27):
maYy9Jz.png


This could not have been predicted in 2015, therefor it is fair to assume that Pew Research might have overstated the projected immigrant influx.

In summary:
European Union is over 90% ethnic Europeans. EU is about 4,9% muslim. Europe has been projected by some estimates to become 11,2% muslim in 2050, however this data may be overstated and going with current trends the number may be lower. Ultimately, no one can predict all these variables, but declining fertility rates amongst muslims, a sharp decline in asylum seekers and tighter immigration policy will probably keep the number in the low-mid end estimates.

EDIT:
Corrections on Sweden ethnicity numbers and France muslim numbers after input from @Son of Jamin and @Kindacrazy

Sources:
1: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projection-table/2010/percent/all/
2: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8e/
3: http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/ethnicity-and-religion/
4: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/ethnicity-in-the-uk
5: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...knyhet/befolkningsstatistik-1a-halvaret-2018/
6: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...kningens-sammansattning/befolkningsstatistik/
7: https://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/Publikationer/VisPub?cid=20705
8: https://www.religion.dk/religionsanalysen/hvor-mange-indvandrer-lever-i-danmark
9: https://www.rights.no/2017/03/nye-ssb-tall-om-norges-befolkning/
9-2: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...p/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics
10: https://www.rights.no/2017/11/ssb-med-anslag-pa-antallet-muslimer-i-norge/
11: https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikat...grund2010220177004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
12: https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/series/103088458
12(2): https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/fr.html
13: https://www.indexmundi.com/belgium/demographics_profile.html
14: https://www.britannica.com/place/Belgium/Ethnic-groups-and-languages
15: https://www.thelocal.se/20161214/swedes-wildly-overestimate-muslim-population-survey
16: https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/statistik#2-religion-i-danmark
17: https://fowid.de/meldung/religionszugehoerigkeiten-deutschland-2017
18: https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2006/71371.htm
19: https://books.google.dk/books?id=NW7DBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA233&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
20: https://www.worldvision.org/refugees-news-stories/syrian-refugee-crisis-facts
21: http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/
22: https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
23: https://www.researchgate.net/public...y_datasheet_2015_httpwwwfertilitydatasheetorg
24: https://fowid.de/meldung/mythos-hoher-muslimischer-geburtenraten
25: https://www.dw.com/en/refugee-numbers-in-germany-dropped-dramatically-in-2017/a-42162223
26: https://data2.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/63732
27: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...ics#Number_of_asylum_applicants:_drop_in_2017
 
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In summary:
Euope is over 90% ethnic Europeans. Europe is about 4,9% muslim. Europe has been projected by some estimates to become 11,2% muslim in 2050, however this data is more than likely overstated and going with current trends the number is probably lower. Ultimately, no one can predict all these variables, but declining fertility rates amongst muslims nearing the ethnic populations, a sharp decline in asylum seekers and tighter immigration policy will probably keep the number in the low-end estimations.

So are you saying that Sherdog's finest statisticians might be wrong with suggesting that Europe will be gone in 20 years?
 
So are you saying that Sherdog's finest statisticians might be wrong with suggesting that Europe will be gone in 20 years?
Most definitely.
 
Most definitely.

I choose to believe that Sherdoggers who couldn't name more than 4 European countries know more about what is happening there than someone who allegedly lives in Europe. False flag. We all know Denmark doesn't even exist.
 
but but but these guys on the war room forum all think the west is doomed due to out breeding....they very much sound depressed and cry when they type their posts. Its all so morbid and these supreme war room warriors who many times support a neck beard along with a hefty mid section cant be all wrong.
 
So are you saying that Sherdog's finest statisticians might be wrong with suggesting that Europe will be gone in 20 years?
Yea, there’s cities, and countries supporting Sharia Law, no big deal
 
If you are a Western country, it's still a good idea to stop or limit Islamic immigration. It's a religious and a political ideology that you cannot afford to have in your country. You do not want to live in any of the Muslim Countries.
 
The fact that at those modest numbers they are already so destructive and subversive just lends credence to the idea that they shouldn’t be imported in to the West.
 
n summary:
Euope is over 90% ethnic Europeans. Europe is about 4,9% muslim. Europe has been projected by some estimates to become 11,2% muslim in 2050, however this data is likely overstated and going with current trends the number will probably be lower. Ultimately, no one can predict all these variables, but declining fertility rates amongst muslims nearing the ethnic populations, a sharp decline in asylum seekers and tighter immigration policy will probably keep the number in the low-end estimations.

Now let me start by saying that European countries have made mistake with integrating Muslims in the past and have taken in to many refugees in recent years.
Those are issue that need to be addressed.
But from those 11.2% Muslims by 2050 80-90% or even more are just going to be normal guys. That want to have a good paying job and the chance for their children to have a better life than they had.
That's my experience with Turks and other Muslims anyway. Most of them are just normal people.
A lot of them are Muslim the same way people are Christians they don't really follow it.
And there is also the fact that there will be a lot of "half-half" kids born.
 
Now let me start by saying that European countries have made mistake with integrating Muslims in the past and have taken in to many refugees in recent years.
Those are issue that need to be addressed.
But from those 11.2% Muslims by 2050 80-90% or even more are just going to be normal guys. That want to have a good paying job and the chance for their children to have a better life than they had.
That's my experience with Turks and other Muslims anyway. Most of them are just normal people.
A lot of them are Muslim the same way people are Christians they don't really follow it.
And there is also the fact that there will be a lot of "half-half" kids born.
I agree. There has definitely been a problem with too lenient immigration politics. Mostly in Sweden as far as Scandinavian countries go. This has changed to the other side in the last few years. The problem arises when people cannot look at the real facts and numbers, because if we can't do that, we can never solve these issues.

I am a staunch supporter of human rights and believe we should share the load when it comes to refugees. However, we should also reform our integration initiatives in a humane, but pragmatic way. Don't centralize all immigrants and make ghettos with lower socioeconomic status, spread people out, have more social initiatives which are preventative (all data shows that preventive initatives work much better than trying to reform), tighten immigration and border laws (we've already done that) and soften the rhetoric to be more inclusive. We need to work together.
 
OP called all these false in the other thread:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/05/17/explaining-why-minority-births-now-outnumber-white-births/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oner-current-immigration-trends-continue.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ies-of-color-are-now-the-majority-census-says
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/25/whites-on-target-to-become-a-us-minority.html

source - himself. Shouldn't there be leftist sites corroborating his "findings"?

another one from haggis:

Oh look, a reply to me goes by a person that thinks someone is 100% right all the time or they are 100% wrong. Does this even deserve a witty refute...nope. Will wait for something remotely decent to come along for that. In the mean time.

From this year.
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/...t-swedes-will-be-a-minority-in-few-years.html

From this year.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/sep/24/sweden-immigration-far-right-asylum

Literally every source presented to him he had a story to say it's wrong. Every. single. link.

So this raises the final question, why are there no leftist sites debunking and calling out gatesinstitute or any other research on their findings? Just a random sherdogger here bringing the good news lol.
 
and soften the rhetoric to be more inclusive. We need to work together.
That's a nice gesture to them, but it does not work on the radicals. Their Koran actually tells them to cut your neck.
 
OP called all these false in the other thread:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/05/17/explaining-why-minority-births-now-outnumber-white-births/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oner-current-immigration-trends-continue.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ies-of-color-are-now-the-majority-census-says
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/25/whites-on-target-to-become-a-us-minority.html

source - himself. Shouldn't there be leftist sites corroborating his "findings"?

another one from haggis:



Literally every source presented to him he had a story to say it's wrong. Every. single. link.

So this raises the final question, why are there no leftist sites debunking and calling out gatesinstitute or any other research on their findings? Just a random sherdogger here bringing the good news lol.
Nice try. If anybody wants to read our conversation go to the thread here and read: http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/u...left-almost-totally-muslim-now.3855321/page-3

I wont repeat the same things in this thread and clutter it up.
 
but muh invasion...... muh genocide
 
That's a nice gesture to them, but it does not work on the radicals. Their Koran actually tells them to cut your neck.
Oh I know very well there are religious fanatics you just can't reach Rip.... very well....
 
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This paints the picture well enough. Always nice to see numbers, at least in comparison to bloated rhetoric with an obvious political agenda. Thanks for compiling that.
 
Oh I know very well there are religous fanatics you just can't reach Rip.... very well....

Rips church doesn’t produce murderous terrorists so it doesn’t really matter if you can’t reach him though, right?
 
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