Ethnicity and Muslims in Europe - The numbers

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

OP called all these false in the other thread:

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/05/17/explaining-why-minority-births-now-outnumber-white-births/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...oner-current-immigration-trends-continue.html
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/201...ies-of-color-are-now-the-majority-census-says
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/25/whites-on-target-to-become-a-us-minority.html

source - himself. Shouldn't there be leftist sites corroborating his "findings"?

another one from haggis:



Literally every source presented to him he had a story to say it's wrong. Every. single. link.

So this raises the final question, why are there no leftist sites debunking and calling out gatesinstitute or any other research on their findings? Just a random sherdogger here bringing the good news lol.

All I took from that thread was that you cited Wikipedia when asked for a primary source.

You may be guilty of poisoning your own well here.

 

[uppercutbus]

I honestly don't know what you are talking about. It almost sounds like integration is the duty of the target country. Since when? In my opinion the obligation regarding integration relies 99% on the Immigrants. If you come to a foreign country, you have to adapt to the country and not the country to you. Muslims are already the most supported group in Europe, by far. Unfortunately they are still the worst integrated group. And no, we don't need to work together. I am tired of it.

I have a simple question for you? Do you want to see a more islamic Europe?

Leftists use America is a Nation of immigrants for USA, without that argument for Sweden/Germany/Poland/Hungary the goalposts just move onto something else. Just goes to show they will use every bullet point they can to import them.

All I took from that thread was that you cited Wikipedia when asked for a primary source.

You may be guilty of poisoning your own well here.

He actually addressed every link as fake news or incorrect in some manner. Quite a feat. I'm actually impressed someones ego can be that big. http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/146071179/

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

He actually addressed every link as fake news or incorrect in some manner. Quite a feat. I'm actually impressed someones ego can be that big. http://forums.sherdog.com/posts/146071179/

Is that the problem, or are you just really bad at finding sources?

 

[uppercutbus]

Is that the problem, or are you just really bad at finding sources?

So first you didn't read the thread and thought it was just one wiki link. Now you're saying the sources are wrong?

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

So first you didn't read the thread and thought it was just one wiki link. Now you're saying the sources are wrong?

I'm just asking for your retrospective assessment of how the argument went for you after you tried to cite The Economist and Wikipedia as primary sources. I mean you posted the link to the other thread to defend yourself, right?

I'm sure you can understand why someone wouldn't want to sift through a smattering of unspecific links from a poster who doesn't understand what a primary source is. Did you end up correcting that?

 

[bushman505]

So with numbers that small, I’d say the amount of acts of violence in the name of Islam are even more significant.

 

[uppercutbus]

I'm just asking for your retrospective assessment of how the argument went for you after you tried to cite The Economist and Wikipedia as primary sources. I mean you posted the link to the other thread to defend yourself, right?

I'm sure you can understand why someone wouldn't want to sift through a smattering of unspecific links from a poster who doesn't understand what a primary source is. Did you end up correcting that?

The thread went like this. He agreed Africa numbers will increase. He didn't agree a large amount would move to Europe. I cited them, far leftist sites have cited the same numbers and expanded it with a narrative about Africa moving to Europe - their own words and ideals.

 

[PubliusVentidius]

Yea, there’s cities, and countries supporting Sharia Law, no big deal

The fear of sharia overtaking Europe is nothing short of ridiculous. Most muslims don't even have sharia law in muslim countries were they are 90% + of the population. I'm pretty positive that the muslim countries without sharia outnumber the muslim countries with sharia (you know places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, etc) considerably. For instance In North African countries their legal system is based on french law. Lebanon = parliamentary democracy. Tunisia is a representative democracy. Turkey the same. In Indonesia they don't have sharia but a legal system based on roman dutch law. Hell, even in Europe you already have muslim countries in the Balkans and they don't have sharia. Those are countries where muslims are often 90% plus of the population and they still don't have sharia, yet somehow in Western Europe because a few salafi dumbasses do a pro-Sharia march in London or Paris they are going to subvert the democratic institutions and establish Sharia? It's so fucking ridiculous....Fear mongering really is the most powerful political tool in existence.

Moreover, the worst country when it comes to sharia and spreading salafi fanaticism and terrorism around the world is Saudi Arabia and that's US biggest ally in the area. It's convenient to hammer on muslims and islamic terrorism for political gain and at the same time supporting and aiding the biggest source of its growth around the world, you cannot get more hypocritical than that.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The fear of sharia overtaking Europe is nothing short of ridiculous. Most muslims don't even have sharia law in muslim countries were they are 90% + of the population. I'm pretty positive that the muslim countries without sharia outnumber the muslim countries with sharia (you know places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, etc) considerably. For instance In North African countries their legal system is based on french law. Lebanon = parliamentary democracy. Tunisia is a representative democracy. Turkey the same. In Indonesia they don't have sharia but a legal system based on roman dutch law. Hell, even in Europe you already have muslim countries in the Balkans and they don't have sharia. Those are countries where muslims are often 90% plus of the population and they still don't have sharia, yet somehow in Western Europe because a few salafi dumbasses do a pro-Sharia march in London or Paris they are going to subvert the democratic institutions and establish Sharia? It's so fucking ridiculous....Fear mongering really is the most powerful political tool in existence.

Moreover, the worst country when it comes to sharia and spreading salafi fanaticism and terrorism around the world is Saudi Arabia and that's US biggest ally in the area. It's convenient to hammer on muslims and islamic terrorism for political gain and at the same time supporting and aiding the biggest source of its growth around the world, you cannot get more hypocritical than that.

I don't think any of these MAGA guys know about the profundity of things like the Wahhabis, Sharia, or anything Islamic. It's just baaaaaad, so hate. Don't learn, hate.

 

[tonni]

I think it’s the middle road between panic and unvetted mass migration Europe should take. Be pragmatic for a change.

 

[RubberGuard5]

Number of Muslims in Serbia wasn't very large either, when you look it as a percentage of entire population. However, when you look at specific regions, things were different. Not many Serbs left in those regions now.

 

[Prutfis]

Islam is a religion, but it is also political. People don't realize that.

Says the guy who wants abortion overturned by the supreme court because sky wizard

 

[WhitebeltXL]

Your religious figures for the UK appear to be out of date, the last census was 2011, but recent reporting puts the UK's "no religion" category at around 50% and rising.

Also London's number of non-Christian religious followers is shown to be nearly the largest single group (at 28%) just trailing non religious people at 31%, the vast majority of these would be Muslim (who already made up 12.6% of Londons population in the 2011 census)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/13/uk-losing-faith-religion-young-reject-parents-beliefs

https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2017-may-no-religion-report.pdf

1. Those who identify as ‘No religion’ (i.e., Nones, the nonreligious) are 48.6% of the British adult population. This is roughly 24.3 million people.

The 2021 census should make for some interesting reading.

 

[TheGreatA]

The reason why people might have a skewed perspective on the number of Muslims in Europe, is because the Muslims mostly populate the big cities and amount to a disproportionate percentage of the population in those.

Whereas they might only make up 5-6 % of the overall population, they can easily make up 30 to 40% of the population in a city due to their numbers being concentrated. Relatively few, or almost no Muslims whatsoever, live on the countryside or the smaller towns.

Anyway, I do like the projection of the "zero migration" option, and certainly hope that this is going to be the way forward. A 7% Muslim population in Europe, is probably about all that Europe can bear without adverse consequences.

 

[Sano]

Your religious figures for the UK appear to be out of date, the last census was 2011, but recent reporting puts the UK's "no religion" category at around 50% and rising.

Also London's number of non-Christian religious followers is shown to be nearly the largest single group (at 28%) just trailing non religious people at 31%, the vast majority of these would be Muslim (who already made up 12.6% of Londons population in the 2011 census)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/13/uk-losing-faith-religion-young-reject-parents-beliefs

https://www.stmarys.ac.uk/research/centres/benedict-xvi/docs/2017-may-no-religion-report.pdf



The 2021 census should make for some interesting reading.

Yeah it'll be interesting. I'm sure non-affiliated will have risen, muslim have risen and christan fallen. That's the trend. The problem with this is the distinction between cultural christian or muslims, and practicing. The way it works in most countries is that they simply tally the country of origin, names, and then add their children to whichever religion they are identified as. That is barring surveys of course, but they can be few and far between. While there's no doubt that muslims tends to practice their religion more than christians, in Malmø in Sweden (the city with the biggest amount of muslims in Scandinavia) only about 20% of the muslims are a member of a mosque, and only 10% visit friday prayer. That's good, the more secular the better. I don't care which religion someone practices in private, as long as they are not violent, act secularly, comport with the values of our society and keeps their religion out of the public forum.

The reason why people might have a skewed perspective on the number of Muslims in Europe, is because the Muslims mostly populate the big cities and amount to a disproportionate percentage of the population in those.

Whereas they might only make up 5-6 % of the overall population, they can easily make up 30 to 40% of the population in a city due to their numbers being concentrated. Relatively few, or almost no Muslims whatsoever, live on the countryside or the smaller towns.

Anyway, I do like the projection of the "zero migration" option, and certainly hope that this is going to be the way forward. A 7% Muslim population in Europe, is probably about all that Europe can bear without adverse consequences.

That is a good point. That's part of the issue I have with the intergration and housing policies that's been done. You need to house minorities in smaller towns and not place every single one in the major cities.

That said, they don't easily make up 30-40% in the cities. Take the capital in each European country and it's probably an average about 5-15%, depending on what regions we are looking at. If we add the 5 biggest cities from each country, that number drops.

 

[TheGreatA]

That is a good point. That's part of the issue I have with the intergration and housing policies that's been done. You need to house minorities in smaller towns and not place every single one in the major cities.

That said, they don't easily make up 30-40% in the cities. Take the capital in each European country and it's probably an average about 5-15%, depending on if what regions we are looking at.

The statistics that we have, are mostly from pre-refugee crisis, which discount the millions of Muslims that have come in after 2015.

Even so, the Muslim populations of a number of cities are put at 15 to 20%. For example, Brussels, Manchester, Marseille, Leicester, Rotterdam, Frankfurt, etc.

I would imagine that as the years have gone on, 30 to 40% will be a more accurate number. If not today, then certainly in the nearby future. The so-called "white flight" phenomenon, that we have seen in America, will probably be witnessed in Europe as well, due to the lax attitude that governments have taken towards ensuring that the process of integration will actually be efficient.

 

[Sano]

The statistics that we have, are mostly from pre-refugee crisis, which discount the millions of Muslims that have come in after 2015.

Even so, the Muslim populations of a number of cities are put at 15 to 20%. For example, Brussels, Manchester, Marseille, Leicester, Rotterdam, Frankfurt, etc.

I would imagine that as the years have gone on, 30 to 40% will be a more accurate number. If not today, then certainly in the nearby future. The so-called "white flight" phenomenon, that we have seen in America, will probably be witnessed in Europe as well, due to the lax attitude that governments have taken towards ensuring that the process of integration will actually be efficient.

Some are before, some are after. The high numbers were from the Pew Reasearch study in 2015 which projected based on the numbers at the height of the Syrian crisis. I used them as high end, and they are from 2014-2015. Also a 2016 report from Lunds University in Sweden calculated Malmø at 16% muslim (1). Islamic Center puts it at 13% (2). The 20% number is cited from a book from 2009, which also put Denmark at 10% (it's at 8,9%), so it's not reliable.

Anyway, no doubt that the numbers will increase, but as I went over in the projections I think it'll be a pretty steady and slow increase. I hold by the 10% of EU being muslim in 2050 on average. Capitals will probably average 10-30% at that time. That's my guess.

(1) http://www.cmes.lu.se/fileadmin/_migrated/content_uploads/Malmo__rapporten_20160415.pdf
(2) http://www.mosken.se/historik

 

[Ice That Jaw]

In that case, open the gates!

 

[Fazz]

That's a nice gesture to them, but it does not work on the radicals. Their Koran actually tells them to cut your neck.

No it doesn't tell Muslims to go around cutting necks. Try showing some intellectual honesty for once and reading everything in full context. I already know the verse you are going to quote as I come across people like you regularly. If you read the full exegesis, you would know that the context was a historical battle and the command was specific to the combatants of that battle. Is lying and showing intellectual dishonesty encouraged by Christianity or is that just your personal character?

 

[Ripskater]

No it doesn't tell Muslims to go around cutting necks. Try showing some intellectual honesty for once and reading everything in full context. I already know the verse you are going to quote as I come across people like you regularly. If you read the full exegesis, you would know that the context was a historical battle and the command was specific to the combatants of that battle. Is lying and showing intellectual dishonesty encouraged by Christianity or is that just your personal character?

Then why do so many Islamic terrorists cut so many people's heads off and display them on photos? And why do they chop people up and cut off their fingers and toes? Because these Muslim terrorists are in a battle. That's what happened to that journalist. They'd cut my head off in a heart beat and cut off my fingers too if they could.

Not all Muslims, but too many of them do.

I'm not saying you would. There are many good muslim people, but there is a huge terrorist problem in the religion of Islam. Because of the Koran and Mohammed.

8:12

ﮉ ﮊ ﮋ ﮌ ﮍ ﮎ ﮏ ﮐ ﮑ ﮒ ﮓﮔ ﮕ ﮖ ﮗ ﮘ ﮙ ﮚ ﮛ ﮜ ﮝ ﮞ ﮟ ﮠ ﮡ

Sahih International
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."