Ethnicity and Muslims in Europe - The numbers

The fear of sharia overtaking Europe is nothing short of ridiculous. Most muslims don't even have sharia law in muslim countries were they are 90% + of the population. I'm pretty positive that the muslim countries without sharia outnumber the muslim countries with sharia (you know places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran, etc) considerably.


Yeah totally ridiculous...

I mean they massacre Christians, gays and atheists like pigs in the middle east but hey... no big deal for such tolerant and well educated guy like you I guess. Over one million Christians were decimated during the last 10 years alone in Iraq. I don't care how you call it. Sharia law, muslim law, islamic culture etc. take a pick. Fact is that all muslim dominated countries are intolerant shitholes. Almost every country were Muslims are in power is a nightmare for minorities.

Sorry, but your entire post is nothing but a complete joke. I am at the point, where I don't even know how to discuss with guys like you. I mean you mentioned countries like Tunisia and Turkey as positive examples? wtf
<{hughesimpress}>


You are probably not up to date regarding Tunisia.
https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/tunisia/
https://www.christiandaily.com/arti...escape-persecution-and-abuse-report/59628.htm

tunisia.jpg
 
Last edited:
Then why do so many Islamic terrorists cut so many people's heads off and display them on photos? And why do they chop people up and cut off their fingers and toes? Because these Muslim terrorists are in a battle. That's what happened to that journalist. They'd cut my head off in a heart beat and cut off my fingers too if they could.

Not all Muslims, but too many of them do.

I'm not saying you would. There are many good muslim people, but there is a huge terrorist problem in the religion of Islam. Because of the Koran and Mohammed.

8:12

ﮓﮔ

Sahih International
[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."


Yes you quoted exactly what I said you would quote and without the tafsir - so predictable. Like I explained before this is was specific to a historical battle and not a general command - that is how it has been understood and explained by Islamic scholars for over a 1000 years. I could cite to you many books in Arabic and English if you had any genuine interest in learning about the topic but we both know your only goal is to offer violent sounding tidbits and present them as a Quranic norm. Like I said, very dishonest and I'm sure very unChristian. But I've read enough of your posts to know this is how you operate.
 
. Like I said, very dishonest and I'm sure very unChristian. But I've read enough of your posts to know this is how you operate.
Well I'm just quoting your book and citing that Islam has a big terrorist problem with cutting off people's heads. If that's dishonesty, Oh well.
 
Well I'm just quoting your book and citing that Islam has a big terrorist problem with cutting off people's heads. If that's dishonesty, Oh well.

What's dishonesty is quoting something knowing that you are leaving out full context to make a cheap point. I'm sure you have come across people selectively quoting from the Bible and have not appreciated it - I hope you can appreciate your own hypocrisy however. As for the "terrorism" problem - it does exist and it began as a political phenomena - Bin Laden, the godfather of all modern day Middle-Eastern terrorist groups was clear about his motives. Thats not to say they didn't try to bring a religious aspect to it for recruitment purposes but that's a long story. However I am finding it vaguely amusing that I'm getting a lecture about terrorism from an right-wing American when it is your kind that has killed more innocent people than an Al-Qaeda members wet dream. Although I suppose you support the killing of women and children when your fellow Christians and countrymen are the ones doing the murdering?
 
The reason why no one give a shit is because they live in a tight and concentrated areas like Chinatown. They’re nowhere to be seen outside that area. It’s the same as US where each communities have their own areas.

But WR thinks they’re all over the countries in Europe...
 
Yeah totally ridiculous...

I mean they massacre Christians, gays and atheists like pigs in the middle east but hey... no big deal for such tolerant and well educated guys like you I guess. Over one million Christians were decimated during the last 10 years alone in Iraq. I don't care how you call it. Sharia law, muslim law, islamic culture etc. take a pick. Fact is that all muslim dominated countries are intolerant shitholes. Almost every country were Muslims are in power is a nightmare for minorities.

Sorry, but your entire post is nothing but a complete joke. I am at the point, where I don't even know how to discuss with guys like you. I mean you mentioned countries like Tunisia and Turkey as positive examples? wtf
<{hughesimpress}>


You are probably not up to date regarding Tunisia.
https://www.opendoorsusa.org/christian-persecution/world-watch-list/tunisia/
https://www.christiandaily.com/arti...escape-persecution-and-abuse-report/59628.htm

tunisia.jpg

I didn't mention those countries as ''positive examples'', nice try spinning the argument. Although if you compare Turkey and Tunisia with US darling Saudi Arabia those countries are a beacon of progress by comparison. I stated facts that those countries do not have sharia, most muslims living in muslim countries do not have sharia, you fear a hilariously far-fetched scenario like sharia in Europe when for the most part they don't even have in their own countries because you are an easily frightened lemming; that's what populism does to people, and the same populists who gain political points with lemmings like you are also the one who kneel in front of the wahabis and kiss their butts. The US does not care about the war on terror, they care about their economic interests in the area and those coincide with more salafi mosques and madrasis, more jihadist propaganda, more radicalization and more islamic terrorism in Europe and around the world.
 
cancers cells are also a small percentage of the total number of cells in the body.
 
It’s very hard to deny that Muslims will not integrate, their job is to overtake. It’s modern day crucades, they are trying to take over Europe once again, but this time Europe are letting it happen. It’s fucking nuts.
 
Now let me start by saying that European countries have made mistake with integrating Muslims in the past and have taken in to many refugees in recent years.
Those are issue that need to be addressed.
But from those 11.2% Muslims by 2050 80-90% or even more are just going to be normal guys. That want to have a good paying job and the chance for their children to have a better life than they had.
That's my experience with Turks and other Muslims anyway. Most of them are just normal people.
A lot of them are Muslim the same way people are Christians they don't really follow it.
And there is also the fact that there will be a lot of "half-half" kids born.
Hey guys we made the mistake of letting in too many Muslims in the past soooooo... we're going to be letting more in! But it's ok, they still won't be the majority by 2050!
 
Look at the big cities. This is where the music plays. Look at London, Paris, Berlin etc.
The demographics will change. It's just a question of time. Europe will become more islamic, because the Islam is the most dominant culture in the world and because the European voters want more "diversity". They want globalization. At least in my country, which is Germany. Otherwise they wouldn't vote Merkel.

A Muslim knows who he is. Western people in contrary don't even know their gender.

what he isnt looking at is yeah big cities and specific countries. eastern europe, much of the balkans and italy and spain should be alright. The baltics even. But germany, france, sweden, netherlands, uk, and belgium are becoming increasingly islamic. And in the case of france it is illegal to do demographic census by the state so the real number of africans and brown muslims is for sure higher.
 
With all the muslim threads going on constantly and frankly bizarre numbers being thrown around, I thought I would finally take the time to look into the statistics. This thread is not about whether the muslim ideology is good or bad. Personally, I dislike fundamentalism in all shapes and forms and it's no secret the muslim faith has substantial amount of that. However, the figures often mentioned does not always comport with reality. This is purely to put some of the misinformation to rest.

THE CURRENT STATE OF MUSLIMS IN EUROPE

Demographics of Northern and Central European Countries

Ireland
Ethnicity
: 82,2% White Irish, 9,5% white other
Religion: 92.0% christian, 6.2% unaffiliated, 1.4% muslim
(1, 2)

United Kingdom
Ethnicity
: 87% White British
Religion: 59% christian, 25% unaffiliated and 4-6% muslim
(1, 3).

Sweden
Ethnicity
: 81% Swedish
Religion: 67% christian, 27% unaffiliated, 4,6-8% muslim

About 80% are ethnically Swedish in Sweden, and immigration is on a sharp decline, with Syrian refugees being down 34% from last year. Add to that 2% of the population are foreign born from Africa and 4,2% from the middle east which here include: Iran, Irak, Afghanistan and Syria (1, 4, 5, 6).

Denmark
Ethnicity
: 87% Danish
Religion: 84,5% christian, 11,8% unaffiliated, 4-5,3% muslim

Non-western ethnicity including second generation accounts for about 7% of the population.
(7, 8).

Norway
Ethnicity
: 84% Norweigan
Religion: 84,7% christian, 10,1% unaffiliated, 4% muslim
(9, 10).

Germany
Ethnicity
: 80% German, 90% European
Religon: 68.7% christian, 24.7% unaffiliated, 5.8-6,1% muslim
(1, 11)

France
Ethnicity
: 89% French
Religion: 63.0% christian, 28% unaffiliated, 7.5% muslim
(1,12)

Belgium
Ethnicity
: 75-85% Belgian
Religion: 64.2% christian, 29% unaffiliated, 5.9% muslim.
(1, 13, 14)

European Union Total
Ethnicity:
92,5% European
Religion: 74,5% Christian, 18.8% Unaffiliated and 4,9% Muslim

On average 74~% are christian, 18.8% unaffiliated and 5.9% muslim. This includes countries like Albania and Kosovo which are almost exclusively muslim (80-90%). They are however not migrants or refugees. The European Union (EU), which is a better representation, has a population of 4,9% muslims. EU citizens are 92,5% ethnically European (1, 9-2).

The percentage of muslims in Europe is vastly overstimated. In fact, surveys show that Europeans themselves overestimate the muslim population several times over (15).

d4AijyH.jpg


A side note here to consider is the difference between being culturally religious and practicing your religion. In a Danish study by "Islamic Thought" at the University Of Copenhagen, they estimated that about 40-50% of muslims living in Denmark was cultural muslims, meaning not practicing (16). Part of this can be explained by children of muslim parents being calculated as muslims in the statistics, when they might not always identify as muslims. Denmark is a very secular country, so that's another thing to consider. World Vision Research Group of Germany estimated that about 20% of German muslims where living as secular muslims (17). In Belgium, a 2005 survey found that only 10% of muslims were practicing (18), although what that means exactly in this context is not stated. Another Belgian 2010 survey found that the majority of muslims wanted religious freedom and the freedom to decide to leave islam if a person wanted to (19).


THE FUTURE OF MUSLIMS IN EUROPE:

Pew Research
did a 2015 analysis at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis, the largest refugee crisis of our time (20), attempting to make projections about the muslim population in Europe from 2016-2050 (21). It included three different scenarios: 1) No migration, 2) Medium migration and 3) Highest migration:

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-00.png


Zero migration would assume no migration or refugees, which is not realistic, so let's put that aside. High migration would assume the same number of refugee influx as in 2014-2016, at the height of Syria crisis as mentioned, each year for the next 35 years straight which also is not realistic (and we already know now not the case). We will remove that as well. That leaves us the medium immigration scenario.

In this scenario, from 2016-2050, Europe would go from a population of muslim at 4,9% to 11,2%. So roughly ten percent of the population in Europe would be muslim in 2050. However, there are two important issues to be raised with the projection, and why it might be overstated.

1. Fertility rates.
The article states that: "Europe are assumed to have fertility rates that match those of Muslims in their destination countries"

If you look at fertility rates of major muslims countries, they have been dropping sharply in the last few decades. Going back 35 years (same as the projection ahead), from 1980 to 2015, the following countries fell as shown in the graph below:

4IaCQqT.png

Afghanistan: 7,45 to 4,80
Irak: 6,57 to 4,43
Pakistan: 6,53 to 3,35
Syria: 7,09 to 2,97
Indonesia: 4,43 to 2,39
India: 4,84 to 2,35
Libya: 7,22 to 2,30
Turkey: 4,40 to 2,09
Iran: 6,48 to 1,69

Average: 6,10 to 2,93
(22).

With this drop, it is dubious to assume that the fertility rate would not drop further and would stay the same untill year 2050. So the basis for initial comparison is shaky at best.

In regards to European muslims, they use the following projections:

PF_11.29.17_muslims-update-17.png


Which again assumes that fertility rates stays the same. This seems unfeasable as immigrant fertility rate has been dropping in most European countries during the last decade (23). Further, numbers from Austria and Germany shows that the fertility rate of muslim women is falling in both countries and is now simular to the ethnic population in some demographics (24).

2. Immigrant influx
The projected immigrant data used from 2014-2015, even if taking the medium immigrant influx scenario, is hardly reliable considering the steep drop Europe has seen in asylum seekers and refugees since the height of the crisis in 2015. In this year, Germany took the biggest number of asylum seekers out of any country in Europe. This was a staggering 890.000 people. Last year, that numbers was down to 186.644:

Y84suVm.png


As the German Interior Minister, de Maizière, said in January: ""The crisis of the extremely high figure of 2015 and 2016 has been overcome" (25).

Sweden went from 156.110 in 2015, to 22.190 in 2017. Denmark went from 20.825 in 2015, to 3.125 in 2017. Norway went from 30.470 in 2015, to 3.350 in 2017 (26). Bear in mind, these are people seeking asylum, not necessarily being granted it.

In fact, Europe as a whole has seen a substantial drop in asylum seekers and refugees, about 50% since 2015, and this number is likely to keep decreasing (27):
maYy9Jz.png


This could not have been predicted in 2015, therefor it is fair to assume that Pew Research might have overstated the projected immigrant data and influx.

In summary:
Euope is over 90% ethnic Europeans. Europe is about 4,9% muslim. Europe has been projected by some estimates to become 11,2% muslim in 2050, however this data is likely overstated and going with current trends the number will probably be lower. Ultimately, no one can predict all these variables, but declining fertility rates amongst muslims nearing the ethnic populations, a sharp decline in asylum seekers and tighter immigration policy will probably keep the number in the low-end estimations.


1: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projection-table/2010/percent/all/
2: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8e/
3: http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/ethnicity-and-religion/
4: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/ethnicity-in-the-uk
5: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...knyhet/befolkningsstatistik-1a-halvaret-2018/
6: https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/...kningens-sammansattning/befolkningsstatistik/
7: https://www.dst.dk/da/Statistik/Publikationer/VisPub?cid=20705
8: https://www.religion.dk/religionsanalysen/hvor-mange-indvandrer-lever-i-danmark
9: https://www.rights.no/2017/03/nye-ssb-tall-om-norges-befolkning/
9-2: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...p/Migration_and_migrant_population_statistics
10: https://www.rights.no/2017/11/ssb-med-anslag-pa-antallet-muslimer-i-norge/
11: https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikat...grund2010220177004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile
12: https://www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/series/103088458
13: https://www.indexmundi.com/belgium/demographics_profile.html
14: https://www.britannica.com/place/Belgium/Ethnic-groups-and-languages
15: https://www.thelocal.se/20161214/swedes-wildly-overestimate-muslim-population-survey
16: https://www.kristeligt-dagblad.dk/statistik#2-religion-i-danmark
17: https://fowid.de/meldung/religionszugehoerigkeiten-deutschland-2017
18: https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/irf/2006/71371.htm
19: https://books.google.dk/books?id=NW7DBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA233&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
20: https://www.worldvision.org/refugees-news-stories/syrian-refugee-crisis-facts
21: http://www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/
22: https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
23: https://www.researchgate.net/public...y_datasheet_2015_httpwwwfertilitydatasheetorg
24: https://fowid.de/meldung/mythos-hoher-muslimischer-geburtenraten
25: https://www.dw.com/en/refugee-numbers-in-germany-dropped-dramatically-in-2017/a-42162223
26: https://data2.unhcr.org/en/documents/download/63732
27: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/stati...ics#Number_of_asylum_applicants:_drop_in_2017

Great work @Sano !
 
So few muslims yet I get bombarded (pun intended) with news and backgrounds about islam and muslims on a fucking daily basis! Supermarkets have halal isles. Islamic tv shows etc etc yet I'm the one overreacting? <YeahOKJen>
 
It's the definitive right-wing fear mongering of the past 2 decades.
They know the numbers are bullshit. They know the "Sharia law" claims are bullshit.
They just don't really care.
 
what he isnt looking at is yeah big cities and specific countries. eastern europe, much of the balkans and italy and spain should be alright. The baltics even. But germany, france, sweden, netherlands, uk, and belgium are becoming increasingly islamic. And in the case of france it is illegal to do demographic census by the state so the real number of africans and brown muslims is for sure higher.

Get that Burqa ready for the wife @tonni
 
Look at the big cities. This is where the music plays. Look at London, Paris, Berlin etc.
The demographics will change. It's just a question of time. Europe will become more islamic, because the Islam is the most dominant culture in the world and because the European voters want more "diversity". They want globalization. At least in my country, which is Germany. Otherwise they wouldn't vote Merkel.

A Muslim knows who he is. Western people in contrary don't even know their gender.

This is where you conservatives lose everyone.

You're panicking about Europe becoming "more Islamic" politically. Wouldn't that require that they co-opt categorically conservative social policies? Conservatives want to degrade secularism, limit contraceptive rights, limit gay marriage, crack down on what you said about people not knowing their gender. If you want an ally in those causes, Muslims are your people as they are politically MUCH more similar to conservatives than liberals.
 
Sweden
Ethnicity
: 81% Swedish
Religion: 67% christian, 27% unaffiliated, 4,6-8% muslim

About 80% are ethnically Swedish in Sweden, and immigration is on a sharp decline, with Syrian refugees being down 34% from last year. Add to that 2% of the population are foreign born from Africa and 4,2% from the middle east which here include: Iran, Irak, Afghanistan and Syria (1, 4, 5, 6).
Your numbers are incorrect:

As of 2017, 24,1% of the Swedish citizens have a foreign background. Foreign background means born outside of Sweden or that you have two foreign born parents.
The source is: Statistics Sweden
– a government agency that brings official statistics to the public
https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/.../folkmangd-och-befolkningsforandringar-20172/

Another important measure is the percentage of people in the age group that can repopulate:

* As of 2016, 31,9% of the people between 0-44 years old were of a foreign background.

You are also cherry picking stats, the number of asylum seekers have declined but family immigration is increasing. You are also omitting a fact that in 2003, the government changed the definition of foreign background. A person born to a person from Sweden and a person from a foreign country are classified as of Swedish background, which in turn made a 500,000 people change category.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A publicly employed and left-leaning Swedish researcher named Tobias Hubinette states that:

In 2028:

33% of all children in Sweden will be born of a mother from a foreign country.
20% of all children in Sweden will be born of a mother that is a second generation immigrant or of mixed background.
30-33% of the people in the age span of 25-64 will be of foreign background.
20% of the people in the same age span will be second generation of immigrants.

https://tobiashubinette.wordpress.com/2018/04/28/det-nya-sverige-usa-demografi-mangfald/ <= In Swedish
 
The problem isnt the numbers. But how european governments place these people. They like to put them in same areas which give impression they are more than they actually are

Certainly there is a belief that they need to go where their are suitable amenities Halal butchers , Mosques , Cultural centres and the like which can create pressure in those areas .
 
Back
Top