International Russia vs. Ukraine Combat Megathread vol.3

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you are rooting for russia? thats because you have lots of moral and intellectual problems. this is just a symptom of those.

and why would the msm so aggressively cover this and not americas terrible wars? just MAYBE it has something to do with putins dead pan thread of fucking nuclear war.....

It is clearly you who lacks intelect buddy. It is not me who is cheering on a proofen evil empire who does not shy away from mass murder, lies and deception.

Also, it is not Russia, but the US who has used nuclear bombs before. Not once, bit TWICE! Gtfoh with your selective outrage. The more shyte I read from morons like you, the more I hope Russia is victorious for the world’s sake.
 
It is clearly you who lacks intelect buddy. It is not me who is cheering on a proofen evil empire who does not shy away from mass murder, lies and deception.

Also, it is not Russia, but the US who has used nuclear bombs before. Not once, bit TWICE! Gtfoh with your selective outrage. The more shyte I read from morons like you, the more I hope Russia is victorious for the world’s sake.

who is threatening to use them now for no good reason though? oh yeah thats right.... its putin.... the guy you support and for no good reason at all. also the Ukraine has never used nukes... duh.

where are you from?
 
Satellite imagery company Maxar Technology says that earlier reports indicating the column of Russian armour advancing on Kyiv is 17 miles (27km) long are inaccurate.

The convoy actually stretches about 40 miles, according to Maxar.

The company added that new images also show ground troops and attack helicopters in southern Belarus, less than 20 miles from the Ukraine border.

-- I think we very quickly approaching the end of this war, and still there will be no winner.

Fuck.
 
This only proofs that the MSM and social media propaganda that “the Russians are murdering civilians” is false. If anything, what we see here is a very cordial force that allowed subjects to enter and get close to them. If these were US soldiers, they would have opened fire to any civilian aproaching them as we have seen in Iraq and Afghanistan. Russian soldiers have clearly better war ethics.

Yea. This is something that disgusts me.

I really wish people would think twice before accepting a narrative that both the government and the media are driving.

That said, both sides lie about everything in regards to this war/conflict.
 
who is threatening to use them now for no good reason though? oh yeah thats right.... its putin.... the guy you support and for no good reason at all. also the Ukraine has never used nukes... duh.

where are you from?
Being on alert is not a threat. If anything, it is letting morons like you know how high the stakes are for Russia.

Why don’t you put your outdoor clothes on and get a one flight ticket to Kiev. You seem to enjoy throwing Ukraine to the sharks so put your money where your mouth is and at least go fight for it.
 
Where?
Who is doing that? No one is posting video or photographic evidence of anything. Some bombed out abandoned school here, a left-behind burni

You think Ukraine is telling the truth about all of this when they've been caught in lie after lie because you "Can't fathom" why someone would?
It's war. It's propaganda to keep morale up and humiliate their enemy. Not hard.

How would like me to prove that 5,300 troops AREN'T dead?

If you can't see that you are being dismissive in the response you gave, then nothing I am going to show you will convince you otherwise. Saying something is war propoganda and stating it as a fact is inherently dismissive of people who are saying that isn't the case.

I can't speak to the number of Russian soldiers dead, but I do think it is relatively easy to confirm (or close to confirm), the number of Ukrainians displaced as a result of war. 100,000+ people entering into Romania and Poland, with surrounding countries pledging to take in tens of thousands more. Thousands of Ukrainian families in Canada, the United States and elsewhere around the world who are scared sick at being unable to make contact with loved ones who are still back home.

I can understand accusing state governments and the media of being capable of bias and misrepresenting the situation, but I just don't see people who have families/loved ones living in the Ukraine as being part of a disinformation campaign.

This is a fruitless conversation though - nothing anybody will show you is going to change your mind. This is what is maddening about these conversations - "Show me the evidence" (somebody provides evidence) "Show me the evidence from an unbiased source". We will spin around in circles, so I am just going to say let's agree to disagree.
 

It's really interesting to see the videos, and reports state that the most effective troops in the war so far on Putin's side have been chechens and dagestanis, other caucasian minorities. That 20 years ago, they were the Ukrainians. We like to lump them into one big category "Russians." Imagine 20 years from now, Russia invades Latvia, and the frontline soldier is the baby in the womb of a Ukrainian mother hiding in a bomb shelter right now.

What Putin has been doing is sending columns of caucasian forces to probe down highways. Russia has 9k T72s and 4.5k T80s. These are ancient low value clunkers, 50 year old metal cages. Old BTRs, old BMPs, Kamaz trucks, Tigrs. Put caucasian soldiers in them, drive them until the gas runs out, and fend for themselves. He can do that all day.

The way I see Putin's invasion is like a couple I knew. They struggled with money, but they always wanted kids. Then, a financial emergency took place, they had to use up everything they had saved. Months later, they were pregnant. And I asked them "I thought you had been saving up?" And they said, basically, "we realized that we're never going to have the money, this is always something we have wanted, so we might as well now."

After the 2014 crimea invasion and the ensuing sanctions, the Russia economy contracted drastically in only a few years. This forced them to repeatedly cut their military spending budget. And the sad thing is, they had to discontinue most of their modernization programmes both ground forces, naval especially, also air, etc. The economy was barely recovering when the 2020 pandemic hit and shook the economy again. Putin is almost 70. At the rate that the Russian economy was growing even before the pandemic, it would be decades before they reached economic superpower status again, and the tax revenue increased so that they could modernize their military and perform operations with state of the art technology, which they have even developed but they don't have in bulk quantities. Putin figured this was something he always wanted, he's not going to be able to do it effectively in his lifetime, so this is him just going for it.

The west has this narrative of "Ukraine the underdog." Maybe someone who is more of a military head than me can explain to me the rational. It's often cited that Russia has over 1 million active soldiers, but only 150k of them were at the border. Russia only committed a third of its amassed forces, about 50,000 soldiers, in the first 3 days of the invasion. Ukraine's active military has over 200k soldiers, not counting reserves, so they outnumbered the Russians at least 4 to 1, realistically much more. By the 4th day that increased to 80k, by yesterday it was 100k, probably more by today. Nevertheless, even the 150k is honestly not enough. More troops may be on the way, but common sense would indicate that invading a country of 40 million, you'd want at least double that. Also, on the technological front in ground forces warfare, the battle is pretty even. As I mentioned above, Russia hasn't been able to fund its weapons modernization programme, so it's clunkers vs. clunkers. An upgraded T-64 piece of garbage against a T-72 piece of garbage. It's pretty even. Ukraine also has T-72s, T-80s, old BMPs, old BTRs, against Russia's old versions of the same. But again, Ukraine has more operators, since Russian's invasion force is small. So on the ground, Ukraine should be expected to prevail, all other things equal.

Where Russia should have the advantage is naval and air. And that can tip the ground forces war back in their favor. But Russia has been extremely reserved up until the past 2 or 3 days with its use of artillery. The US reports I believe something to the effect of only 430 missiles have been launched. We know Russia has significantly more than that. They haven't targeted any critical infrastructure, gas, water, electrical. This is problematic because weapons reinforcements are arriving from the west as we speak. In a long drawn-out dogfight, Ukraine has a few advantages, namely if they can continually be resupplied, they can basically outlast the Russians simply because no invading Russian force will have greater numbers than the Ukrainian army, and all of its reservists, and all of its conscripts, etc. Secondly, as time wears on, the sanctions from the west will hurt more and more, which will pose a threat to Putin at home. I surmised yesterday my speculation on what his motives are. He is mistakenly of the belief that he can, with an attempt at surgical limited warfare, essentially win over the support of the Ukrainian people. As I said before, he is a very busy man who tries to be a robber and worry about the ethics of being a robber at the same time.

I understand there's an attempt at encirclement. It makes sense in theory, block off all the paths in and out of the city, prevent munitions shipments, eventually they will run out of bullets. Groups of russian, in many case caucasian, units have been racing around cities in order to try to envelop them. One the one hand the results are inconsistent, because these groups are meant to be disposable, poorly trained units with clunker technology, they tend to be easily captured or killed. And they are literally treated as disposable. Russia captured an anti-aircraft battalion outside of Kharkiv on day 3 in what was a big breakthrough at the time, allowing them briefly to send units into the city, but because it was a time sensitive window, they only sent with only a few soldiers in Tigr-Ms. Conventional wisdom might suggest save your troops for the future, most of these troops were killed or captured, their vans were captured. It seemed like a pointless gesture other than to say "hey look, we breached your defense briefly."

But at best this method is slow, as ammunition runs out slower than fuel or water, or food in the event of a power outage (no storage). Until a city is fully encircled, it can continue to be supplied and resupplied. Only Mariupol is fully encircled. And even after that, with continuous and uninterrupted access to gas, electricity, and water, they can continue to weather the storm for weeks or even months, at which point the scale of the war tips in the favor of Ukraine.

I think Putin has obsessed himself with this image of the savior of Ukraine. I think Putin will soon have to decide if he is going to save Ukraine, or go to war with Ukraine. He cannot do both, and if he tries to do both, he will do neither.
 


more advanced aircraft appeared


I think the meeting today was to ask Ukrainian government to surrender now, privately, or surrender/be destroyed.

I don't think they will endure this next wave.

What a terrible situation, and a travesty.

Never lift the sanctions if this happens.
 
Being on alert is not a threat. If anything, it is letting morons like you know how high the stakes are for Russia.

Why don’t you put your outdoor clothes on and get a one flight ticket to Kiev. You seem to enjoy throwing Ukraine to the sharks so put your money where your mouth is and at least go fight for it.

so the way you justify support for putin is by pretending he is not threatening the use of nukes? so your whole position is just fantasy then?

if thats all you have got we are done here.
 
Yea. This is something that disgusts me.

I really wish people would think twice before accepting a narrative that both the government and the media are driving.

That said, both sides lie about everything in regards to this war/conflict.
Absolutley. Putin is just as shyte as the next guy who is allowed to call himself potus.

But we need to be honest here that Russian crimes don’t even come close to what the US has done and still does in the world. I just can’t stand the blatant hypocrisy and selective outrage.
 
I can't help but wonder how we know they're Russian and not Ukrainan vehicles?
And is that footage from now, or is it from previous skirmishes? This feels like covid again. Being absolutely bombarded with misinformation, using old stock images, bots galore, etc. I dont know what to believe, and I'll likely only believe 10% of what I do believe.<Neil01>
 
If you can't see that you are being dismissive in the response you gave, then nothing I am going to show you will convince you otherwise. Saying something is war propoganda and stating it as a fact is inherently dismissive of people who are saying that isn't the case.

I can't speak to the number of Russian soldiers dead, but I do think it is relatively easy to confirm (or close to confirm), the number of Ukrainians displaced as a result of war. 100,000+ people entering into Romania and Poland, with surrounding countries pledging to take in tens of thousands more. Thousands of Ukrainian families in Canada, the United States and elsewhere around the world who are scared sick at being unable to make contact with loved ones who are still back home.

I can understand accusing state governments and the media of being capable of bias and misrepresenting the situation, but I just don't see people who have families/loved ones living in the Ukraine as being part of a disinformation campaign.

This is a fruitless conversation though - nothing anybody will show you is going to change your mind. This is what is maddening about these conversations - "Show me the evidence" (somebody provides evidence) "Show me the evidence from an unbiased source". We will spin around in circles, so I am just going to say let's agree to disagree.

he is wearing a tin foil hat man.. he cant hear you.
 
Satellite imagery company Maxar Technology says that earlier reports indicating the column of Russian armour advancing on Kyiv is 17 miles (27km) long are inaccurate.

The convoy actually stretches about 40 miles, according to Maxar.

The company added that new images also show ground troops and attack helicopters in southern Belarus, less than 20 miles from the Ukraine border.

-- I think we very quickly approaching the end of this war, and still there will be no winner.

Fuck.

Looks like too much overwhelming force coming. May have taken a bit longer than Putin wanted but gonna be pretty damn tough to withstand that much firepower.

It's going to look very bad if there's footage of them surrounding the city and just shelling civilian areas. And it won't matter to the world that they're armed civilians who have volunteered to stay and fight. They are still going to be people in their own homes, getting bombed intentionally by a foreign aggressor. Putin will always now be viewed as evil. And even that might be better than Russian troops engaging in door to door combat. The Ukrainian leadership's will is going to be tested more in the coming days than they ever imagined. Do they lay down arms and agree to Russia simply overthrowing their democratically elected leaders? Or do they stay and fight to the end and get wiped out?

Maybe the internal pressure on Putin will overwhelm him when the Oligarchs can't get to huge amounts of their $ and they have bank runs and the populace can't eat. Maybe inside that country they'll take him out. Seems like the best shot right now, sadly.
 
the adults are back in the room: no migs 4 u



us/uk media will probably still be trying to gee up some boys to go and die for the cause as unpaid NATO pseudo-mercs basically
 
Looks like too much overwhelming force coming. May have taken a bit longer than Putin wanted but gonna be pretty damn tough to withstand that much firepower.

It's going to look very bad if there's footage of them surrounding the city and just shelling civilian areas. And it won't matter to the world that they're armed civilians who have volunteered to stay and fight. They are still going to be people in their own homes, getting bombed intentionally by a foreign aggressor. Putin will always now be viewed as evil. And even that might be better than Russian troops engaging in door to door combat. The Ukrainian leadership's will is going to be tested more in the coming days than they ever imagined. Do they lay down arms and agree to Russia simply overthrowing their democratically elected leaders? Or do they stay and fight to the end and get wiped out?

Maybe the internal pressure on Putin will overwhelm him when the Oligarchs can't get to huge amounts of their $ and they have bank runs and the populace can't eat. Maybe inside that country they'll take him out. Seems like the best shot right now, sadly.

Looks to me like the only chance for any sort of survival is if the world pledge sanctions will be in effect for years should the government be overthrown.

But there's not much time to make such threats, and I don't know if enough countries would agree.
 
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