Social Uncomfortable Conversations: "The right kind of refugee"

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Thus far though, the world has welcomed Ukranian's with open arms (as they should), but historically, have been far less willing to do so when it comes to other displaced people

As far as the past decade is concerned this simply isn't true.

 

[ElKarlo]

Uh no, these public figures made those obvious racist statements on air in reaction to the crisis in general. Besides where have liberals said that they don't want Ukrainians due to their whiteness?

You said she "literally" told them that, its not semantics to point out she didn't. Its really shitty sure but its not relevant to the Ukraine crisis. You said you saw black and brown people being highly offended by the acceptance of these refugees and have yet to produce a single example, much less one of a relevant public figure.

So even when there's multiple, explicit references to race as the distinguishing factor as to why these refugees matter more its still not racism. Weird logic but okay.

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/swedish-pm-says-no-to-ukrainian-refugees/ So Sweden isn’t taking them in in any real numbers. Interesting
Would have to see. Case by case on who said what abs if it’s an out of context clip. I don’t trust the media on these issues at all anymore

 

[Islam Imamate]

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/swedish-pm-says-no-to-ukrainian-refugees/ So Sweden isn’t taking them in in any real numbers. Interesting
Would have to see. Case by case on who said what abs if it’s an out of context clip. I don’t trust the media on these issues at all anymore

I read your link, nowhere does anyone say that they don't want Ukrainian refugees because they are white. On the other hand public figures are saying that they want Ukrainians and strongly imply its because they are white like the two quoted in the OP.

 

[ElKarlo]

I read your link, nowhere does anyone say that they don't want Ukrainian refugees because they are white. On the other hand public figures are saying that they want Ukrainians and strongly imply its because they are white like the two quoted in the OP.

I think it can be implied. Sweden loves that diversity
What the last guy said made sense. Take in those that are like you and don’t take in those that create a parallel society that causes billions of dollars a year in social needs. Plus the crime and rape. Sorry that’s not racist, that’s logical

 

[Islam Imamate]

I think it can be implied. Sweden loves that diversity
What the last guy said made sense. Take in those that are like you and don’t take in those that create a parallel society that causes billions of dollars a year in social needs. Plus the crime and rape. Sorry that’s not racist, that’s logical

Based on the fact that there's no references to race? And yet you were initially saying that TS was hysterically pulling the race card despite the overt references to race by multiple reports and at least one former Ukrainian official? Weird double standards around racism here but alright, you do you.

 

[ElKarlo]

Based on the fact that there's no references to race? And yet you were initially saying that TS was hysterically pulling the race card despite the overt references to race by multiple reports and at least on Ukrainian official? Weird double standards around racism here but alright, you do you.

The UK has signalled it will not offer refugee status to Ukrainians, but has promised to speed up family reunification.

Form AJ. The are clever enough to not say it
Well given all the anti western sentiment it’s hard not to see it. The gaslighting from the German and UK police about immigrant crime. That was for what exactly? It was to cover up their multiculturalism mistake.
I’m saying they don’t want more whites as that would take away from their precious diversity that has been pushed and protected under very dubious conditions
While others seeing that don’t want those types anymore and are willing to accept Ukrainians. They are being dumb about it but they aren’t wrong

 

[Islam Imamate]

The UK has signalled it will not offer refugee status to Ukrainians, but has promised to speed up family reunification.

Form AJ. The are clever enough to not say it
Well given all the anti western sentiment it’s hard not to see it. The gaslighting from the German and UK police about immigrant crime. That was for what exactly? It was to cover up their multiculturalism mistake.
I’m saying they don’t want more whites as that would take away from their precious diversity that has been pushed and protected under very dubious conditions
While others seeing that don’t want those types anymore and are willing to accept Ukrainians. They are being dumb about it but they aren’t wrong

And I'm saying there's no reason to think that based on the source you cited, none at all. On the other hand you found it so outrageous to think that some might feel a little racism given the overt references to race in regards to the Ukrainians. Really weird double standard where you see anti-white racism despite no references to race but scoff at the idea of others sensing racism given explicit references to race.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

I'm going to flip this over, I've noticed brown and black people get highly offended by the idea that white people would be granted asylum in the first place. I think this is because it completely flips the intersectional pyramid on its head. It's the same as the child victims of gang rape in Britain, or the mass rapes in Germany, or the school attacks in France. These victims look like what you've been told ypur entire life the oppressor should look like. Except intersectionality is a cult of nonsense. It almost like some people can't feel empathy for light skinned people, and can only empathise with those who look like them. Kind of ironic.... given the thematic undertones of the thread.

Ukraine is European, it borders many of the countries that took the brunt of the migration crisis. Ukrainiand literally move one country over to get to Poland, Hungary, or Romania. Meanwhile, economic migrants move through multiple safe countries to get to where they are going before they even hit Europe.

The Ukrainian evacuation is being organized hy their government. The migrants are channelled by human traffickers, that then use those funds to support terrorism or import drugs into Europe. The most casual bit of research would show Europeans are in favour of refugees from UN processing centres, even African or Middle Eastern ones.

Also, Fortress Europe is a very real mindset. Much like many Indians generally have absolute distain for Brits or West Africans do for the French. For many centuries before the Age of Exploration, Europe was a global backwater that took invasion after invasion, apocalyptic diseases, and had its people enslaved and sold off to invaders. When they finally grew strong enough to strike back, they did with such ferocity as to never be in that weak position again. It is a similar mindset to China's Century of Humiliation or the LaRaza movement for Latino Amerindians

This is purely culturally based, not racial. Again, Christian Syrians are encouraged to move here. During the Muslim Brotherhood goverment, there were overtures to offer the Coptic Egyptians refugee status because of the open violence directed against them by Sunni supremecists. Multiracialism is essential for a people to survive, multiculturalism is being tested to its limits.

Grooming gangs in Britain have been exposed as statistical manipulation and alternative classification to make it seem as though theres huge differences in sexual predators that were Pakistani British compared to the White British population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

 

[SanchoMF]

Grooming gangs in Britain have been exposed as statistical manipulation and alternative classification to make it seem as though theres huge differences in sexual predators that were Pakistani British compared to the White British population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

Did you actually take the time to read the Home Office paper that the Guardian is referring to, the CSE's and the level of 'debunking' that paper tries to display?
There are some eyebrow-raising elements there (75-83) : absolutely nothing has been exposed and this just raises more questions.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Grooming gangs in Britain have been exposed as statistical manipulation and alternative classification to make it seem as though theres huge differences in sexual predators that were Pakistani British compared to the White British population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

The most prominent human traffickers in Europe are from Central and Eastern Europe, not Muslims. To be fair that's obviously because nations like Hungary and Poland are in the EU and have freedom of movement, if there was a Muslim country in the EU maybe they'd be the worst offenders. And also people tend to be more outraged by sex trafficking while Central/Eastern European traffickers have moved away from that and focus on labor trafficking.

 

[Rand M Arthur]

You said she "literally" told them that, its not semantics to point out she didn't. Its really shitty sure but its not relevant to the Ukraine crisis. You said you saw black and brown people being highly offended by the acceptance of these refugees and have yet to produce a single example, much less one of a relevant public figure.

I've already said I don't know how to link Instagram, if you don't want to believe me, go ahead. You haven't provided any sources for your claim that Europeans don't care about Syria.

I've noticed you've liked the below clowns post. His opinion was why tens of thousands o12 year old girls where silenced for 20 years after being gang raped, repeatedly. Several of the abuser even admitted in court that they were targetted for being kaffir slags. These neolibs and leftists are still clinging to their cult of intersectionality rather than admit that they are wrong.

Grooming gangs in Britain have been exposed as statistical manipulation and alternative classification to make it seem as though theres huge differences in sexual predators that were Pakistani British compared to the White British population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../home-office-report-grooming-gangs-not-muslim

The author of that article is using data from this report, but on page 26 it says that of correctly gathered data, white men make up 30% of offenders, and asian (read: British-Pakistani) make up 28% of offenders. So by absolute statistics they are right. But yet you are being intentionally obtuse or sadistically manipulative. Because white men make up 43% of the Britain, and asian (read: British-Pakistani) make up 3% of the Britain. Anyone with above a double digit IQ can see that asian (read: British-Pakistani) are fourteen times more likely to gangrape rape 12 year olds than white men, using the statistics from the article you thought was your trump card.

Clown.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I've already said I don't know how to link Instagram, if you don't want to believe me, go ahead. You haven't provided any sources for your claim that Europeans don't care about Syria.

Its not that I don't believe you, its that I don't think social media posts are that relevant here. You can find literal white nationalists on social media but its not representative.

I never said Europeans don't care about Syrians. When that picture of the drowned boy that I posted earlier emerged there was lots of sympathy for Syrians. What I'm arguing is that its kinda racist to explicitly contrast the Ukrainian refugees with those from Syria and other Arab countries based on their race. Idk why that's such a controversial idea. If you contrast them based on their proximity to EU countries or the gender/age demographics of the incoming refugees that's not necessarily racist. But saying that Ukraine is different because the refugees have blonde hair and blue eyes comes off as racist.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

Did you actually take the time to read the Home Office paper that the Guardian is referring to, the CSE's and the level of 'debunking' that paper tries to display?
There are some eyebrow-raising elements there (75-83) : absolutely nothing has been exposed and this just raises more questions.

I read parts of the literature review of the Home Office which is suppose to be more detailed. I couldnt find the Home office paper your referring to with pages 75-83 could you link that. The CSE reports says data quality for ethnicity is incomplete and often unreliable due to reporting of ethnicity being done by the output of the officers assigned to case which has lead to mischaracterization of white british and afghan perperators as Asian (South Asian).

 

[So Fresh]

Its not that I don't believe you, its that I don't think social media posts are that relevant here. You can find literal white nationalists on social media but its not representative.

I never said Europeans don't care about Syrians. When that picture of the drowned boy that I posted earlier emerged there was lots of sympathy for Syrians. What I'm arguing is that its kinda racist to explicitly contrast the Ukrainian refugees with those from Syria and other Arab countries based on their race. Idk why that's such a controversial idea. If you contrast them based on their proximity to EU countries or the gender/age demographics of the incoming refugees that's not necessarily racist. But saying that Ukraine is different because the refugees have blonde hair and blue eyes comes off as racist.

There is also kind of a botched view of how Europeans react to refugees. Populist and far right politcians make it seem like “the people” are against refugees while most of the time the people are far less likely to oppose refugees. It’s just the opposing group is far more vocal.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

As far as the past decade is concerned this simply isn't true.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this not being true?

There was extremely vocal opposition to Syrian refugees coming into places like Hungary and Slovakia. The refugee crisis largely serves as the backdrop to the rise of nationalist right wing governments in many European jurisdictions.

The same could be said of refugees fleeing civil conflict in Central and Latin America. The "migrant caravans full of rapists and drug dealers" was a conversation topic in the news for months.

Anti refugee sentiment isn't just confined to European and North American countries - Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh were attacked by locals, and many lived in squalid conditions in temporary settlements that were erected.

We shouldn't conflate a country accepting refugees as the same thing as a country being supportive of refugees.

 

[So Fresh]

I've already said I don't know how to link Instagram, if you don't want to believe me, go ahead. You haven't provided any sources for your claim that Europeans don't care about Syria.

I've noticed you've liked the below clowns post. His opinion was why tens of thousands o12 year old girls where silenced for 20 years after being gang raped, repeatedly. Several of the abuser even admitted in court that they were targetted for being kaffir slags. These neolibs and leftists are still clinging to their cult of intersectionality rather than admit that they are wrong.



The author of that article is using data from this report, but on page 26 it says that of correctly gathered data, white men make up 30% of offenders, and asian (read: British-Pakistani) make up 28% of offenders. So by absolute statistics they are right. But yet you are being intentionally obtuse or sadistically manipulative. Because white men make up 43% of the Britain, and asian (read: British-Pakistani) make up 3% of the Britain. Anyone with above a double digit IQ can see that asian (read: British-Pakistani) are fourteen times more likely to gangrape rape 12 year olds than white men, using the statistics from the article you thought was your trump card.

Clown.

Is abuse by white catholic priest taken in account?

 

[Brampton_Boy]

I remember people in Europe being very sympathetic to Muslim refugees Canada as well. Not sure where you are getting this idea that there is a double standard. Now later on once the crime increased people did become more hesitant but that was much later.

I will agree with you with respect to Canada, but there was extremely vocal opposition to Syrian refugees across multiple European countries. While yes, places like Sweden, Germany and England opened their doors, there were others such as Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia etc. etc. who outright said no and closed their borders to them.

To reiterate, I think it's within a countries right to decide who to let in, and who they do not. As far as I have seen so far, no country has said "no" to Ukrainian refugees (and I think this is good - we should help if we are able). It's just ironic when a country like Hungary, whose president called migrants and muslims a "poison", are now welcoming refugees with open arms.

I think it's important to acknowledge that there is definitely an idea of "good vs. bad" refugee, which is often associated with skin color, ethnicity and religion. With that being said, there could be legitimate reasons for why people have these associations. The idea of cultural compatibility is an important one, and I understand why people would be less sympathetic to a group who refuses to assimilate, but is willing to accept social assistance, free health care etc.

It's one of the reasons why I understood when Ukranian border guards were discriminating against South Asian and African students (and males in particular). You come to the country to study, but when shit hits the fan, you want the first ticket out - of course people are going to be upset about that, particularly when they are sending their own citizens to die.

 

[MicroBrew]

I want to preface this by saying that the situation in the Ukraine is tragic, and civilians looking to leave the country should be welcomed by others who have the capacity to take them in.

With that being said, the Ukrainian crisis has highlighted the disparate response by the western world in how it perceives and treats refugees. Some people have been very blunt in their assessment of the situation

"These are not refugees from Syria, these are from Ukraine, they are Christians, they are white, they look very similar to us."

“It’s really emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed…”

There are dozens of examples of this, but you get my point - the humanitarian response to the Ukrainian crisis has been overwhelming, with millions of dollars being donated to help provide aide, countries opening their borders to welcome displaced people. Canada is even offering immediate work permits and access to social services, while some of our universities are eliminating tuition for foreign students from the Ukraine.

I am not principally opposed to any of these things - I think that when you have the ability to help, you should help. I am more interested in hearing your thoughts as to why there is a double standard - the notion of a "good refugee" and a "bad refugee". Is it something as simple as race, or are their dimensions of the Ukrainian conflict that make the world more sympathetic to their displacement?

Personally, I think there are three primary drivers:
1) The most obvious one being race and to a lesser degree, religion. Given that Ukrainian's "look like us" and their culture and values are seemingly more compatible and relatable to the average Westerner.
2) Ukraine enjoyed a (relative) degree of affluence and development relative to other countries prone to conflict, and their displacement is seen as something that nobody would have expected. If it could happen there, it could happen here.
3) There are broader global implications associated with the conflict and Russia being seen as a growing aggressor. As a result, we want to support Ukraine and its people, in a demonstration to show countries like Russia and China that the world will not tolerate bullies.

I do however find it somewhat perverse that we are able to generate hundreds of millions of dollars to support Ukraine and it's people, but the world balks at providing meaningful aid to war torn countries where children are literally starving to death. When Syrian refugees were fleeing the Putin backed Assad regime, they were turned away at gun point or faced razor wire fences. There are numerous stories of families who walked hundreds of kilometers to flee gang violence in Central America, only to be turned away by American border agents.

This is a topic that hits closer to home, as I once worked on a project in Yemen (Kharaz refugee camp) and witnessed saw what the ravages of civil war could do to displaced people.

If we have room for one, but not the other, what should the guiding criteria be? What makes a good refugee, and why do we have sympathy for some, but not all?

For the record, this isn't some sort of race baiting topic, I am genuinely curious - every country should have the right decide who they let in, using whatever criteria they want.

The treatment of Brown and Black people fleeing Ukraine by some Polish and Ukrainian border guards is racial. Yet I do not think the importance the West is giving to the Ukraine conflict is because of race. In the Serbia-Kosovo war of the 90s, the West attacked White Christian people and supported White Muslim people.

Lots of North African and MiddleEastern refugees have been allowed to settle in Western Europe. Austrian media and government even suppressed the fact that the majority of rapes against Austrian women was by Afghans. The Western establishment doesn't really care about the average White local, they care about the elites losing power. Attacks against the average White European by refugees is not threatening the Western elites. Russia attacking Ukraine is perceived as a real threat to the Western elites.

 

[Bojka]

I will agree with you with respect to Canada, but there was extremely vocal opposition to Syrian refugees across multiple European countries. While yes, places like Sweden, Germany and England opened their doors, there were others such as Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia, Croatia etc. etc. who outright said no and closed their borders to them.

To reiterate, I think it's within a countries right to decide who to let in, and who they do not. As far as I have seen so far, no country has said "no" to Ukrainian refugees (and I think this is good - we should help if we are able). It's just ironic when a country like Hungary, whose president called migrants and muslims a "poison", are now welcoming refugees with open arms.

I think it's important to acknowledge that there is definitely an idea of "good vs. bad" refugee, which is often associated with skin color, ethnicity and religion. With that being said, there could be legitimate reasons for why people have these associations. The idea of cultural compatibility is an important one, and I understand why people would be less sympathetic to a group who refuses to assimilate, but is willing to accept social assistance, free health care etc.

It's one of the reasons why I understood when Ukranian border guards were discriminating against South Asian and African students (and males in particular). You come to the country to study, but when shit hits the fan, you want the first ticket out - of course people are going to be upset about that, particularly when they are sending their own citizens to die.

Hungary's President has explicitly welcomed Christian immigrants. It isn't ironic in the slightest. Hungary has a birth rate below replacement and this is a good opportunity to bring in young people who, aside from language, are barely distinguishable from Hungarians.

I agree 100% with your last point. It's rather obvious why there would be a negative sentiment toward people leaving. Whether it's reasonable or not, it's clear why it exists.

 

[SL1200]

Huh? Basically all of the refugees and migrants taken in by western western countries have been non white for decades.

The Ukrainian refugees are women and children, while the men stayed back to fight. Nobody wants a bunch of 30 year old men refugees who left the women and children behind.

This! Exactly this. It pisses me off that people frame it like all of a sudden we're not critical anymore because "they look like us" and "they are white". Fuck that! The difference is a swarm of young unmotivated men or women and children leaving a warzone while their husbands are fighting for freedom. Sickening to hear nonsense like that.