News Islam was 8 lbs heavier than first Volk fight

[moosaev]

The early part of fight camps may be for conditioning if fighters are out of shape which belies your theory that they're always in shape. Fight camps are for honing skills they've already learned and being at a peak performance for the fight. That's why they spar a lot.
Islam looked like he had been honing his striking game a lot in camp. Volk didn't even land a punch before the KO. He looked like a guy who literally rolled off the couch to fight. He even admitted afterwards that Islam isn't a guy you should fight if you're not seriously training for it. His hubris thinking he could do it came back to bite him on the ass.

Firstly, being "in shape" and being "in condition" are two different things. You can be ripped with a 6 pack and still gas after 3 rounds. Conditioning builds up your ability to expend energy for longer durations, don't confuse that with being "in shape".

Also, most high level combat athletes aren't very active so they use training camps to reduce ring/cage rust and hone their timing, in addition to conditioning. Volk has been the most active fighter in the UFC, so this whole "getting off the couch" thing only goes so far with him. He didn't have the rust that inactive fighters typically have to shake off. The fact that he got KO'd in round 1 significantly reduces the lack of training camp as an excuse. If Volk got KO'd in rd 3-4 you might have a point.

 

[Wonderfight]

Trouble making weight? He's never missed weight once. Not once. Ever.

Y'all haters are such a precious bunch. Bless your hearts. Though some brain blessing wouldn't hurt either.

Khabib missed weight only once in his life in 2013, but he was still dying to make it until the end of his career. Didn’t miss, but obviously had troubles every time. Not missing doesn’t mean you are not big for the division.

 

[Megatronlee]

You non mma fighting guys really annoy me

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

More than not ideal with knowledge we have today. Even considered stupid because it is proven to make a big difference a lot of the times. You cannot replace fight-speed level sparring and conditioning with being in regular shape. Every facet of your game is affected greatly, at least on the level we are talking about. If you saw how Volk’s camp looked like last time, you knew that it was not possible for him to come on the same level.

I know it is not easy, but I tell you, you will never see Islam fight without full camp with gruesome amounts of high-level sparring rounds and conditioning. You saw him fight 8 lbs lighter and you would see it again if something like that happens. But okay, I guess we will not agree on this one regardless.

I think the difference is that Islam didn't choose to be 8 lbs dehydrated--it's something that he had to deal with as a surprise development.

Islam basically had no choice but to fight that way, as cancelling the match hours before the main event would have certainly gotten him stripped of the title and fucked over by the UFC forever.

But if you put a gun to Islam's head and made him choose between both scenarios, he would 100% choose no fight camp vs 8 lbs dehydrated.

 

[HolmeZy55]

Training camps are mostly for conditioning, top level professionals (like Volk) do technique training and sparring all year round basically. The conditioning didn't factor into this fight because it was a 1st round KO.

Training camps aren't just about conditioning, though it does play a big part. Fighters coming into a fight without a camp aren't just affected physically but also mentally, it prepares a fighter in every aspect of combat. Just because Volk got stopped in the first round, doesn't mean him having no camp didn't play into it because it most certainly did.

If you honestly think having only 12 days notice coming off the couch not to mention him having surgery only a couple of months prior didn't affect him both physically and mentally then you're delusional, and this isn't making excuses for Volk it's simply a fact.

 

[Wonderfight]

I think the difference is that Islam didn't choose to be 8 lbs dehydrated--it's something that he had to deal with as a surprise development.

Islam basically had no choice but to fight that way, as cancelling the match hours before the main event would have certainly gotten him stripped of the title and fucked over by the UFC forever.

But if you put a gun to Islam's head and made him choose between both scenarios, he would 100% choose no fight camp vs 8 lbs dehydrated.

Well I cannot say that he wouldn’t because that is hypothetical situation, I will just say that I believe that he wouldn’t.

Regardless of that, it was a dumb decision on Volk’s part because this is not some random top 30 fight and I cannot see Islam doing what he did.
Mind you, I don’t hate Islam, he might be the best fighter today, at least one of them. I just think that Volk didn’t give himself a fair chance. He would get that rematch regardless and I don’t know why he rushed with it. Didn’t even mention the surgery and all the other things which come with 11 days notice.

 

[moosaev]

Training camps aren't just about conditioning, though it does play a big part. Fighters coming into a fight without a camp aren't just affected physically but also mentally, it prepares a fighter in every aspect of combat. Just because Volk got stopped in the first round, doesn't mean him having no camp didn't play into it because it most certainly did.

If you honestly think having only 12 days notice coming off the couch not to mention him having surgery only a couple of months prior didn't affect him both physically and mentally then you're delusional, and this isn't making excuses for Volk it's simply a fact.

The lack of training camp didn't affect him physically, the fight lasted 3 minutes buddy. As for the mental part, we're talking about cage fighting, there are many things that affect fighters mentally. No fighter ever has perfect conditions, the question is whether Volk not having a camp affected him so much that it would've determined how that fight went? I say no. Training camp wouldn't have prevented that headkick, Islam made the adjustments.

 

[UFConFOX]

Khabib missed weight only once in his life in 2013, but he was still dying to make it until the end of his career. Didn’t miss, but obviously had troubles every time. Not missing doesn’t mean you are not big for the division.

Ah, there's the first goal-post move. So now we've introduced Khabib. A fighter that was notorious in the middle portion of his UFC tenure for having issues with the scale. He is my favorite fighter, but I'm happy to admit that.

The second goalpost move - "not big for the division." Once again, not what I replied to. What I replied to was a literal quote that Islam has, "trouble making weight."

It's not about Khabib. It's not about big for the division. It's about taking liberties and downplaying a guy by suggesting he has had "trouble making weight", when in fact he has never missed weight once, not ever....ever....never.

Mental gymnastic and semantic your way through whatever mechanism you need to downplay Islam. But he's never missed contracted weight, ever.

 

[Davidjacksonjones]

 

[Wonderfight]

Ah, there's the first goal-post move. So now we've introduced Khabib. A fighter that was notorious in the middle portion of his UFC tenure for having issues with the scale. He is my favorite fighter, but I'm happy to admit that.

The second goalpost move - "not big for the division." Once again, not what I replied to. What I replied to was a literal quote that Islam has, "trouble making weight."

It's not about Khabib. It's not about big for the division. It's about taking liberties and downplaying a guy by suggesting he has had "trouble making weight", when in fact he has never missed weight once, not ever....ever....never.

Mental gymnastic and semantic your way through whatever mechanism you need to downplay Islam. But he's never missed contracted weight, ever.

I am not downplaying Islam, I think he might be the best fighter in the world after Jon Jones. Only thing I am trying to say is that not missing a weight doesn’t mean you are not big.

Also that is even less important than my original post, and that is the fact that I believe that having a surgery and having to cut 20-something lbs in 11 days without a training camp is a bigger detriment than what Islam had to go through and he would never in a million years do the same thing.

 

[HolmeZy55]

The lack of training camp didn't affect him physically, the fight lasted 3 minutes buddy

I will say again, conditioning is the not the only aspect to a fight camp, these guys are not marathon runners they are fighters, so Volk had no time to spar, grapple, wrestle, no strength training, very little game planning, his reflexes and timing would've been diminished etc etc. So to say it wouldn't affect him physically overall is just silly.

As for the mental part, we're talking about cage fighting, there are many things that affect fighters mentally. No fighter ever has perfect conditions, the question is whether Volk not having a camp affected him so much that it would've determined how that fight went? I say no.

You can say whatever you want but that doesn't make it true, the fact is Volk didn't have a camp, he did come in on 12 days notice and he did come in having surgery only a couple of months prior, so would that have changed the outcome, well we saw the first fight when he did have a camp and the outcome was different, so that's all we can really go on, there is no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Oscar Madison]

Lucky kick.

Islam+ was afraid to go the distance with Couch Potato Volk. amirite

 

[UFConFOX]

I am not downplaying Islam, I think he might be the best fighter in the world after Jon Jones. Only thing I am trying to say is that not missing a weight doesn’t mean you are not big.

Also that is even less important than my original post, and that is the fact that I believe that having a surgery and having to cut 20-something lbs in 11 days without a training camp is a bigger detriment than what Islam had to go through and he would never in a million years do the same thing.

Objectively, that's just you/Volk and his fans' opinion vs Islam.

Islam said in the press conference very specifically:

- If he was offered the money Volk was
- If his belt wasn't on the line
- If he had an opportunity to avenge a loss
- If he had a chance to be double champ at a higher weight class

If those elements were in place, similar to what was in place for Volk, he would absolutely accept. Without any hesitation. In effect, this combination of factors is what Islam calls "nothing to lose." You can choose not to believe it. And you can rightly argue there are other circumstances you've framed such as Volk's surgery, etc. But ultimately for Islam it comes down to those critical variables which, if in place, he said he would be a go.

And yes dude I agree he is big for the division. That's why I didn't quote reply arguing against. Objectively, it's inarguable.

 

[wwkirk]

Weird making a rivalry between fighters in different weight classes into such a big deal.
It's normal, it's to be expected that in modern MMA the fighter from the heavier weight class will win.

Volk winning = Shocker
Islam winning = Par for the course

 

[moosaev]

You can say whatever you want but that doesn't make it true, the fact is Volk didn't have a camp, he did come in on 12 days notice and he did come in having surgery only a couple of months prior, so would that have changed the outcome, well we saw the first fight when he did have a camp and the outcome was different,

What i find funny is that you're willing to grant Volk all the handicaps around not having a training camp, etc. but you aren't willing to grant Islam the handicap of not being fully rehydrated? Maybe if Islam was fully rehydrated in Perth he would've sparked Volk out, ever think of that?

 

[HolmeZy55]

What i find funny is that you're willing to grant Volk all the handicaps around not having a training camp, etc. but you aren't willing to grant Islam the handicap of not being fully rehydrated? Maybe if Islam was fully rehydrated in Perth he would've sparked Volk out, ever think of that?

I don't buy the "wasn't hydrated properly" excuse, every single other fighter on that same card had the same 24hr rehydration time, yet only Islam was apparently affected by the shorter time frame.

In any case it doesn't matter what's the point of arguing further, Volk did take the short notice fight and Islam won, end of story.

 

[moosaev]

I don't buy the "wasn't hydrated properly" excuse, every single other fighter on that same card had the same 24hr rehydration time, yet only Islam was apparently affected by the shorter time frame.

In any case it doesn't matter what's the point of arguing further, Volk did take the short notice fight and Islam won, end of story.

Volk had to cut less weight than Islam, therefore he didn't need as much time to fully rehydrate. You're being deliberately obtuse now. The shorter rehydration window was a handicap for Islam that Volk didn't have, that isn't an opinion it's a fact.

 

[daniel san]

This puts to bed the question about whether the shorter rehydration window affected the first fight, it absolutely did.

How? Are we not taking into account that 1) Volk took it on short notice and 2) these rematches usually end up worse for the fighter who lost in the first fight.

 

[Celeron]

He didn't exactly prove he was the better fighter (even if he likely is). Yes, Volk could have defended the kick, but Islam probably doesn't get to hit that in 90% of the LW division, given they are usually at least the same height as him.

But I agree that it puts the «rivalry» to rest given that it was a KO in the 1st round (even if one may argue that jumping into this fight on 10 days notice kinda carries with it a «rushing/reckless» mindset).

Im sorry but if a knockout which is the ultimate goal doesn’t prove someone is a better fighter, then I don’t know what more he could have done. He already won the first, KO’d him in the 2nd, does a dominant decision need to be had in order for Islam to convince you?

 

[potatoReloaded]

Im sorry but if a knockout which is the ultimate goal doesn’t prove someone is a better fighter, then I don’t know what more he could have done. He already won the first, KO’d him in the 2nd, does a dominant decision need to be had in order for Islam to convince you?

I am pretty sure Islam would win most of the times against Volk, and I even kinda do think he is the better fighter of the two, so I understand your point. However, and never mind that being a specific matchup which doesn't define a fighter as a whole, my main point is that it was a smaller guy challenging a bigger guy. I know it's not the same as saying Bob Sapp is a better fighter than Floyd Mayweather just because he'd likely KO him every time, but you get the idea.

I guess a more fair comparison could be Jan Blachowicz and Izzy. Izzy lost their champ vs champ fight and would probably lose if they fought again, but Izzy still looks like the better fighter of the two.