International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. III

[San Marino]

Wonder what prompted the vet to pull out his DD214 (is that what it's called?) before the video started?

What DD-214 at the beginning of the video?

 

[terrapin]

This thread is a microcosm of when your belief in something is so strong that you simply cannot change your mind and willfully ignore facts

its more about moral development and integrity than belief.

 

[San Marino]

ISW - Israeli/Hamas Conflict, 29 October 2023.

• The al Qassem Brigade—the militant wing of Hamas—likely conducted a complex attack targeting the IDF at the Erez checkpoint.
• The al Qassem Brigades and Saraya al Quds—the militant wing of PIJ— claimed a joint complex attack on the IDF in al Amiriya.
• Saraya al Quds claimed a complex attack on the IDF advancing along the Gaza coast.
• Palestinian militants clashed with Israeli forces and held large, anti-Israel demonstrations at their usual rate across the West Bank.
• Iranian-backed militants, including Lebanese Hezbollah, conducted seven attacks into Israel.
• Iranian-backed militants claimed two attacks targeting US forces in Syria.
• Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi gave an interview with Arabic-language outlet al Jazeera, during which he tried to rally the support of the Arab world for Iran and the Axis of Resistance in opposing Israel. This messaging is likely meant to support the Iranian effort to disrupt Israeli normalization with Arab states by concentrating attention on Israel-Palestinian relations.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Why would that be cause for whole streets of housing to be wiped out?

That doesn't make any sense?

How do you want the IDF to handle it? They can pop up in any of those houses and there is no way for them to know which since Hamas is embedded in the populace. You can point out that it’s a war crime because it is, but so is what Hamas is doing.

Unfortunately the only way I see this ending is when the Palestinians turn on Hamas. I think we’ve only seen the top of the iceberg in this conflict

 

[7even]

Wow, that's intense. Wonder what prompted the vet to pull out his DD214 (is that what it's called?) before the video started?

Veterans Affairs I.D. card. Good to have whenever you go to a Veterans Affairs hospital.

 

[tastaylvr]

How do you want the IDF to handle it? They can pop up in any of those houses and there is no way for them to know which since Hamas is embedded in the populace. You can point out that it’s a war crime because it is, but so is what Hamas is doing.

Unfortunately the only way I see this ending is when the Palestinians turn on Hamas. I think we’ve only seen the top of the iceberg in this conflict

History begins and ends with Hamas for you huh?

 

[Rholk]

 

[dannialn]

This new 'Netanyahu is responsible for hamas' is actually amusing. This is the same Netanyahu the same people accused of genocide all the previous 3 times Israel went on an operation on Gaza right?

It's like 'Israel is bad because it puts a blockade on Gaza and prevents the enter of goods, but it's also bad because it transfers funds to hamas which is the ruling party on Gaza'.

The Jew can't win with you guys huh?

 

[Blayt7hh]

History begins and ends with Hamas for you huh?

I’m not talking about the history of the conflict at all in that post. I can see that you want to just go over it endlessly though and not talk about where it goes from here.

 

[High Test With da Best]

What DD-214 at the beginning of the video?

See post below

Veterans Affairs I.D. card. Good to have whenever you go to a Veterans Affairs hospital.

Good eye

 

[tastaylvr]

I’m not talking about the history of the conflict at all in that post. I can see that you want to just go over it endlessly though and not talk about where it goes from here.

It must be nice that you only want to talk from 7/10. It must be easy to create arguments when you set your own random parameters and ignore everything else.

"what can Israel do?"

What can Palestinians do then?

Do you think this issue ends when Hamas is wiped out? This has been happening before Hamas and will continue after Hamas is wiped out. Israel has always aimed for civilians since the start. This is not a new phenomena. To quote the Israelis. "They were living like Europeans". They wanted peace by killing Palestinians living like Europeans.

I understand you want to create excuses for them "but but what can they do when Hamas etc etc". You can create any excuse you want when the global media is on your side.

Israel has wanted all the land from the start and they continue to act like that is what they still want. This has been documented from their leaders since their inception and they still hold that agenda.

 

[DEVILsSON]

What many people fail to recognize in Bibi and his coalition is that he's a direct reflection/culmination/manifestation to the non stop violence from the Palestinians. Bibi is every bit the security measure of everything else that Israel has undertaken. Bibi is the security fence. Bibi is the blockade. Bibi is the check points. Bibi is the IronDome. Bibi is the siren system in place. Bibi is the bomb shelters. Bibi is more Israelis now legally allowed to possess rifles.

If not for these barbaric attacks Bibi would be facing prison sentence for bribery charges. I honestly don't know if he did or didn't do it but that would be the reality.

Before the October 7th attack, Israel has had several elections in a span of a couple years because the Likkud party couldn't win enough votes and the coalitions kept failing. This attack actually united the coalition and Israeli people in general. Except those on the extreme ideological left. However those lemmings are only able to hold those views because the majority of others are actually rational adults. If not for the attack, many people were pushing for more moderate policies and approach.

I used to be far more liberal on this issue and had far more empathy for the Palestinians however over time it became clear that they do not want peace. It is not profitable to those living in Qatar, UAE, and elsewhere. The Palestinian people have also become indoctrinated beyond the point that a 2 state solution is even possible. After Arafat turned down every peace proposal in 2002, I knew even the more moderate ones like him were not negotiating in good faith.

I have been in a situation like negotiation with Arafat. In my situation, it boiled down to the person in front of me simply not having the authority to negotiate(he was basically a middleman). I eventually did go before someone that did have the authority. Perhaps if Israelis met with those who had the actual authority maybe it would have worked or maybe not. Sometimes there are figureheads with little actual authority. I have a feeling Arafat was a lot like Medvedev when he was briefly Russian president for 4 years.

Finally having heard a figure of 300 miles of tunnels in Gaza, it got me wondering of how much that must have cost? Is anyone here a civil engineer and can provide a ballpark cost? I am guessing billions?

 

[DEVILsSON]

This is not a compliment that they think it is...at least it shouldn't be...

Also Iran may get jealous...

""We are very attentive to this list and we will handle it carefully because we look at Russia as our closest friend," Marzouk was cited as saying."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-seeking-eight-gaza-hostages-105801516.html

"
Hamas is seeking eight Gaza hostages at Russia's request - RIA
Reuters
Sat, October 28, 2023 at 3:58 AM PDT·1 min read
476

Senior Hamas officials meet with Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Bogdanov
(Reuters) - Hamas is looking for eight people identified by Russia as possibly being among the hostages in Gaza and is ready to free them, Hamas Politburo member Abu Marzouk told Russian state news agency RIA on Saturday.

RIA cited Marzouk, who has been visiting Moscow, as saying that the Russian foreign ministry had handed over a list of eight names, all of whom had dual citizenship.

"We are very attentive to this list and we will handle it carefully because we look at Russia as our closest friend," Marzouk was cited as saying.

"Now we are looking for those people. It's difficult, but we are looking. And as soon as we find them, we will release them. Despite the difficulties due to the current situation."

Russia on Friday defended its decision to invite a Hamas delegation to Moscow against strong Israeli criticism, saying it was necessary to maintain contacts with all sides in the conflict.
"

 

[Hellowhosthat]

What many people fail to recognize in Bibi and his coalition is that he's a direct reflection to the non stop violence from the Palestinians. Bibi is every bit the security measure of everything else that Israel has undertaken. Bibi is the security fence. Bibi is the blockade. Bibi is the check points. Bibi is the IronDome. Bibi is the siren system in place. Bibi is the bomb shelters. Bibi is more Israelis now legally allowed to possess rifles.

If not for these barbaric attacks Bibi would be facing prison sentence for bribery charges. I honestly don't know if he did or didn't do it but that would be the reality.

Before the October 7th attack, Israel has had several elections in a span of a couple years because the Likkud party couldn't win enough votes and the coalitions kept failing. This attack actually united the coalition and Israeli people in general. Except those on the extreme ideological left. However those lemmings are only able to hold those view because the majority of others are actually rational adults. If not for the attack, many people were pushing for more moderate policies and approach.

I used to be far more liberal on this issue and had far more empathy for the Palestinians however over time it became clear that they do not want peace. It is not profitable to those living in Qatar, UAE, and elsewhere. The Palestinian people have also become indoctrinated beyond the point that a 2 state solution is even possible. After Arafat turned down every peace proposal in 2002, I knew even the more moderate ones like him were not negotiating in good faith.

I have been in a situation like negotiation with Arafat. In my situation, it boiled down to the person in front of me simply not having the authority to negotiate(he was basically a middleman). I eventually did go before someone that did have the authority. Perhaps if Israelis met with those who had the actual authority maybe it would have worked or maybe not. Sometimes there are figureheads with little actual authority. I have a feeling Arafat was a lot like Medvedev when he was briefly Russian president for 4 years.

Finally having heard a figure of 300 miles of tunnels in Gaza, it got me wondering of how much that must have cost? Is anyone here a civil engineer and can provide a ballpark cost? I am guessing billions?

I doubt the tunnel network is built to the kind of standard we'd expect in the West. Cost would depend very much on what it actually is I think.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I doubt the tunnel network is built to the kind of standard we'd expect in the West. Cost would depend very much on what it actually is I think.

No doubt but they do seem pretty decent.

I can only go by numbers I have seen for Mexican smuggling tunnels. In this article it states an average tunnel cost 1-2 million. One tunnel mentioned in the article is 0.54 miles long. So based on Mexican estimates this would be 2-4 million per 1 mile. Based on this estimate it would be 0.6-1.2 billion. However I suspect Hamas builds far more intricate structures. For example they built a command post under the hospital several stories deep.

Would 2-5 billion be an over estimate? Would labor and materials be cheaper or pricier in Gaza than in Tijuana?


https://www.newsweek.com/us-mexico-border-drug-tunnel-costs-rewards-386978

 

[Blayt7hh]

It must be nice that you only want to talk from 7/10. It must be easy to create arguments when you set your own random parameters and ignore everything else.

"what can Israel do?"

What can Palestinians do then?

Do you think this issue ends when Hamas is wiped out? This has been happening before Hamas and will continue after Hamas is wiped out. Israel has always aimed for civilians since the start. This is not a new phenomena. To quote the Israelis. "They were living like Europeans". They wanted peace by killing Palestinians living like Europeans.

I understand you want to create excuses for them "but but what can they do when Hamas etc etc". You can create any excuse you want when the global media is on your side.

Israel has wanted all the land from the start and they continue to act like that is what they still want. This has been documented from their leaders since their inception and they still hold that agenda.

All this long meandering post is is you admitting that Israel has no other option for dealing with Hamas. You could have just said that.

Im not interested in digging through the history of Israel anymore- this is the third iteration of this thread and it’s been done to death. I will say though I don’t put much stock in the opinion of anyone that think Palestine is innocent and Israel is the only bad actor here.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

No doubt but they do seem pretty decent.

I can only go by numbers I have seen for Mexican smuggling tunnels. In this article it states an average tunnel cost 1-2 million. One tunnel mentioned in the article is 0.54 miles long. So based on Mexican estimates this would be 2-4 million per 1 mile. Based on this estimate it would be 0.6-1.2 billion. However I suspect Hamas builds far more intricate structures. For example they built a command post under the hospital several stories deep.

Would 2-5 billion be an over estimate? Would labor and materials be cheaper or pricier in Gaza than in Tijuana?


https://www.newsweek.com/us-mexico-border-drug-tunnel-costs-rewards-386978

I guess it depends on who designs and builds them and how much you have to pay them to do it. If they can effectively get that for free and then only have the material and equipment cost maybe it works out cheaper.

But I suppose ultimately only Hamas know (and even then I'm not sure how good their accounts department is).

 

[Samjj]

I guess it depends on who designs and builds them and how much you have to pay them to do it. If they can effectively get that for free and then only have the material and equipment cost maybe it works out cheaper.

But I suppose ultimately only Hamas know (and even then I'm not sure how good their accounts department is).

I saw estimates of around 25 million per tunnel based on using prefabricated concrete. Don’t know how that correlates to actual value of the whole tunnel system but that is a ton of money.
No one is naive as to where the “aid” money goes in Gaza. The fuckers dug up and destroyed their own water system in order to build more rockets.

 

[tastaylvr]

All this long meandering post is is you admitting that Israel has no other option for dealing with Hamas. You could have just said that.

Im not interested in digging through the history of Israel anymore- this is the third iteration of this thread and it’s been done to death. I will say though I don’t put much stock in the opinion of anyone that think Palestine is innocent and Israel is the only bad actor here.

do you understand how stupid it is to ask an answer for such a ridiculous question?

Why do you ask what Israel should do to eliminate Hamas? Have you not ever asked yourself how stupid it is to want to eliminate all of Hamas?

America couldn’t eliminate the Taliban in how many years with their military might yet you want me to give Israel a blue print of how to eliminate Hamas?

There obviously isn’t a world where this happens. Seek some help.

You obviously think there is no alternative so Israel should keep bombing the millions of people in Gaza so they can hopefully kill the 30k Hamas members.

is this really how you think?

rnt you a fucking vet?? God dam man

 

[Scerpi]

How do you want the IDF to handle it? They can pop up in any of those houses and there is no way for them to know which since Hamas is embedded in the populace. You can point out that it’s a war crime because it is, but so is what Hamas is doing.

Unfortunately the only way I see this ending is when the Palestinians turn on Hamas. I think we’ve only seen the top of the iceberg in this conflict

This has a very real chance at going Global

Supported by ignorant progressives who have zero understanding the radical Muslims are NOTHING like college protestors.

What happens when the “Enemy of your Enemy” turns out to be not your friend, but far worse than you imagined