Crime Michigan School Shooter's Mom on Trial for Manslaughter (Update: Guilty on all 4 counts) (Update 3: Father guilty on all counts)

Krixes said:
Not equal but both are bad. If you 100% know your kid has a gun, and you look the other way that's worse. Most of these parents would just deny knowing anything if they were to be convicted though.
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But the crux here isn't that they knew their son had stolen a gun, or gotten one from a friend. The argument is that there were numerous red flags, and these parents decided to go BUY a gun for their son.

"If you 100% know your kid has a gun" still isn't as bad as buying a gun for a child who has asked you for help for his mental well-being. Kind of hard to deny you knew they had a gun when your signature is on the paperwork to buy it.
 
KnockoutsGalore said:
But the crux here isn't that they knew their son had stolen a gun, or gotten one from a friend. The argument is that there were numerous red flags, and these parents decided to go BUY a gun for their son.

"If you 100% know your kid has a gun" still isn't as bad as buying a gun for a child who has asked you for help for his mental well-being. Kind of hard to deny you knew they had a gun when your signature is on the paperwork to buy it.
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If you buy your kid a gun, you can't use the "I didn't know excuse".
 
Krixes said:
If you buy your kid a gun, you can't use the "I didn't know excuse".
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So then how does this trial become a slippery slope for those that don't buy their mentally disturbed children guns instead of getting them help using the resources that are at hand?
 
KnockoutsGalore said:
So then how does this trial become a slippery slope for those that don't buy their mentally disturbed children guns instead of getting them help using the resources that are at hand?
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Looking the other way is no excuse...It's a slippery slope imo...
 
Krixes said:
Looking the other way is no excuse...It's a slippery slope imo...
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You just can't really explain why, since you admit that the slope you're talking about is different than what this trial has focused on. Cool.
 
pv3Hpv3p said:
And after showing disturbing evidence of the kids mental issues they still refused to address anything... choosing to leave him in school...
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This is probably more common than many of us would like to think.
 
Being a responsible gun owner includes making sure your guns are locked away from non authorized access, especially if you know your kid has some mental issues

manslaughter via neglect does seem appropriate here.
 
HockeyBjj said:
Being a responsible gun owner includes making sure your guns are locked away from non authorized access, especially if you know your kid has some mental issues

manslaughter via neglect does seem appropriate here.
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To further point towards their commitment to gun safety, the guns they DID have locked away in a safe (not just in a drawer like the one that was used to murder 4 kids) had the combination 0-0-0 to get into the safe.
 
I've got no problem with holding parents accountable for this.

However as stated let's see what happens when some gangbangers mother is held responsible when she knew he had a gun and he is convicted of a drive by.
 
oldshadow said:
I've got no problem with holding parents accountable for this.

However as stated let's see what happens when some gangbangers mother is held responsible when she knew he had a gun and he is convicted of a drive by.
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Based on the article here is a helluva difference.
Here is a kid with mental problems that asked for help and his parents refusing him help.
They even got to see a drawing he made
"The parents were presented with a disturbing drawing their son had scrawled on an assignment. It depicted a gun and bullet and the lines, “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me. The world is dead. My life is useless.”"

This is not just about him having access to a gun imo, its about them knowing he had mental problems and refusing him help. Even on the day of the shooting they refused to take him home... and knowing about his thought and issues they did nothing to make it harder for him to access weapons.


Imo this is a long way from a mother having a criminal gang banging son.
 
lsa said:
Based on the article here is a helluva difference.
Here is a kid with mental problems that asked for help and his parents refusing him help.
They even got to see a drawing he made
"The parents were presented with a disturbing drawing their son had scrawled on an assignment. It depicted a gun and bullet and the lines, “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me. The world is dead. My life is useless.”"

This is not just about him having access to a gun imo, its about them knowing he had mental problems and refusing him help. Even on the day of the shooting they refused to take him home... and knowing about his thought and issues they did nothing to make it harder for him to access weapons.


Imo this is a long way from a mother having a criminal gang banging son.
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So if the mother of said gangbanger knows he has a gun and heard him say he was "light some mfs up" ( or whatever is the terms now). It's the basically the same if he does it.

Even if he a minor and she know he has a gun she should be held responsible for something if he uses the gun in a drive by or anything.
 
oldshadow said:
So if the mother of said gangbanger knows he has a gun and heard him say he was "light some mfs up" ( or whatever is the terms now). It's the basically the same if he does it.
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No, not even close.
If the mother knew he was a gang banger and he was talking about doing a drive by
to her, and the school contacted her and flagged it too.
And she still provided access to the weapon he used in a drive by you might have a point...

Again here we have a case were the parents knew their child had mental problems and "bad thought".
Their child asked them for help.
The school recommended that they got him help.
The school flagged that he had problems.
They refused to do anything and also IIRC bought him a gun as a present.
They did nothing to secure their own weapons at home KNOWING their child have these issues.
 
this trial is gonna end up being the best thing that ever happened to the black community.
 
lsa said:
No, not even close.
If the mother knew he was a gang banger and he was talking about doing a drive by
to her, and the school contacted her and flagged it too.
And she still provided access to the weapon he used in a drive by you might have a point...

Again here we have a case were the parents knew their child had mental problems and "bad thought".
Their child asked them for help.
The school recommended that they got him help.
The school flagged that he had problems.
They refused to do anything and also IIRC bought him a gun as a present.
They did nothing to secure their own weapons at home KNOWING their child have these issues.
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Thing is though, the school isn't a legal authority. A recommendation by them, isn't legally binding. They should've gone to CPS, if they thought the parent's were being detrimentally negligent to the well being of their child.

In terms of buying a gun for him, if the laws state that the kid can own one, that's on the state. The parents aren't breaking any laws by buying him a gun.

I think for them to have a case, the parents would've had to have broken some laws to give him access to the gun. I far as I can tell, they didn't. At worst, they ignored non-legally binding advice from the school.

If the parents did nothing illegal, then the responsibility for this should fall on the state, since their laws let it happen.
 
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