If Max beats Ilia, does GOAT FW rankings change?

[Pancake Sprawl]

i think Max is very close to beating Volk. Volk's claim to the GOAT is just because he beat Max. everyone else he's beaten Max has beaten too. some of them even more impressively than Volk did.

 

[RonDante]

Aldo is still the fw goat. Max says this as well

Okay and stipe says he’s the greatest heavyweight of all time but I’m certain you disagree with him on that right?

 

[GrantB13]

You call him the goat becuase of wins like that, so how accomplished are the people that beat aldo? A win can’t be exchanged willy nilly. Beating Aldo brings with it a win over a guy who beat all those people, thus adding to your legacy even more

No it doesn't because you can beat the guy who beat the guys but still lose to the other guys. You do not get credit for their wins just because you beat one person. It's an achievement to beat a great fighter but what if you lost to a fighter they beat?

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Okay so by the time he fought Florian he had beaten Swanson, brown, faber, gamburyan and hominick

Those are the fighters more worthy than Florian

Lol

At the time yeah, he can’t produce fighters from the future for him to fight.

 

[RonDante]

No it doesn't because you can beat the guy who beat the guys but still lose to the other guys. You do not get credit for their wins just because you beat one person. It's an achievement to beat a great fighter but what if you lost to a fighter they beat?

It’s MORE of an achievement to beat a great fighter than to beat a mediocre fighter


TJ Dillashaw beating joe soto means almost nothing compared to beating Renan barao

Volk beating aldo is better than aldo beating manvel gamburyan

And I didn’t say you get credit for their wins, I said the amount of wins they had, your win is elevated becuase of how good the person you beat has been

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

What would max beating a lightweight have to do with being greater among featherweights all time than aldo?

Because going up in weight is and winning against a capable fighter is a big accomplishment.

 

[RonDante]

At the time yeah, he can’t produce fighters from the future for him to fight.

Exactly, at the time. Fighters now are better

Explain to me why “we can’t judge based off level of competition”?

Why is it “oh well he beat the people in front of him” and not “he fought worse people than so and so”?

 

[RonDante]

Because going up in weight is and winning against a capable fighter is a big accomplishment.

An accomplishment that has nothing to do with your featherweight legacy, becuase it’s in a different division than featherweight

 

[El Fernas]

Sure, If you care too much on who is #2 and #3 between them.

 

[GrantB13]

“More defenses” lol, Volk would defend forever against the level of competition Aldo faced.

Tell me, could any one of the people that Aldo beat, beat Volk?

Fighters get older. Great fighters start losing at the end of their careers usually. It's not often that a better version of the previous generation title challengers face the new champ. Aldo beat KZ but Volkanovski also beat him, but it was 9 fucking years later. Almost a decade. It's no surprise that Volkanovski beat the brakes off a worn down Zombie.

 

[Substance Abuse]

I'm just glad we get one of these threads almost every month. Like clockwork, lol.

Anyway, Volk has nine ranked wins at 145. Aldo has twelve. Aldo had nine title defenses. Volk had six. Aldo lost his belt almost twelve years into his MMA career. Volk lost his almost twelve years into his. Aldo had a clear win over the guy who should have been lightweight champion at the time in Edgar at UFC 156 and should have beaten Bendo at UFC 150.

Outside of Holloway, Volkanovski never successfully defended his title against anyone who had more than a two fight win streak. Hominick, Edgar II, KZ, Lamas and Mendes x2 all had at least three fight win streaks, with KZ at three, Lamas at four, Mendes II at five, Mendes I at nine, Edgar II at five and Hominick at five.

All time divisional standings are created in the aggregate. Aldo still has claim to the title Featherweight GOAT in my opinion. I couldn't care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Exactly, at the time. Fighters now are better

Explain to me why “we can’t judge based off level of competition”?

Why is it “oh well he beat the people in front of him” and not “he fought worse people than so and so”?

No way to know if fighters are better now, but once again it doesn’t matter you can only fight your contemporaries, and compare how much farther they were than them and how long it took everyone to catch up, that’s how you gauge how great someone is. It’s a pretty simple concept to grasp but hey you keep screeching in your pillow, I’m sure that’ll change peoples minds.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

An accomplishment that has nothing to do with your featherweight legacy, becuase it’s in a different division than featherweight

Ok it still means something,, but also it’s more in regards to he kind of has to beat Gaethje I think to get a crack at top right away.

 

[GOATtalks]

More defenses , and I alreadyy said that I’m not reading the test of this garbage but the first seantence

Lol. I meant as a fighter.

Aldo was an explosive striker, with great TDD and he had cardio issues. Wasn’t really a finisher when facing high competition. Didn’t have a very high output. Max and Volk would always beat him in 5 round fights. They fight at a higher pace and go at that pace for 5 rounds. They’re practically unbeatable with Aldo’s style.

Conor is much bigger, more powerful and with better timing. He already seen what happened when they fought.

Topuria has more power and he’s more dangerous in the pocket. There’s a good chance he would’ve KO Aldo too.

And enough with that title defence bs. Yes, he has the numbers but he hasn’t got the quality. Just look at the odds of his title defences:

Faber -300
Gamburyan -600
Hominick -600
Florian -420
Mendes -260
Frankie -175
Zombie -900
Lamas -800
Mendes -210
Conor -115
Max -145

Even by the odds it’s obvious that he really only faced 4 great fighters during his title run ( Conor, Max, Frankie and Mendes) and he lost to 2 of them.

 

[GOATtalks]

Usman is 0-2 against Leon. Silva is 0-2 against Weidman. Shevchenko is 0-2 against Grasso. Matt Hughes is 0-2 against Hallman. BJ Penn is 0-2 against Edgar. Joanna is 0-2 against both Rose and Weili.

Those fights don't determine who is higher on the GOAT list.

Usman is 1-2 against Leon, lol. Get your facts straight

 

[RonDante]

No way to know if fighters are better now, but once again it doesn’t matter you can only fight your contemporaries, and compare how much farther they were than them and how long it took everyone to catch up, that’s how you gauge how great someone is. It’s a pretty simple concept to grasp but hey you keep screeching in your pillow, I’m sure that’ll change peoples minds.

There is an obvious way to know if the fighters are better now. One extremely obvious way to tell is if the fighters now are dispatching of the fighters then. Tale as old as time

 

[RonDante]

Ok it still means something,, but also it’s more in regards to he kind of has to beat Gaethje I think to get a crack at top right away.

True it means something in an all time legacy, like Aldo’s wins at bantamweight are all time, but they don’t affect his featherweight legacy

 

[metal7555]

There is an obvious way to know if the fighters are better now. One extremely obvious way to tell is if the fighters now are dispatching of the fighters then. Tale as old as time

Undeniable proof.

This is why I have Berbick > Ali on my GOAT boxing list.

Already think substance said what needed to be said though in a logical way.

I also think a lot of people HERE (sherdog weirdos) didn't actively even watch WEC or MMA before TUF, Brock, ZUFFA, Connor -- whatever "popular" growth in the sport happened, so the revisionist reviews on shit is completely skewed by recency bias.

 

[HavokHarmon]

I have Aldo just barely ahead of Volk but it’s close. Only way Max passes Volk would be if he did a lot more and if Volk did basically nothing else at 145.

3 head to head losses when they’re both in their primes is hard to overcome. Max would have to go on a tear and Volk would have to twiddle his thumbs or just lose a bunch and retire.

 

[Clark Rogers]

Title defenses separate them, too.

This place is so quick to crown new GOATs, it really makes the term worth fuckall.

Volk will always have the 3 head-to-head wins, but I guess if Max could win the title, steering together a longer set of defenses, it would bump him up my list.