Opinion MAID is Not Only Unethical, It's Murder

[NoSmilez]

Everything but admit they don't know how to fix her problems, and steer her towards those who do.

What do you mean? They exhausted all options and referred out. It's been going on for over a decade.

Who can fix her issues?

 

[deviake]

I haven't formed a strong opinion but this strikes me as very sketchy. I don't like it.

 

[Ruprecht]

Healthy or not, Assisted Suicide should be a basic human right for every adult.
The "You can't die, because I've decided you haven't suffered enough" perspective is disgusting.

That's the Swiss approach. Their assisted suicide rates (they legalised it in the '40s, the assistance doesn't have to come from a physician, nor do you have to be a citizen) have been escalating substantially. Mostly amongst the elderly with cancer apparently, but I can't find the complete demographic breakdown.
My understanding is that this case in the Netherlands will actually be euthanasia though.

 

[burningspear]

In roman times suicide was pretty common, no crime, no sin, the church changed all that, now people are expected to live in misery

 

[KOPPE]

No thanks for me on your vision of utopia and what is and isn't civil dude. You must try not to die is the purpose of living

"the purpose of living" lmao you fn simpleton. You think you have it all figured out?
Denying the right to die would essentially force people to live against their will. that is undefendable no matter how you look at it.
I know u authoritarian chuds are disconnected from reality but Human euthanasia is becoming more and more normal as each day passes.

 

[HereticBD]

By telling patients to fuck off is lacking compassion for their plight.

As opposed to...murdering them? Makes sense, LOL.

 

[NoSmilez]

As opposed to...murdering them? Makes sense, LOL.

Think about it. You can respect someone's suffering and right to die if they are paralyzed. You refuse to accept someone's pain regarding their mental illness. Are you saying their suffering isn't real or less?

It really isn't black and white.

 

[HereticBD]

In roman times suicide was pretty common, no crime, no sin, the church changed all that, now people are expected to live in misery

Suicide is still common, and everybody is free to kill themselves. Key word being "themselves".

 

[Ruprecht]

Suicide is still common, and everybody is free to kill themselves. Key word being "themselves".

That's the euthanasia vs assisted suicide distinction, although I'm not convinced it's substantial.
I guess I can see how rigging up some apparatus so even the severely disabled can initiate the injection themselves might be preferred by those that are doing it.

Spoiler: Deliverance

The Deliverance Machine was invented by Philip Nitschke. It consisted of software entitled Deliverance, that came on a special laptop that could be connected to an IV in a person's arm. The computer program asked a series of questions to confirm the person's intent to die that being:

1." Are you aware that if you go ahead to the last screen and press the “Yes” button, you will be given a lethal dose of medications and die?"

2. "Are you certain you understand that if you proceed and press the “Yes” button on the next screen that you will die?"

3." In 15 seconds you will be given a lethal injection… press “Yes” to proceed."[2]

After answering affirmatively to all of the questions, a lethal injection of barbiturates was triggered.[3]

In an interview Nitschke said that, even if it had been legal for a doctor to give a lethal injection, he preferred that the patient be in control of the administration of the drugs. Reducing the role of a physician also allowed a patient to be alone with their family during the euthanasia process.[4]

The machine was used, legally, while the Australian Northern Territory's Rights of the Terminally Ill Act 1995 was in effect; the act was eventually nullified by legislation of the Australian Parliament. The machine was put on display in the British Science Museum.[4]

 

[Cartiac]

Sigh what a world. I've been dealing with crippling depression most of my life. The things I've gone through, the things I've lost. The pain I've struggled through completely alone in the world, to try to find some way to keep going. Keep adapting. Yeah sometimes it really doesn't feel worth it. But I try really hard to hold on to hope somehow. Aynd now they're just going to tell mentally ill people NOT to try. just give up. You're right, you aren't worth it. What a horrible message to send. Why not try to fucking help her get better instead? Fuck you guys.

We hear you my friend. This is truly a very troubling extension of an already very troubling evolution regarding mental health. I wish I could remember the name of the Dr but her approach toward "diagnosis" of these mental health disorders is something that has stuck with me ever since. She talked about how in her practice she would never hand out a diagnosis to her clients that they did not come to themselves because when people are struggling with mental health and a Dr tells them they have some condition they will latch on to whatever it is they have been told is wrong with them and that halts the potential to help them. Instead she focused on trying to help the person express and understand themselves while providing small "nudges" to get them to slowly develop a more healthy thought process.

 

[HereticBD]

Think about it. You can respect someone's suffering and right to die if they are paralyzed. You refuse to accept someone's pain regarding their mental illness. Are you saying their suffering isn't real or less?

Paralyzed: Permanent disability. Completely dependent.

Mental illness: Treatable. There is no magic line where it becomes "untreatable". If the perfectly able bodied person wants to kill themselves, they don't require assistance.

What we do know about depressed people is that they're highly vulnerable to suggestions of suicide. You can tap dance around it all you want, but you know damn well that under any other circumstance, a group of people suggesting and facilitating the means of suicide to a mentally ill person would be looked at as manipulative scumbags who should rot in prison. It all of a sudden changes when "professionals" are the ones doing it. Appeal to authority. Doctor man says it's good, so it's good.

Also, I must repeat that your argument of "abandonment" is fucking ridiculous. You can't "abandon" anyone anymore than killing them.

 

[NoSmilez]

Paralyzed: Permanent disability. Completely dependent.

Mental illness: Treatable. There is no magic line where it becomes "untreatable". If the perfectly able bodied person wants to kill themselves, they don't require assistance.

What we do know about depressed people is that they're highly vulnerable to suggestions of suicide. You can tap dance around it all you want, but you know damn well that under any other circumstance, a group of people suggesting and facilitating the means of suicide to a mentally ill person would be looked at as manipulative scumbags who should rot in prison. It all of a sudden changes when "professionals" are the ones doing it. Appeal to authority. Doctor man says it's good, so it's good.

Also, I must repeat that your argument of "abandonment" is fucking ridiculous. You can't "abandon" anyone anymore than killing them.

You need to read this from her POV. She was never told by doctors her treatment is incurable. They exhausted all treatment options for her. They went for multiple opinions. She made the decision on her own. Again you aren't able to put yourself in her position. Her mental illness has put her in a place where she cannot live life. Again it's not always black or white. I think you keep trying to bring up the evil doctors but this really wasn't the case.

Zoraya (28) wil euthanasie: 'Leven heeft nooit een kans gekregen'

Als alles gaat zoals gepland, overlijdt Zoraya deze lente. In de Week van de Euthanasie vertelt ze haar verhaal.

www.linda.nl

 

[HereticBD]

You need to read this from her POV. She was never told by doctors her treatment is incurable. They exhausted all treatment options for her. They went for multiple opinions. She made the decision on her own. Again you aren't able to put yourself in her position. Her mental illness has put her in a place where she cannot live life. Again it's not always black or white. I think you keep trying to bring up the evil doctors but this really wasn't the case.

Zoraya (28) wil euthanasie: 'Leven heeft nooit een kans gekregen'

Als alles gaat zoals gepland, overlijdt Zoraya deze lente. In de Week van de Euthanasie vertelt ze haar verhaal.

www.linda.nl

I don't care if she asked for it. If the doctors(or head the Medical Suicide Squad) oblige her insane request, they are in the wrong. She's not the first mentally ill person in history to have suicidal tendencies. Those are the people you should be steering away from suicide, not towards. That's the whole goal. The option of having the doctors do it for you, should not even be on the table. She should be recommended continued treatment, and if she ends up killing herself, it's tragic, but at least you actually tried to help her, and not actually kill her yourself. As a medical professional, you should feel a great sense of failure if one of your patients kills themselves. You shouldn't, under any circumstances, be complicit with it.

 

[Poon Goon]

I don't care if she asked for it.

Then why do you continue to say that the doctors encouraged her?

 

[Ruprecht]

You need to read this from her POV. She was never told by doctors her treatment is incurable. They exhausted all treatment options for her. They went for multiple opinions. She made the decision on her own. Again you aren't able to put yourself in her position. Her mental illness has put her in a place where she cannot live life. Again it's not always black or white. I think you keep trying to bring up the evil doctors but this really wasn't the case.

Zoraya (28) wil euthanasie: 'Leven heeft nooit een kans gekregen'

Als alles gaat zoals gepland, overlijdt Zoraya deze lente. In de Week van de Euthanasie vertelt ze haar verhaal.

www.linda.nl

The use of ECT bothers me, given it's history and the fact there's still no real understanding of the mechanism of it's effects.
The psychiatric equivalent of, "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

 

[HereticBD]

Then why do you continue to say that the doctors encouraged her?

If the medical industry is signing off on it, rather saying "No, we will absolutely not murder you", that's encouragement. Simply having that option is encouragement.

 

[NoSmilez]

The use of ECT bothers me, given the history of it's use and the fact there's still no real understanding of the mechanism of it's effects.
The psychological equivalent of, "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

It is probably the last line treatment for that country. They pretty much are trying anything they can to try to fix this situation. The problem is that physicians don't really have that many effective weapons against treatment resistant depression. A lot of people have several issues along with their main issue. Mental illness has a huge spectrum and severity. There is a part of me that is saying she shouldn't be depressed because she is living in a nice home and has a boyfriend along with cats. The problem is that I am not her and I don't feel the misery that she is feeling.

The alternative is to lock her up against her will and heavily medicate her until she is 40 and there might be a chance the brain will somehow auto correct itself. Imagine telling someone battling cancer for a long time that they need to do aggressive chemo for another ten years for a chance to get better. Some people might consider choosing the alternative instead of suffering. Again it's not black and white issue but I can understand her exhaustion in her battle to live a normal life.

 

[Scerpi]

Think about it. You can respect someone's suffering and right to die if they are paralyzed. You refuse to accept someone's pain regarding their mental illness. Are you saying their suffering isn't real or less?

It really isn't black and white.

Telling her it’ll never get better is criminal…

Plenty of people have been saved who thought they couldn’t go on. And we’re extremely thankful.

‘All I wanted to do was live’: After years of debate, a suicide safety net for the Golden Gate Bridge is nearing completion. Survivors say it’ll give many a 2nd chance at life | CNN

On September 25, 2000, Kevin Hines climbed over the rail of the Golden Gate Bridge.

amp.cnn.com

“My hands left the rail and I had an instantaneous regret for my actions,” Hines told CNN.

During the 4-second fall, Hines said the feeling of depression left his mind, and was replaced by a survival urge he described as almost instinctual.

“And at that time, all I wanted to do was live.”

After he was rescued from the water, Hines needed three vertebrae replaced with a titanium metal plate and pins, ultimately undergoing four and half weeks of recovery. And in the years since, Hines has been traveling the world to share his rare testimony.

“I have met thousands of people who have survived mild, moderate to extreme suicide attempts who have all said they each had the same instant regret,” Hines said. “They recognized their thoughts didn’t have to become their actions.”



What Yall are suggesting is these suicidal people just need a push to help them jump off these bridges

It’s what they wanted… right?

Terminal ill is one thing… but examples like this young woman is a complete failure of the system

 

[NoSmilez]

Telling her it’ll never get better is criminal…

Plenty of people have been saved who thought they couldn’t go on. And we’re extremely thankful.

‘All I wanted to do was live’: After years of debate, a suicide safety net for the Golden Gate Bridge is nearing completion. Survivors say it’ll give many a 2nd chance at life | CNN

On September 25, 2000, Kevin Hines climbed over the rail of the Golden Gate Bridge.

amp.cnn.com

“My hands left the rail and I had an instantaneous regret for my actions,” Hines told CNN.

During the 4-second fall, Hines said the feeling of depression left his mind, and was replaced by a survival urge he described as almost instinctual.

“And at that time, all I wanted to do was live.”

After he was rescued from the water, Hines needed three vertebrae replaced with a titanium metal plate and pins, ultimately undergoing four and half weeks of recovery. And in the years since, Hines has been traveling the world to share his rare testimony.

“I have met thousands of people who have survived mild, moderate to extreme suicide attempts who have all said they each had the same instant regret,” Hines said. “They recognized their thoughts didn’t have to become their actions.”



What Yall are suggesting is these suicidal people just need a push to help them jump off these bridges

It’s what they wanted… right?

Terminal ill is one thing… but examples like this young woman is a complete failure of the system

They didn’t tell her that. It’s a bit of a clickbait. You can read her interview.

 

[Poon Goon]

If the medical industry is signing off on it, rather saying "No, we will absolutely not murder you", that's encouragement. Simply having that option is encouragement.

This just isn't true. I have a broken rod in my ankle from a previous surgery. It caused pain and I had the option to have it surgically removed. I didn't feel compelled to do strictly because the option was available. Same goes for a ton of other elective procedures.