International 16-Year-Old Girl In Coma After Alleged Assault Over Hijab Rules In Iran Metro

I answered this in a previous thread when you pointed this out. In the West lots of anti-Islam folks like yourself like to claim that Islam is inherently misogynist so naturally uneducated Westerners like Andrew Tate and Sneako think that if they convert to Islam they're going to have four wives in burqas. Not saying there isn't a problem with women's issues in Muslim countries but people like Tate are not a problem of the Muslim world, these are people who grew up entirely in and are products of the West. Hence the fact that he got famous being an online pimp out of Romania.

The inconvenient fact for people like you is that many converts to Islam in the West are women. Low estimates have it just under half with higher estimates as high as 4/5 converts depending on the country and time period being looked at. I guess all those women are misogynists or masochists or something.
I made that point in my initial statement. There’s extraordinary pressure on people to convert or stay in the religion or face being ostracized by family members. That’s why I always tell people when you marry someone you marry the entire family. You guys need to come up with better stuff, I already predicted you would make this comment and said why it is a silly statement
 
I made that point in my initial statement. There’s extraordinary pressure on people to convert stay in the religion or face being ostracized by family members. That’s why I always tell people when you marry someone you marry the entire family. You guys need to come up with better stuff, I already predicted you would make this comment and said why it is a silly statement
How is that pressure acting on non-Muslim women who convert? Their non-Muslim families are pressuring them to convert to Islam?
 
hardcore christians be liek "she should have thought about that ahead of time"

A story about muslims and you somehow manage to insert Christians into it.
 
How the fuck are they beating little girls into a coma when gas is $4.
 
Somehow I don't think its an accident that both this girl and Mahsa Amini are Kurdish girls from Kurdish towns who were viciously accosted upon coming to Tehran. And yet most reports will point out their ethnicity but don't seem interested in any connection here.

This gets to one of the sinister aspects of these laws. Women in general are not prone to serious anti-social behavior like violence or property crime and so they are far less likely to interact with police as suspects. Criminalizing something mundane that they do gives the police a pretext to mess with women for ulterior reasons like ethnic disdain. In the case of Mahsa do we even know that she wasn't wearing hijab properly? How is that even determined? Seems like enforcement allows for lots of discretion and when you allow officers extensive discretion that is where bigotry can creep in.

My guess is these rules are enforced less in the periphery where the ethnic minorities make up a regional majority but if any of these minorities move to Persian dominated areas like Tehran they face more scrutiny from the security forces.

What does this even mean? Islamic Republic bad therefore Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib should be ejected from the party? Should Democrats double down on War on Terror rhetoric and support surveillance of Muslims? Its not like there's an official alliance, the Democrats are more welcoming of religious and ethnic diversity and therefore Muslims feel they represent our interests better so should Democrats do a 180 on those issue and ostracize Muslims?

I think oppression of Kurdish people is an important part of the discussion and us here in America should be understanding of how fucked up it is when law enforcement uses petty pretenses to assault or detain people and inflict grievous if not mortal harm.

That being said, I don't understand the popular nonsense that "the left loves Muslims". A political party can easily respect the separation of church and state while respecting freedom of religion and human rights. US right wing politicians have always been favorable with wealthy leaders of the Muslim world while being happy to shit on the rights of working class and middle class Muslims in the US. The Democratic stance is simply that people shouldn't be targeted by law enforcement based on their religion and that law enforcement activity should be based on due process.

If US republicans weren't so busy fearmongering to their "base" they'd realize that many Islamic US citizens trend in the direction of being socially conservative. It's the same short sighted nonsense that happened with latino voters in the US. Reagan wanted his party to court predominantly Christian latino voters in the US, but a few decades later the party that aligns with their social conservatism keeps using them as a boogeyman to motivate racist voters.


If anything, anti Islamic rhetoric is driving booming populations of Islamic adults in Michigan and elsewhere towards the Democratic party while the evangelical Christian wing of the Republican party is trying to actively erode the separation between church and state.

Anti Islamic violence in India is a great example of what can happen when religion infiltrates government and no longer respects freedom of religion or fundamental human rights of those whose religion is not controlling the government. Modi and his Hindu nationalist party have sanctioned, covered for, and helped organize horrible violence against people (including the public rape and murder of girls and women).

So yeah. It's not that Islam is bad. It's that separation of church and state is a must have for civilized society and failing to keep them separate leads to terrible horrible things.
 
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How is that pressure acting on non-Muslim women who convert? Their non-Muslim families are pressuring them to convert to Islam?
I imagine some do it for the structure or traditional values, or they marry into a Muslim family. Hey not everyone makes good choices what can I say. The worst part is not having that choice. Being born in one of these backwards cultures and having everyone telling you what to wear, behave, etc. Why not just condemn this part of Islam? It’s extremely telling that every time something horrific happens you just go into full Islam apologist mode.
 
I imagine some do it for the structure or traditional values, or they marry into a Muslim family. Hey not everyone makes good choices what can I say.
Right, in other words things are far more complicated than you were implying when you tried to make Andrew Tate out as representative of converts to Islam
The worst part is not having that choice. Being born in one of these backwards cultures and having everyone telling you what to wear, behave, etc. Why not just condemn this part of Islam? It’s extremely telling that every time something horrific happens you just go into full Islam apologist mode.
You're the one who brought Andrew Tate up as if that's somehow related to the Islamic Republic of Iran while I was actually on topic in discussing the event in the OP. Obviously I don't support the morality police in Iran and I explained at length why these laws and their enforcement are even more sinister than they seem at first glance.
 
I think oppression of Kurdish people is an important part of the discussion and us here in America should be understanding of how fucked up it is when law enforcement uses petty pretenses to assault or detain people and inflict grievous if not mortal harm.

That being said, I don't understand the popular nonsense that "the left loves Muslims". A political party can easily respect the separation of church and state while respecting freedom of religion and human rights. US right wing politicians have always been favorable with wealthy leaders of the Muslim world while being happy to shit on the rights of working class and middle class Muslims in the US. The Democratic stance is simply that people shouldn't be targeted by law enforcement based on their religion and that law enforcement activity should be based on due process.

If US republicans weren't so busy fearmongering to their "base" they'd realize that many Islamic US citizens trend in the direction of being socially conservative. It's the same short sighted nonsense that happened with latino voters in the US. Reagan wanted his party to court predominantly Christian latino voters in the US, but a few decades later the party that aligns with their social conservatism keeps using them as a boogeyman to motivate racist voters.
Exactly but some progressives prefer the approach of France where the state and society at large is overtly hostile to people who are visibly religious or invoke religion in the public realm. Anything less is catering to the religious or something like that.
So yeah. It's not that Islam is bad. It's that separation of church and state is a must have for civilized society and failing to keep them separate leads to terrible horrible things.
I will go as far as to say that this doesn't matter as much as people think. The UK technically does not have separation of church and state while France does and yet Muslims face more overt hostility in France than in the UK. Unwritten and unspoken norms do a lot of heavy lifting here and in a corrupt, authoritarian, multiethnic society where the regime is deathly afraid of separatism you will generate some really nasty unwritten norms that lead to incidents like the one in the OP or with Mahsa Amini.
 
Exactly but some progressives prefer the approach of France where the state and society at large is overtly hostile to people who are visibly religious or invoke religion in the public realm. Anything less is catering to the religious or something like that.

I will go as far as to say that this doesn't matter as much as people think. The UK technically does not have separation of church and state while France does and yet Muslims face more overt hostility in France than in the UK. Unwritten and unspoken norms do a lot of heavy lifting here and in a corrupt, authoritarian, multiethnic society where the regime is deathly afraid of separatism you will generate some really nasty unwritten norms that lead to incidents like the one in the OP or with Mahsa Amini.

I feel like those talking points come from a certain type of neoliberalist who isn't actually progressive at all. The "white moderate" of MLK jr's letters. "Freedom of religion for all! But less so for you guys. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure of property! Unless you're black or Sikh or play basketball at the mosque community center."

That being said, showing your face at security checkpoints like airports or stadium entry is not religious persecution and if a woman wants to wait longer in a security line to be searched by a female staff member she should be allowed to so regardless of her reasoning.

I'm not saying separation of church and state is a cure all, but it's needed or things can get horrifically out of hand. Religious police forces lead to more suffering, not more godliness.

As for France, while there are nationalist anti immigration platforms popping up all over Europe, public attitude in France was likely significantly harmed by terrorist mass shooting events in 2015 and the Charlie Hebdo attack prior to that.
 
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I feel like those talking points come from a certain type of neoliberalist who isn't actually progressive at all. The "white moderate" of MLK jr's letters. "Freedom of religion for all! But less so for you guys. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure of property! Unless you're black or Sikh or play basketball at the mosque community center."
I see what you mean but I wouldn't say that. I think its a sincere belief that this is the best way to organize society.
That being said, showing your face at security checkpoints like airports or stadium entry is not religious persecution and if a woman wants to wait longer in a security line to be searched by a female staff member she should be allowed to so regardless of her reasoning.
There are edge cases like that were legitimate security concerns clash with religious beliefs. Another example is how Sikhs carry knives as part of their religion and sometimes this runs up against security protocols for obvious reasons.

But places like France go a lot further than that. Hijabs and modest swimwear are banned not for security reasons but because the French don't tolerate being visibly Muslim. Obviously Iran is far worse, the French police are pretty awful but there's no worse system of government than the kind of military-intelligence regime you see in Iran.
 
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I see what you mean but I wouldn't say that. I think its a sincere belief that this is the best way to organize society.

There are edge cases like that were legitimate security concerns clash with religious beliefs. Another example is how Sikhs carry knives as part of their religion and sometimes this runs up against security protocols for obvious reasons.

But places like France go a lot further than that. Hijabs and modest swimwear are banned not for security reasons but because the French don't tolerate being visibly Muslim. Obvious Iran is far worse, the French police are pretty awful but there's no worse system of government than the kind of military-intelligence regime you see in Iran.

I feel like most rational Sikhs are not making much fuss in the US about concealed carrying a blade when it's illegal, yes it's a part of their code but it's understood that the practice may be limited by local laws. If you're trying to concealed carry a blade into an airport you're lacking in critical thinking skills. Freedom of religion does not (or should not at the very least) exempt one from violations of criminal law.

Modest swimwear bans are just retarded. "We don't like a group policing what women can wear, so we're gonna police what women can wear."
 
Allah is a merciful God.
 
An Iranian teenager injured on Tehran Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died, state media say
An Iranian teenage girl injured weeks ago in a mysterious incident on Tehran’s Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died

ByJON GAMBRELL Associated Press
October 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — An Iranian teenage girl injured weeks ago in a mysterious incident on Tehran's Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died, state media reported Saturday.

The death of Armita Geravand comes after her being in a coma for weeks in Tehran and after the one-year anniversary of the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini which sparked nationwide protests at the time.

Geravand's Oct. 1 injury and now her death threaten to reignite that popular anger, particularly as women in Tehran and elsewhere still defy Iran's mandatory headscarf, or hijab, law as a sign of their discontent with Iran's theocracy.

“Armita’s voice has been forever silenced, preventing us from hearing her story,” wrote the New York-based Center for Human Rights in Iran. “Yet we do know that in a climate where Iranian authorities severely penalize women and girls for not adhering to the state’s forced-hijab law, Armita courageously appeared in public without one.”

It added: “As long as the Iranian government enforces its draconian mandatory hijab law, the lives of girls and women in Iran will hang in the balance, vulnerable to severe rights violations, including violence and even death.”

Iran’s state-run IRNA news agency reported Geravand's death, without noting the wider unrest surrounding the headscarf law. Geravand suffered her injury at the Meydan-E Shohada, or Martyrs’ Square, Metro station in southern Tehran.

“Unfortunately, the brain damage to the victim caused her to spend some time in a coma and she died a few minutes ago,” the IRNA report read. “According to the official theory of Armita Geravand’s doctors, after a sudden drop in blood pressure, she suffered a fall, a brain injury, followed by continuous convulsions, decreased cerebral oxygenation and a cerebral edema.”

What happened in the few seconds after Armita Geravand entered the train on Oct. 1 remains in question. While a friend told Iranian state television that she hit her head on the station’s platform, the soundless footage aired by the broadcaster from outside of the car is blocked by a bystander. Just seconds later, her limp body is carried off.

Iranian state TV’s report, however, did not include any footage from inside the train itself and offered no explanation on why it hadn’t been released. Most train cars on the Tehran Metro have multiple CCTV cameras, which are viewable by security personnel.

Geravand’s parents appeared in state media footage saying a blood pressure issue, a fall or perhaps both contributed to their daughter’s injury.


Activists abroad have alleged Geravand may have been pushed or attacked for not wearing the hijab. They also demanded an independent investigation by the United Nations' fact-finding mission on Iran, citing the theocracy’s use of pressure on victims’ families and state TV’s history of airing hundreds of coerced confessions.

The Associated Press has not been able to confirm the exact circumstances of what caused Geravand’s injuries.

The Hengaw Organization for Human Rights, which reports on abuses in Iran’s western Kurdish region and earlier published a photograph of Geravand in a coma, renewed its calls Saturday for an independent international investigation citing “the practice of the Islamic Republic in concealing the truth.”

“During the last 28 days, the Islamic Republic of Iran tried to distort the narrative of the government murder of this teenage girl,” the group alleged.

The Oslo-based group Iran Human Rights similarly called for an investigation.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah “Ali Khamenei is personally responsible for Armita Garavand’s death unless an independent international investigation proves otherwise," said Mahmood Amiry-Moghaddam, the group's director.

Geravand’s injury and subsequent death also comes as Iran has put its morality police — whom activists implicate in Amini’s death — back on the street, and as lawmakers push to enforce even stricter penalties for those flouting the required head covering. Internationally, Geravand’s injury sparked renewed criticism of Iran's treatment of women and of the mandatory hijab law.

Amini died in a hospital on Sept. 16, 2022, after she was detained by Iranian morality police on allegations of improperly wearing the hijab. Suspicions that she was beaten during her arrest led to mass protests that represented the largest challenge to Iran’s theocratic government since the revolution.

Since those large-scale protests subsided, many women in Tehran could be seen without the hijab in defiance of the law.

Meanwhile, imprisoned Iranian activist Narges Mohammadi won the Nobel Peace Prize earlier this month in recognition of her tireless campaigning for women’s rights and democracy, and against the death penalty. The Iranian government criticized her awarding of the prize as a political stunt, without acknowledging its own decadeslong campaign targeting Mohammadi for her work.


Iran remains squeezed by sanctions and faces ever-rising tensions with the West over its rapidly advancing nuclear program and its aid to regional militant groups, including a renewed focus on its relationship with Hamas following that group’s unprecedented attack on and war with Israel.

For observant Muslim women, the head covering is a sign of piety before God and modesty in front of men outside their families. In Iran, the hijab — and the all-encompassing black chador worn by some — has long been a political symbol as well, particularly after becoming mandatory in the years following the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Iran and neighboring Taliban-ruled Afghanistan are the only countries where the hijab remains mandatory for women.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...red-tehran-metro-wearing-head-scarf-104445855
 
They need a full scale war to preventing a revolution in their own country
 
Fucking straight white christians males need to stop oppressing women
 
An Iranian teenager injured on Tehran Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died, state media say
An Iranian teenage girl injured weeks ago in a mysterious incident on Tehran’s Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died

ByJON GAMBRELL Associated Press
October 28, 2023, 3:41 AM

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — An Iranian teenage girl injured weeks ago in a mysterious incident on Tehran's Metro while not wearing a headscarf has died, state media reported Saturday.

The death of Armita Geravand comes after her being in a coma for weeks in Tehran and after the one-year anniversary of the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini which sparked nationwide protests at the time.

Geravand's Oct. 1 injury and now her death threaten to reignite that popular anger, particularly as women in Tehran and elsewhere still defy Iran's mandatory headscarf, or hijab, law as a sign of their discontent with Iran's theocracy.

“Armita’s voice has been forever silenced, preventing us from hearing her story,” wrote the New York-based Center for Human Rights in Iran. “Yet we do know that in a climate where Iranian authorities severely penalize women and girls for not adhering to the state’s forced-hijab law, Armita courageously appeared in public without one.”

It added: “As long as the Iranian government enforces its draconian mandatory hijab law, the lives of girls and women in Iran will hang in the balance, vulnerable to severe rights violations, including violence and even death.”

Iran’s state-run IRNA news agency reported Geravand's death, without noting the wider unrest surrounding the headscarf law. Geravand suffered her injury at the Meydan-E Shohada, or Martyrs’ Square, Metro station in southern Tehran.

“Unfortunately, the brain damage to the victim caused her to spend some time in a coma and she died a few minutes ago,” the IRNA report read. “According to the official theory of Armita Geravand’s doctors, after a sudden drop in blood pressure, she suffered a fall, a brain injury, followed by continuous convulsions, decreased cerebral oxygenation and a cerebral edema.”

What happened in the few seconds after Armita Geravand entered the train on Oct. 1 remains in question. While a friend told Iranian state television that she hit her head on the station’s platform, the soundless footage aired by the broadcaster from outside of the car is blocked by a bystander. Just seconds later, her limp body is carried off.

Iranian state TV’s report, however, did not include any footage from inside the train itself and offered no explanation on why it hadn’t been released. Most train cars on the Tehran Metro have multiple CCTV cameras, which are viewable by security personnel.

Geravand’s parents appeared in state media footage saying a blood pressure issue, a fall or perhaps both contributed to their daughter’s injury.


Activists abroad have alleged Geravand may have been pushed or attacked for not wearing the hijab. They also demanded an independent investigation by the United Nations' fact-finding mission on Iran, citing the theocracy’s use of pressure on victims’ families and state TV’s history of airing hundreds of coerced confessions.

The Associated Press has not been able to confirm the exact circumstances of what caused Geravand’s injuries.

The Hengaw Organization for Human Rights, which reports on abuses in Iran’s western Kurdish region and earlier published a photograph of Geravand in a coma, renewed its calls Saturday for an independent international investigation citing “the practice of the Islamic Republic in concealing the truth.”

“During the last 28 days, the Islamic Republic of Iran tried to distort the narrative of the government murder of this teenage girl,” the group alleged.

The Oslo-based group Iran Human Rights similarly called for an investigation.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah “Ali Khamenei is personally responsible for Armita Garavand’s death unless an independent international investigation proves otherwise," said Mahmood Amiry-Moghaddam, the group's director.

Geravand’s injury and subsequent death also comes as Iran has put its morality police — whom activists implicate in Amini’s death — back on the street, and as lawmakers push to enforce even stricter penalties for those flouting the required head covering. Internationally, Geravand’s injury sparked renewed criticism of Iran's treatment of women and of the mandatory hijab law.

Amini died in a hospital on Sept. 16, 2022, after she was detained by Iranian morality police on allegations of improperly wearing the hijab. Suspicions that she was beaten during her arrest led to mass protests that represented the largest challenge to Iran’s theocratic government since the revolution.

Since those large-scale protests subsided, many women in Tehran could be seen without the hijab in defiance of the law.

Meanwhile, imprisoned Iranian activist Narges Mohammadi won the Nobel Peace Prize earlier this month in recognition of her tireless campaigning for women’s rights and democracy, and against the death penalty. The Iranian government criticized her awarding of the prize as a political stunt, without acknowledging its own decadeslong campaign targeting Mohammadi for her work.


Iran remains squeezed by sanctions and faces ever-rising tensions with the West over its rapidly advancing nuclear program and its aid to regional militant groups, including a renewed focus on its relationship with Hamas following that group’s unprecedented attack on and war with Israel.

For observant Muslim women, the head covering is a sign of piety before God and modesty in front of men outside their families. In Iran, the hijab — and the all-encompassing black chador worn by some — has long been a political symbol as well, particularly after becoming mandatory in the years following the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Iran and neighboring Taliban-ruled Afghanistan are the only countries where the hijab remains mandatory for women.

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...red-tehran-metro-wearing-head-scarf-104445855
How awful, RIP.

I hope that somehow this regime can fall without descending into a civil war or requiring an outside intervention but that seems highly unlikely.
 
I'm so glad I converted from Islam to Christianity. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Terrible.

And the fact we're hearing little about any Iranian "people on the street" protesting really tells you how fearful they are, and how brutally hard the govt came down on the protests with previous girl the morality police beat the shit out of.

This time...uh uh...no thanks. Tells you how ruthless these fuckers are... to their own people... incredible.

Ok, she forgot her hijab... you're going to beat her to death over it? Jesus Christ...
 
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