37 Palestinians and counting dead, 1600 injured bc of Israel

[ElKarlo]

I don't like Israel, and don't like helping them. BUT the protests are dumb, and are going to help noone. The people in them are probably being used by Iran or SA IMHO

 

[Hidden_Hand]

I don't like Israel, and don't like helping them. BUT the protests are dumb, and are going to help noone. The people in them are probably being used by Iran or SA IMHO

The sad thing is that the left wing news stations are so desperate to tarnish Trump and his party that they lick their lips at this, they probably all applaud when they see the children laying dead in the street because here we go yet again another news story condemning Trump and trying to turn more against him.

I'm glad those innocent people and children didn't die in vain.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

It's not a Democracy at all. The West Bank is Taxed but none of the inhabitants get to vote. Taxation without representation has been known to get folks dander up.

Obviously the U.S. was a terror state for resisting the british.

Of course Israel is a democracy. And of course they shouldn't let non-citizens vote, particularly when most of those non-citizens are politically committed to the dissolution of Israel as a state. Arabs who are Israeli citizens get to vote for the Knesset like other Israeli citizens. Folks in the West Bank get to vote for the president of the Palestinian Authority every four years. They last elected Mahmoud Abbas.

 

[The Merchant]

Of course Israel is a democracy. And of course they shouldn't let non-citizens vote, particularly when most of those non-citizens are politically committed to the dissolution of Israel as a state. Arabs who are Israeli citizens get to vote for the Knesset like other Israeli citizens. Folks in the West Bank get to vote for the president of the Palestinian Authority every four years. They last elected Mahmoud Abbas.

It isn't. They tax people and then don't let them vote in the elections that allow this taxation. That is taxation without representation and the problems with that are widely established and accepted.

West bank elections or Knesset elections are completely irrelevant to the point i'm making. You can't tax people and then not give them the vote, and call yourself a democracy. Those two actions are mutually exclusive.

"a phrase, generally attributed to James Otis about 1761, that reflected the resentment of American colonists at being taxed by a British Parliament to which they elected no representatives and became an anti-British slogan before the American Revolution; in full, “Taxation without representation is tyranny.”."

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

It isn't. They tax people and then don't let them vote in the elections that allow this taxation. That is taxation without representation and the problems with that are widely established and accepted.

West bank elections or Knesset elections are completely irrelevant to the point i'm making. You can't tax people and then not give them the vote, and call yourself a democracy. Those two actions are mutually exclusive.

"a phrase, generally attributed to James Otis about 1761, that reflected the resentment of American colonists at being taxed by a British Parliament to which they elected no representatives and became an anti-British slogan before the American Revolution; in full, “Taxation without representation is tyranny.”."

You are being stupid if you think Israel is not a democracy. It is an indisputable fact that the government of Israel is democratic. Knesset and West Bank elections are entirely relevant to the question of whether Israel is a democracy. Palestinians who are Israeli citizens are represented by the Knesset and Palestinians who aren't Israeli citizens are represented by the Palestinian Authority.

Any Palestinian who is angry that they never seem to get a chance to vote ought to be angry with Mahmoud Abbas.

 

[The Merchant]

You are being stupid if you think Israel is not a democracy. It is an indisputable fact that the government of Israel is democratic. Knesset and West Bank elections are entirely relevant to the question of whether Israel is a democracy. Palestinians who are Israeli citizens are represented by the Knesset and Palestinians who aren't Israeli citizens are represented by the Palestinian Authority.

Any Palestinian who is angry that they never seem to get a chance to vote ought to be angry with Mahmoud Abbas.

You keep repeating the same rhetoric. You cannot be a democracy and tax people and then not let them vote. Stupid means slow to learn, despite being told this 3 times you haven't learned. Now who is stupid?

Let's keep it simple for you.

democracy
dɪˈmɒkrəsi/
noun
noun: democracy
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

The West Bank is taxed and yet cannot vote.

Just repeating "it's a Democracy" doesn't mean shit.

I cannot explain this any simpler for you. You either can understand it or keep repeating slogans.

 

[ElKarlo]

The sad thing is that the left wing news stations are so desperate to tarnish Trump and his party that they lick their lips at this, they probably all applaud when they see the children laying dead in the street because here we go yet again another news story condemning Trump and trying to turn more against him.

I'm glad those innocent people and children didn't die in vain.

Yeah my feed is full of this crap. Did moving the embassy really make it so that all these people had to throw fire bombs? Israel is an awful country, but it's surrounded by some of the worst people on earth. Wait no, the worst. So I understand why they need to shoot at these fools.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

USA is responsible for this because of FMF to Israel. We really ought to stop or recoup that money. USA never should have gotten involved, so let happen what will, once we stop our support.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

You keep repeating the same rhetoric. You cannot be a democracy and tax people and then not let them vote. Stupid means slow to learn, despite being told this 3 times you haven't learned. Now who is stupid?

Let's keep it simple for you.

democracy
dɪˈmɒkrəsi/
noun
noun: democracy
a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

The West Bank is taxed and yet cannot vote.

Just repeating "it's a Democracy" doesn't mean shit.

I cannot explain this any simpler for you. You either can understand it or keep repeating slogans.

It's not rhetoric. It's a fact.

The one repeating slogans is you. No taxation without representation is a well known slogan. You aren't applying it very well either.

I understand your criticism that you think Israel should not tax Palestinian territories, but that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Israel is a democracy. The definition you listed proves it: Israel is run by a system of government where representatives are elected by eligible members of the state.

 

[KnightTemplar]

If only the Jews and the Muslims would settle their differences in a Christian manner

 

[MadSquabbles500]

You implied the pali-egypt border was open b/c no israeli guarded it. You lie, like a good little zionist. Is ther a course at the local Synogogoe or something?

And yes its is israeli's 'fault' as egypt enforces israeli's directions.

and because of USA's FMF to Egypt on behalf of Israel

 

[The Merchant]

It's not rhetoric. It's a fact.

The one repeating slogans is you. No taxation without representation is a well known slogan. You aren't applying it very well either.

I understand your criticism that you think Israel should not tax Palestinian territories, but that is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Israel is a democracy. The definition you listed proves it: Israel is run by a system of government where representatives are elected by eligible members of the state.

I have no problems with Israel taxing Palestinian Territories So no idea why you're saying i have criticism. It was negotiated that this should be the case by both sides in the Oslo accords. It's the withholding of the money in contempt of the agreed treaty I have a problem with. Not Taxation.

Yet they steal tax revenue of people and don't let them vote. This distinction appears lost on you just cause there are elections etc. You can't see past the sophistry.

EDIT: Also if it is such fact why is it debated so much? I don't see the value of gravity being debated or Pi or e. Those are facts.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Is-Israel-a-true-democracy-352445

 

[Hoof Hearted]

Lol, imagine if the it was the USA gunning down people crossing the southern border. Or god forgive, if the italian navy was sinking migrant ships.

Imagine if loads of Native Americans started living on Son of Jamin's land and in the surrounding area and told him he and his family have no right to live there. I'm sure he wouldn't have a problem.

 

[Cid]

There you have it, further confirmation of the fact that you can't answer those questions because they show how dumb you are.

You were reasoning fallaciously and I asked you those questions hoping that you would be decent and humble enough to realise your reasoning was flawed. But now I can see that you are too dumb to even realise that you reason like a retard.

Why don't you actually prove my reasoning was flawed rather than using the socratic method which is the equivalent of a 5 year old spamming the question why while thinking they're fucking hilarious.

I already answered half your questions and the ones I didn't answer were self explanatory. I'll even dumb it down to a level you can understand. Maybe use your shitty socratic method on you so your dumb ass can actually understand you haven't even made a single argument.

Here is your initial reply with two questions edited in later because you seem like someone too dumb to actually take in more than one talking point at a time.

This topic is about Palestine not about all the countries that have suffered like Palestine. Why mention other countries that have suffered like Palestine?

You can't reply because you are too dumb and full of hate.

The person I was quoting asked why no one cares:

This thread just shows how fucked the west is lol

Not one person cares about Palestine

Not one person cares abt anyone in the middle east outside of Israel

I corrected this statement about no one caring by not only stating that people do care but also gave examples thirty six conflicts more violent than the subject at hand of which only ONE gets the same amount of coverage and attention.

36!

This is what adults do when arguing. They make a statement and then back it up with evidence. All those other conflicts were evidence to back up my statement.

Do you understand this common technique?

Does this absolve Israel of its crimes? Does it make the suffering of the Palestinians diminish?

No, I never intended to absolve Isreal of its crimes or make the suffering of palestinians diminish.

What it did was put it into a context of attention compared to actual harm. The person asked why no one cared and I provided dozens examples of wars/conflicts that are worse most of which you've probably never even heard of to demonstrate that people do care. In fact there are so many that it easily demonstrates that the caring is disproportionate compared to other conflicts.

I then further backed that up by listing how many threads on this minor conflict are on the first page.

To further illustrate my point I just checked the WR first page and there's 3 Israel threads.

Tell me no one gives a shit again...

Now I'll ask you some questions in the hope that you can actually be humble enough to realize that not only your reasoning was flawed but you presented 0 arguments to counter my initial statement.

How many of the 36 conflicts I listed had you heard of?
How many of these more violent conflicts get as much media attention?
How many of these more violent conflicts get as many WR threads made about them?

How has anything you've said diminished or detracted from my original statement?

At what point are you going to present any evidence to back up your points?

 

[FIMN]

The sad thing is that the left wing news stations are so desperate to tarnish Trump and his party that they lick their lips at this, they probably all applaud when they see the children laying dead in the street because here we go yet again another news story condemning Trump and trying to turn more against him.

I'm glad those innocent people and children didn't die in vain.

I think liberals as a group would like to see at least the appearance of skilled diplomacy from the leadership of the US. It seems like a poorly thought out strategy to support the foreign policy of the trump admin which popular appeal relies on non interventionism, murica first ideals.

 

[Cid]

Cumulative Fatalities: 25,000

So it takes about 60 years for this conflict to reach a total that American gun violence claims each year.

Bravo, good point. I totally concede. We need to stop this immediately.

 

[Cid]

Total sophistry, Death isn't the metric, suffering and self determination are. Every Palestinian in the West Bank is taxed but not allowed to vote.

If you think the issue is about death toll you have a lot of reading to catch up on.

Yeah because taxes and not being able to vote are so much worse than thousands and tens of thousands of deaths.

They're also issues that are exclusive to the Gaza strip. No other citizen in the world pays taxes without the option of voting.

 

[TheLastSpartan]

Hold on, is that true? Israel taxes the residents of Gaza despite them not being citizens? Isn't that blatantly wrong/illegal?

 

[The Merchant]

Hold on, is that true? Israel taxes the residents of Gaza despite them not being citizens? Isn't that blatantly wrong/illegal?

The large proportion of Israeli-collected taxes in the PA's budget makes the PA vulnerable to unilateral suspension of clearance revenue transfers by Israel. As early as 1997, Israel began to abuse the clearance system for political reasons and to unilaterally settle bills unpaid by Palestinians. Israel has frequently suspended hundreds of millions of dollars for accumulated periods of some 4 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_State_of_Palestine

 

[Zanmato]

How does moving an embassy provoke someone into charging a security fence exactly?

It is aknowledgment of Isreali ownership of very hotly disputed land. It was an incendiary, unnecessary action with no real benefit to anyone. No one in the world except the US government and the Isreali government recommended it because it would invite the reaction it got. It is the apex of 70 years worth of "fuck you"s to an already bitter and desperate group of people. It was clearly provocative.