Law 5 Oklahoma officers charged in shooting of armed robbery suspect

[Confucamus]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...-in-shooting-death-of-15-year-old/ar-BB1etcMY



Five Oklahoma police officers are being charged with first degree manslaughter after shooting a 15 year old male that had just robbed a convenience store. The owner locked the kid in the store as police arrived. Police addressed him over the loud speaker to show his hands. He climbed out of the drive through window, removed a gun from his waist, dropped the gun, then reached into his back pocket. He was then shot 13 times. Police rendered aid, but he died at the scene. An accomplice was charged with murder for taking part in the robbery but fled before police arrived.

Man, I really don’t know how I feel about this one. He committed armed robbery, had a gun when he climbed out of the window, but dropped the gun. He was shot because he reached into his back pocket to retrieve a cell phone. He appeared to be trying to surrender, lifting his shirt to show he had nothing in his waist, and he did have his hands up prior to reaching into his pocket.

Honestly, I can see both sides to this one, hence the thread. He was armed, but he looks scared and obviously made a fatal mistake. I don’t agree with the murder charge for the accomplice. He should be charged with first degree robbery, but being charged for murder because the police shot the other suspect is fucked up. I can understand why the officers perceived a threat at the moment he reached for the phone, but why would he go for a second gun after dropping the first one? If he was going to shoot at the officers, he would have just used that one. In my opinion, this was a bad shoot, however, does this warrant charges? I don’t know. All six officers on scene fired at the same time-with one of them firing a less lethal round-he was not charged.

According to Graham v Connor, the litmus test is whether a reasonable officer, given only the information officers had at the time of the shooting, have made the same decision. Officers knew he robbed the place, knew he had one gun, and didn’t know what he was reaching for. Graham also weighs the seriousness of the crime(very serious), the presence of a weapon, but Graham also looks at whether the suspect is actively resisting arrest or fleeing-neither of which occurred. Police stated he did not follow commands to keep his hands up.

I just don’t know about whether charges are warranted. I keep going back and forth on this one. The family definitely has a lawsuit. I don’t think the officers will be convicted in this case because of his actions prior to being shot-the armed robbery, but I don’t have definitive feelings either way. If he had reached into his pocket at a faster pace, I wouldn’t have an issue with the shooting. I do think that these would be the correct charges in this instance, and would have been the correct charges in the Floyd case imo, but they opted for overcharging due to immense pressure due to emotional feelings and fear of further riots, which is never a valid reason to file charges.

No sympathy for armed robbers. Fuck your life if you take a weapon and go rob some place for items or money you didn't earn. The idea that the cops here were trigger happy is stupid. If they were trigger happy, why didn't they blow him away when he pulled the gun out?
Most importantly, when you're in this situation, LISTEN to the cops' directions. It appeared that he pulled his gun out and kept reaching for his pocket without being given instructions to do so. There's a reason cops tell you to do things slowly. I'm sure this kid was scared, but he put himself in that situation.

Wait..... Why is the guy being charged for murder because the cops shot and killed his accomplice? That's stretching Felony murder if you ask me.

If you've already fled the scene and cops shoot someone surrendering are you "in the act"?

Leaving the scene a little early doesn't mean you're absolved from planning and executing the armed robbery. The accomplice was part of this from the beginning, and is directly responsible for the events leading to this death. I hope he gets life, to be honest.

 

[brackis1]

No sympathy for armed robbers. Fuck your life if you take a weapon and go rob some place for items or money you didn't earn. The idea that the cops here were trigger happy is stupid. If they were trigger happy, why didn't they blow him away when he pulled the gun out?
Most importantly, when you're in this situation, LISTEN to the cops' directions. It appeared that he pulled his gun out and kept reaching for his pocket without being given instructions to do so. There's a reason cops tell you to do things slowly. I'm sure this kid was scared, but he put himself in that situation.





Leaving the scene a little early doesn't mean you're absolved from planning and executing the armed robbery. The accomplice was part of this from the beginning, and is directly responsible for the events leading to this death. I hope he gets life, to be honest.

lol you're just making up your own laws as you go I see.

 

[Clifford_Harris]

No sympathy for armed robbers. Fuck your life if you take a weapon and go rob some place for items or money you didn't earn. The idea that the cops here were trigger happy is stupid. If they were trigger happy, why didn't they blow him away when he pulled the gun out?
Most importantly, when you're in this situation, LISTEN to the cops' directions. It appeared that he pulled his gun out and kept reaching for his pocket without being given instructions to do so. There's a reason cops tell you to do things slowly. I'm sure this kid was scared, but he put himself in that situation.





Leaving the scene a little early doesn't mean you're absolved from planning and executing the armed robbery. The accomplice was part of this from the beginning, and is directly responsible for the events leading to this death. I hope he gets life, to be honest.

So then he's directly responsible for his accomplice disarming himself before cops shot him?

 

[rearnakedchoke]

Maybe. There are some depraved cops to be sure, but I don’t see any who would want to shoot someone under this climate of witch hunts. Shooting someone almost guarantees protests and ruining someone’s life.

Maybe. But honestly it doesn’t look like a) the cops have changed with the current climate or b) they don’t care. It’s a tough job, but there were other opportunities in that video where they could have shot the guy. The point at which they shoot him is just poor judgement.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Honestly, I can see both sides to this one, hence the thread.

That is incredibly even-handed of you. Getting killed in a hail of bullets while unarmed and attempting to surrender to police is often a lot more complicated than it seems.

 

[ultramanhyata]

If I remove one gun from my waistband while being ordered to show hands, with guns trained on me, and proceed to reach into the back of my waistband, I would expect to get lit up.

Yeah. If the cops let me go into my waistband once to pull out an object and lay it on the ground I would have to assume they would open fire on me if I went into my waistband a second time.

There was an old saying in my neighborhood.

Don't go into your waistband twice
Or you'll be in the morgue on ice.

 

[BIKES!]

If someone dies while you are in the act of committing a felony you can be charged.

This makes a lot sense. Deterrents save lives. What doesn’t save lives is committing armed robbery and not following police commands to a T when you are armed

 

[BIKES!]

Without seeing the footage, from what's described the cops should 100% be charged.

Again thats just from the narrative.

And that’s what the media does. I’m surprised the headline wasn’t cops hunt man grabbing cellphone because of the...

 

[nhbbear]

Maybe. But honestly it doesn’t look like a) the cops have changed with the current climate or b) they don’t care. It’s a tough job, but there were other opportunities in that video where they could have shot the guy. The point at which they shoot him is just poor judgement.

I agree with many of your points, but as far as police shootings go, most of them are unquestionably good shoots. This was not. It wasn’t terrible like the Columbus shooting of Andre hill, but it was still not a good shoot

 

[nhbbear]

That is incredibly even-handed of you. Getting killed in a hail of bullets while unarmed and attempting to surrender to police is often a lot more complicated than it seems.

Not sure if sarcastic. If so, read my other posts. I have said many times this was a bad shoot. I can just see both sides to charging and not charging the officers

 

[BIKES!]

Imagine living in a world where armed felons caught in the act provoke more support than the police who risk their lives apprehending them...

He already dropped the gun when he reached again it was obviously for a cell phone... stupid cops...

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Reported

Piggies gonna squeal.

 

[MTT]

Yeah. If the cops let me go into my waistband once to pull out an object and lay it on the ground I would have to assume they would open fire on me if I went into my waistband a second time.

There was an old saying in my neighborhood.

Don't go into your waistband twice
Or you'll be in the morgue on ice.

You didn't watch the video? The police didn't "let him" go into his waistband the first time. All commands being ordered are "Show us your hands" and "Face down on the ground" before he comes out of the store window. In fact, when he grabs the gun, one officer says "Don't do that". When you have multiple officers with guns drawn on you yelling on a loudspeaker to show your hands, going into your waistband multiple times is not recommended. In your world, because you disobeyed their commands once and didn't die, they have given you carte blanche to continue doing so?

 

[ultramanhyata]

You didn't watch the video? The police didn't "let him" go into his waistband the first time. All commands being ordered are "Show us your hands" and "Face down on the ground" before he comes out of the store window. In fact, when he grabs the gun, one officer says "Don't do that". When you have multiple officers with guns drawn on you yelling on a loudspeaker to show your hands, going into your waistband multiple times is not recommended. In your world, because you disobeyed their commands once and didn't die, they have given you carte blanche to continue doing so?

I'm sure a person's head is never as clear as when they are being instructed by police through a bullhorn with guns drawn on them. I'm sure every failure to comply is an intentional act of rebellion and aggression and as such deserves to be met with deadly force. You should write a letter to the DA and tell him any charges filed against these fine, upstanding officers are a huge mistake.

 

[Wingslaught]

Not sure if sarcastic. If so, read my other posts. I have said many times this was a bad shoot. I can just see both sides to charging and not charging the officers

Personally, I think they were trying to do their jobs in confronting an armed robber. Do they really deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail because things went South? Seems overly harsh, imo. Not only that but soon no one is going to want to be a police officer anymore.

 

[MTT]

I'm sure a person's head is never as clear as when they are being instructed by police through a bullhorn with guns drawn on them. I'm sure every failure to comply is an intentional act of rebellion and aggression and as such deserves to be met with deadly force. You should write a letter to the DA and tell him any charges filed against these fine, upstanding officers are a huge mistake.

Often, the failure to comply with lawful commands is an intentional act of rebellion, with the goal of further violence. I do agree with your assessment of a suspect's emotional state being potentially rattled. A common theme is often multiple, conflicting commands being issued to a suspect which injects more confusion. I don't think it's a good outcome, only that it was justified, in my opinion. Officer training includes videos of suspects defying commands, reaching in their waistband or pocket, pulling a weapon out and firing, then instill deadly force as one remedy to that action and this is an outcome. I don't feel confident in the cases against those officers.

 

[Mcountry]

Well thank God that the victim was white so we can look at this situation much more.objectively

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That is incredibly even-handed of you. Getting killed in a hail of bullets while unarmed and attempting to surrender to police is often a lot more complicated than it seems.

I'm sure you've tons of experience confronting armed criminals. You should for sure lecture the guy who everyone knows was paid to do so or years.

 

[Seano]

That is incredibly even-handed of you. Getting killed in a hail of bullets while unarmed and attempting to surrender to police is often a lot more complicated than it seems.

Getting killed by cops in a hail of bullets is actually pretty easy when they know you were armed and are reaching in your back pocket despite being told at gun point not to.
Whats the old saying? Play stupid games, get killed in a hail of gunfire?

 

[BKMMAFAN]

Im way more surprised they didn't open fire when he grabbed the gun in the first place. I don't see how the DA substantiates charging the cops here.