Law 5 Oklahoma officers charged in shooting of armed robbery suspect

[nhbbear]

Personally, I think they were trying to do their jobs in confronting an armed robber. Do they really deserve to spend the rest of their lives in jail because things went South? Seems overly harsh, imo. Not only that but soon no one is going to want to be a police officer anymore.

Even before all this shit, recruiting was way down with most departments experiencing a shortage. When I took the test in 2001, there were over three hundred people taking the test. I finished third but the two people ahead of me had taken the test multiple times before-they just couldn’t pass the physical, which made me #1. The department didn’t have any openings so it took me a year to get hired. Now, the department is down 16 people and they are lucky if they get 40 taking the test with only 9 or 10 passing. Most don’t pass the background check and they end up with maybe 4 eligible candidates. And forget about females or diversity. The females rarely pass the physical test and minorities can’t seem to pass the background check or polygraph.
The local naacp strongly urged that certain crimes should no longer be
allowed to disqualify black candid ates. When it was pointed out that if they eased restrictions, they would have to do that for all candidates and they balked and said that would let even more white cops on the force.

As I said in another thread, we need the best cops possible. To do that, you have to get the best recruits and to do that, you have to make the job more attractive. Better pay for college grads and better pay in general to attract better candidates so departments can be more selective. If the job pays enough (so they don’t have to moonlight 20+ hours per week) and it rewards college degrees instead of feeling like it is being wasted on a job that does not require it. Increase funding for departments that are accredited so they can pay more, get better needed equipment (body cams and tasers/other less lethal), and get better training.

 

[Sara]

As already stated, accomplices can be charged if their actions lead to a death, but in this case, I don’t agree. There were demonstrations over this and I don’t disagree

How old was the accomplice?

 

[nhbbear]

I'm sure a person's head is never as clear as when they are being instructed by police through a bullhorn with guns drawn on them. I'm sure every failure to comply is an intentional act of rebellion and aggression and as such deserves to be met with deadly force. You should write a letter to the DA and tell him any charges filed against these fine, upstanding officers are a huge mistake.

I agree it is stressful as shit to be ordered by police to do anything let alone with guns pointed at you. I think he was trying to surrender and made a fatal error. He should have left the gun in the store and kept his hands visible. Everyone knows that, but stress is a motherfucker-and that goes for both sides.

But your “fine, upstanding officers” sarcastic comment makes assumptions that we do not know. Personally, I am guessing that the officer with the less lethal round fired and it triggered others to fire because they believed that officer saw a threat the others did not. But don’t assume these officers were dirty or anything because they shot a kid that just robbed a convenient store with a gun.

 

[nhbbear]

How old was the accomplice?

I think 17 if I recall correctly

 

[Natural Order]

What a stupid, stupid human being.

Sad, but a noticeable improvement to the gene pool.

 

[Sara]

I think 17 if I recall correctly

Ok I was wondering if he was the fall guy for someone much older

 

[nhbbear]

Well thank God that the victim was white so we can look at this situation much more.objectively

Unfortunately, that will be looked at. It is a questionable shoot to be sure, I think a bad shoot, but I don’t know that it is criminal and I lean towards it not being a crime. When I said unfortunately, I meant that those that want to see that a white kid killed by cops lead to charges while black people getting killed by cops does not, will be the narrative. They will compare this to dijoun kizzee, the black guy in LA that dropped a stolen gun and then tried to pick it up after punching two cops. Or the guy in Columbus that waived a gun at a cop and then was shot “while carrying a sandwich” not a gun-a gun was found on him. It was legal, but how did the cops know he had one when the family claimed it was in a holster if he did not display it? The people that want to see that this means a white life is more important will see just that. If he had not been shot, they would have seen this as them not shooting him BECAUSE he was white. People will see whatever conforms to their expectations.

Hell, I began to make the thread after reading the story with the expectation that it was a valid shoot. Then I found the video and changed my mind. But I do not believe race played a factor here. Like most other situations, cops react to the crimes and the threat of violence.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

How old is that law? 'Murican legal system seems very convoluted from a layman looking in.

Thats the thing, man. No one on Sherdog is a layman. We all passed the Bar and are currently practicing law as we speak.

 

[nhbbear]

Disagree. Using Graham, the cops had a reasonable belief that the bad guy could still be armed, compounded by the fact that he did not prone himself out AND he reached to a place where weapons are commonly found on criminals. You have no obligation to allow an armed criminal to draw and shoot you before you can take action to prevent it. These cops will all be acquitted if charged, and it's a waste of time to do so since it will only fan the flames. Furthermore, this won't have media staying power because of the race of the suspect.

I agree with the last part. But I also look at the guy showing his waistband and dropping one gun. Why would he go for a second gun to shoot them if he had already gave up one? I don’t think this was a good shoot, but I don’t believe this is criminal either. The kid’s actions led to his death, but the cops are not completely without blame as well.

 

[Mcountry]

Unfortunately, that will be looked at. It is a questionable shoot to be sure, I think a bad shoot, but I don’t know that it is criminal and I lean towards it not being a crime. When I said unfortunately, I meant that those that want to see that a white kid killed by cops lead to charges while black people getting killed by cops does not, will be the narrative. They will compare this to dijoun kizzee, the black guy in LA that dropped a stolen gun and then tried to pick it up after punching two cops. Or the guy in Columbus that waived a gun at a cop and then was shot “while carrying a sandwich” not a gun-a gun was found on him. It was legal, but how did the cops know he had one when the family claimed it was in a holster if he did not display it? The people that want to see that this means a white life is more important will see just that. If he had not been shot, they would have seen this as them not shooting him BECAUSE he was white. People will see whatever conforms to their expectations.

Hell, I began to make the thread after reading the story with the expectation that it was a valid shoot. Then I found the video and changed my mind. But I do not believe race played a factor here. Like most other situations, cops react to the crimes and the threat of violence.

Policing is fucking hard. That kid put himself in a stupid situation and handled himself poorly.

I don't fault the police.

 

[Jkillah]

IMO, anything that happens to an armed robber is on them. Even if police misjudge the situation, it's still the robber's fault for creating the situation. Police can't expect to be perfect. Taxpayers shouldn't pay giant settlements to the families of armed robbers.

 

[nhbbear]

Policing is fucking hard. That kid put himself in a stupid situation and handled himself poorly.

I don't fault the police.

oh I know it is hard. Believe me. I also know that the kid reached slowly after discarding his gun and was terrified. Also, believe me that the cops getting charged won’t be seen as “see, things are changing” but they will see it as “see, when a white kid gets shot, they charge the cops”

 

[Kid Quick]

If you don't commit armed robbery, you don't have to worry about this happening...

 

[nhbbear]

I just checked, the officer with the non lethal fired first which probably triggered the other officers to shoot.

 

[cleetus]

I just checked, the officer with the non lethal fired first which probably triggered the other officers to shoot.

I didn’t hear her say impact, impact, impact. That’s a major training failure.

 

[Mcountry]

oh I know it is hard. Believe me. I also know that the kid reached slowly after discarding his gun and was terrified. Also, believe me that the cops getting charged won’t be seen as “see, things are changing” but they will see it as “see, when a white kid gets shot, they charge the cops”

When you are in a situation like that with guns drawn. First off, YOU put yourself in that situation.
Secondly...it is a life/death situation and very important that you listen to the police commands. Do what they tell you to do, exactly.
Third If we charge the police for protecting themselves under threat of deadly force, who is going to want to do this job in the future?
Fourth. Sadly, very few assholes on these boards look at this situation objectively and first they need to identify the race to remove any idea of made up motivations by the police officers. I treat these situations exactly the same regardless of the identity or class of the suspect. A trait very libtards can also claim to have.

This kid put himself in a life/death situation and fucked up hard. The police have a duty to protect themselves and the public.

 

[jx820]

If someone dies while you are in the act of committing a felony you can be charged.

Genuine questino, when does the act of committing begin and end? He wasn't actively robbing the place when he was shot. He was outside of the place that was robbed surrendering to police custody. Is it legally defined by actions, proximity, or time?

 

[Oceanmachine]

The only tool they know how to use is to shoot it seems

 

[nhbbear]

I didn’t hear her say impact, impact, impact. That’s a major training failure.

I thought the same thing.

 

[boxingskills]

I agree with the last part. But I also look at the guy showing his waistband and dropping one gun. Why would he go for a second gun to shoot them if he had already gave up one?

To make it look like he is complying then shoot them with the element of surprise.