A Classical Liberal & A Progressive Marxist Debate

[Der Eisbär]

LOLOL

 

[Jack V Savage]

And the apologists show up on cue. Everyone is Alt-Right but nobody is a Marxist...got it

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Heh. That would be good. Right off the bat, I think anyone who uses "cultural Marxism" is already showing that they're clueless.

Are you denying the existence of cultural marxism or just mocking people who only know about that form of marxism?

 

[Der Eisbär]

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

I'm gonna side with JBP on this one over random internet guy. Intelligent as you pretend to be we have no idea what your credentials are. You're going to have a hard time being taken seriously when you want to pretend cultural marxism isn't even real. It's the same thing as trying to pretend rape isnt a problem with refugees: it's a disqualifier from entering the conversation.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I'm gonna side with JBP on this one over random internet guy. Intelligent as you pretend to be we have no idea what your credentials are.

I have no idea what JBP is, but what credentials are needed here?

You're going to have a hard time being taken seriously when you want to pretend cultural marxism isn't even real. It's the same thing as trying to pretend rape isnt a problem with refugees: it's a disqualifier from entering the conversation.

Yes, of course. The only people worth discussing anything with are other internet trolls who agree with you.

 

[Falsedawn]

Kulturbolschewismus

*shakes fist*

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I have no idea what JBP is, but what credentials are needed here?

Jordan B Peterson:

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jordan B Peterson:

Summarize.

Does this guy write anything or just talk?

 

[Fawlty]

And the apologists show up on cue. Everyone is Alt-Right but nobody is a Marxist...got it

No. I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly apologizing for. Do you not know what apology is, in addition to not knowing what Marxism is?

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

It is not a bullshit term. Cultural Marxist describes the people who went from pitting the proletariat against the bourgeoisie to now creating all kinds of oppressed/oppressor dichotomies usually in the form of race and gender. It's an expanded form of Marx's original power dichotomy and instead of economics its about power. Who has power over whom and how can that power be shifted.

 

[Fawlty]

It is not a bullshit term. Cultural Marxist describes the people who went from pitting the proletariat against the bourgeoisie to now creating all kinds of oppressed/oppressor dichotomies usually in the form of race and gender. It's an expanded form of Marx's original power dichotomy and instead of economics its about power. Who has power over whom and how can that power be shifted.

This is why I joke about the real cultural marxism being the white fright crowd who force their oppression dialectic mess. They learned from fringe campus kids and are now bringing it into the mainstream right.

 

[Fawlty]

What about @Defanged? He uses it in every post.

I think he just wants to be the Dylan Klebold to Kone's Eric Harris.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It is not a bullshit term.

Easy test of that: Are you familiar with anyone who self-identifies as a "cultural Marxist"? What are their numbers?

Cultural Marxist describes the people who went from pitting the proletariat against the bourgeoisie to now creating all kinds of oppressed/oppressor dichotomies usually in the form of race and gender.

People who reject Marxism, in other words. Why are they called "Marxists," then?

 

[TheStruggle]

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

Yeah, Nazis and Commies were enemies. Just like you see ANTIFA fighting the Alt-Right today. National Socialists vs Communists, and if you actually listened to how both sides want to run the government, you realize their biggest difference is the believe in borders.

No. I'm not even sure what I'm supposedly apologizing for. Do you not know what apology is, in addition to not knowing what Marxism is?

Better Question, what's your definition of a liberal? then we'll work our way to Marxism

 

[electricfuneral]

Because they are trying to fix the left not the right, they don't agree with conservatives so why try to 'fix' them? The see the left is going batshit crazy into Marxism and they are calling them out. Would you have a problem with Conservatives calling out the far right? They are calling out the far left

I think conservatives that have been overly critical of trump do find themselves in the political centre these days, don't you?

 

[Fawlty]

Better Question, what's your definition of a liberal? then we'll work our way to Marxism

That's not a better question.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Summarize.

Does this guy write anything or just talk?

Peterson writes mainly about psychology and religion. I do not believe he has written anything about Postmodernism and cultural Marxism.

Here is a decent explanation here:

While classical Marxism argued that capitalism and the class structure it created must be overthrown because it is oppressive to workers, cultural Marxism argues that it is not economics that creates oppression but rather the nuclear family, traditional morality and concepts of race, gender and sexual identity. These are the chains of tyranny which must be broken by revolution.

Modern woman, are you unhappy in your marriage? Are the responsibilities of motherhood and the burdens of work getting you down? Patriarchy! Black man, do you feel hard done by? Does it seem like the deck is always stacked against you and you can’t get a break? Racism! Gay man, are you tired of the sneers and microaggressions of straight men? They’re afraid that they’re gay too. That’s why they hate you!

These are the narratives which are paraded endlessly in our education system. They are not natural or accidental. They have been constructed by intellectuals and academics who have had a radical agenda to transform the nation, and benefit themselves in the process.

Cultural Marxism is the Marxist dialectic fused with Freudian theory and applied to identity and culture. Like all forms of Marxism, it is based upon categorizing people into abstract groups and then creating a narrative of historical oppression between them. The strategy of Marxists is always to cultivate a victimized group and then convince its members that solidarity is required against the oppressors. This creates resentment and hatred and is how Marxist ideologies fulfill their revolutionary objectives.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/29/cultural-marxism-is-destroying-america/

 

[Der Eisbär]

Summarize.

Does this guy write anything or just talk?

You mean other than books and published research?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Yeah, Nazis and Commies were enemies. Just like you see ANTIFA fighting the Alt-Right today.

Sure, and the idea was to paint *all* of their enemies as communists, even ones who weren't. That's exactly how the term appears to be used by right-wing nutters today.

Better Question, what's your definition of a liberal? then we'll work our way to Marxism

A supporter of representative democracy, constitutionally limited gov't (with rights protected), a market-based economy, and reason-based decision-making (as opposed to revelation or tribalism).

 

[Jack V Savage]

Peterson writes mainly about psychology and religion. I do not believe he has written anything about Postmodernism and cultural Marxism.

Here is a decent explanation here:

While classical Marxism argued that capitalism and the class structure it created must be overthrown because it is oppressive to workers, cultural Marxism argues that it is not economics that creates oppression but rather the nuclear family, traditional morality and concepts of race, gender and sexual identity. These are the chains of tyranny which must be broken by revolution.

The Daily Caller? Really?

Yeah, so the idea is to draw an analogy between different strands of thought and then tie them together for propaganda purposes (to deceive people), right? Plus, it appears that people who use the term (note that you didn't answer my question that would determine if it were real or a bullshit term) tend to buy into a weird conspiracy where entertainment and education is controlled by these "Cultural Marxists."