A Classical Liberal & A Progressive Marxist Debate

[electricfuneral]

Could you explain this idea further please.

Some people like Carl, Dave Rubin have used their programs to platform people on the right and gain cross-over audience. They then use this new audience and mostly critique the left. They have guests from the right and basically leave their ideas unchallenged then have one sided editorial style videos on people from the left (think Carl vs Pakman). Some liberals have audiences on both sides and critique both sides like Sam Harris or Jimmy Dore. Classical Liberal seems to be the trendy way to say new libertarian these days. Most of the fake pundits on the left and right are just out for attention and not to educate anybody.

 

[goldennirvana]

"freedom allows white men to control everything"

Great response from Sargon. That pussy really doesn't understand how saying such a thing makes him a white supremacist. LELELELELELELEL

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Easy test of that: Are you familiar with anyone who self-identifies as a "cultural Marxist"? What are their numbers?

People who reject Marxism, in other words. Why are they called "Marxists," then?

I don't believe anyone would willingly label themselves a cultural Marxist. It is not a term of endearment.

In some ways, yes there was a rejection of Marxism among a certain group of intellectuals who were Marxist, but they realized there was a problem with Marx's dichotomy, focus on economics and that communism was not all it was made out to be. They borrowed certain ideas of Marx and shifted them to focus more on power relations, what caused those power relations and how power could be broken down and redistributed.

Most students today would have no clue about Marx. They would be more familiar with a thinker like Michel Foucault who is much more influential today than Marx. The term Cultural Marxist is not inaccurate considering how much influence Marx had on the current ideas being pushed in the humanities and identity studies programs in schools.

 

[TheStruggle]

A supporter of representative democracy, constitutionally limited gov't (with rights protected), a market-based economy, and reason-based decision-making (as opposed to revelation or tribalism).

And in the debate between Carl and Thomas, whose argument better fit the definition that you presented?

 

[TheStruggle]

That's not a better question.

Because it's one you can't answer

 

[Devout Pessimist]

The Daily Caller? Really?

Yeah, so the idea is to draw an analogy between different strands of thought and then tie them together for propaganda purposes (to deceive people), right? Plus, it appears that people who use the term (note that you didn't answer my question that would determine if it were real or a bullshit term) tend to buy into a weird conspiracy where entertainment and education is controlled by these "Cultural Marxists."

Yes, the idea is to focus on unfair power relations (real or perceived) between two groups in order to rile the oppressed group into action (of course, this happens all of the time in politics). And yes, there are people who make conspiracy theories around cultural Marxism. There is a legitimate issue in some universities where this is a growing problem.

The reason Jordan Peterson has gotten involved with this is because he was nearly fired from his job and has had numerous speaking engagements shut down by student activist coming out of the identity studies departments. His crime was speaking out against what he called a compelled speech law (Bill C-16 which has passed) that would force people to recognize trans people by their preferred pronoun and could be interpreted as a crime in failing to do so.

 

[dontsnitch]

I don't know who Thomas is, but he explicitly endorses racial discrimination and when Sargon objects, he calls him a snowflake. I tapped out at that point as I think it's pretty safe to say he's not worth listening to.

On a different note, it's fascinating to see people openly espouse racist views while attempting to hold the moral high ground. Weird times.

 

[TheStruggle]

"freedom allows white men to control everything"

Great response from Sargon. That pussy really doesn't understand how saying such a thing makes him a white supremacist. LELELELELELELEL

He went on to say that Blacks and Whites are not equal in society and literally rage quit the debate when called out. He completely lacks the self awareness to realise he sounds like the white supremacist he claims to be against like most progressives.


Also note how all the progressive posters itt didn't cite Thomas's argument when decrying Marxism to see if the guy in question was actually a Marxist? But you can't be a progressive with being a hypocrite

 

[themainman]

Be careful in this thread.
We don’t want the precious snowflake @TheStruggle crying about harassment again in support

 

[Fawlty]

Because it's one you can't answer

Have you ever seen a kid who just learned a few things, and then tells them to adults, thinking the adult doesn't know about them? If you keep at it, you'll get to that level one day.

 

[MilesAbove]

This kind of thing is just weird to me. Both of these guys suck. One of them seems underprepared for the counterpoints made, and the other one is an attention seeker. It's weird to see either one of these guys with any type of fanbase. So basically we have an idiot arguing against a man with no decency.

That is because people no longer hold the capacity or discipline to debate outside of Intelligence Squared. That is the only viable form of proper debate with intelligent individuals I see these days. Everything else is people pretending to be "debaters" while doing very little to research their opposition and prepare counter-arguments or lay proper logical gauntlets.

 

[TheStruggle]

Have you ever seen a kid who just learned a few things, and then tells them to adults, thinking the adult doesn't know about them? If you keep at it, you'll get to that level one day.

No substance, no principles


Classic Fawlty

 

[Defanged]

What about @Defanged? He uses it in every post.

I don't Marxist that every Marxist. What are you Marxisisting about ?

 

[MilesAbove]

I'm still befuddled by why "marxists" are described as such. They're just progressive-liberals. Few have read beyond recobblings of basic marxist theory of specific social politics. The man wrote a great deal.... more reading must be done to understand his qualities and faults. It's like my enjoyment of specific Kantian ideals.... doesn't make me a "Kantian".... it makes me a deontologist. I very much agree with Marx's compartmentalization and evolution of society. It doesn't mean I think the 20th century brand of communism works.

 

[Trotsky]

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

Very well said.

Better Question, what's your definition of a liberal? then we'll work our way to Marxism

I cannot imagine a question to which that would be a "better question."


Why work your way "to" the definition of Marxism from liberalism (which is a complete non sequitur in the usage of you and your kin) when you could start at Marx?

I'm gonna side with JBP on this one over random internet guy. Intelligent as you pretend to be we have no idea what your credentials are. You're going to have a hard time being taken seriously when you want to pretend cultural marxism isn't even real. It's the same thing as trying to pretend rape isnt a problem with refugees: it's a disqualifier from entering the conversation.

Fuck, you're such a terrible poster. No surprise you have such a lovely relationship here with the dude who was attempting to present the technology behind EMP devices killing 90% of Americans in a year's time.

Cultural Marxism isn't real. The people that use it are the same imbeciles that cite to Obamacare death panels and the War on Christmas.

 

[helltoupee]

Huh? Some people are Marxists. "Cultural Marxist" is a bullshit term, coined by Nazis (Kulturbolschewismus). Remember that Marx notably saw culture as being downstream from economics.

Shhh. Don't let the Jordan Peterson faithful or @IDL here you say this.

 

[unimackpass]

Shhh. Don't let the Jordan Peterson faithful or @IDL here you say this.

Honest question. What specifically do you disagree with Jordan Peterson on concerning this topic and what is your counter argument?

 

[Der Eisbär]

Fuck, you're such a terrible poster. No surprise you have such a lovely relationship here with the dude who was attempting to present the technology behind EMP devices killing 90% of Americans in a year's time.

uhhhh.....what? i dont have a relationship with anyone on here and have no idea wtf you're rambling about

Cultural Marxism isn't real. The people that use it are the same imbeciles that cite to Obamacare death panels and the War on Christmas.

Sure, it's not real. Also, the Frankfurt School doesn't exist. Postmodernism isn't real and it's a right wing conspiracy. Also intersectionality isn't real and the earth is flat. Right bruv?

 

[Trotsky]

Sure, it's not real. Also, the Frankfurt School doesn't exist. Postmodernism isn't real and it's a right wing conspiracy. Also intersectionality isn't real and the earth is flat. Right bruv?

Nice false equivocation. Great stuff. Complete nonsense meant make up for the utter lack of evidence of "cultural marxism" having any kind of real presence in academia or political thought. But great stuff.

You, Der Eisbar, being a trans-species child rapist isn't real? Sure, must mean the color green doesn't exist, gravity is a hoax, and George Washington was actually black.

 

[Der Eisbär]

Nice false equivocation. Great stuff. Complete nonsense meant make up for the utter lack of evidence of "cultural marxism" having any kind of real presence in academia or political thought. But great stuff.

You, Der Eisbar, being a trans-species child rapist isn't real? Sure, must mean the color green doesn't exist, gravity is a hoax, and George Washington was actually black.

By "lack of evidence" do you mean the completely traceable lineage of cultural marxist thought going back to the Frankfurt school and actual marxists? You are aware that "cultural marxism" is a term that was assigned to the ideology by critics, and not the actual terminology given by the creators of the ideology, right?