Television ANDOR (Dragonlord's Recommendation: One of the Best TV Shows of 2022, post #439)

[moreorless87]

Yeah I definitely agree. Also, I hadn't considered deeply the era of which they were made contributing to the different messaging, that's an excellent observation.

Agreed about the sequels too, TLJ I thought was going somewhere and at least tried to do something but upholds exactly what you're saying and goes back on anything remotely interesting it had going for it. Not to mention that even by the film's internal logic Poe was correct re: his disagreements with Leia and Holdo. It's also betrayal of Leia's character, she was literally a Rebel leader in the originals, I would think she'd appreciate someone going against the grain for the greater good, especially when it clearly made sense to do so.

I think you could argue Lucas was not blind to this other view of history either, whilst we see the Empire is led by "evil" men I think you also get the sense of "the banality of evil" from it as well. Most of the imperials below the very top tend not to be shown as especially evil, just careerists keeping their head down. Thats very different to The First Order who are turned into cartoon space nazis.

The Holdo plot to me is such a betrayal of Starwars, a franchise that previous(even if not that effectively in the prequels) was all about personal morality. If Poe was shown to be a bloodthirsty sexist who learns to better himself that wouldnt be a betrayal but the problem is he's not shown to be that. Leia makes a speech against his attacking the Imp ship at the start but really it rings totally false in a universe were she's taken down 3 superweapons and were Holdo rams the Imperials killing tens of thousands. Everything Poe does seems to be moral but the film basically pulls the carpet from under him, it tells him that he should follow authority, especially if its empowered by tokenism.

 

[chrisdiaz]

For the record I don't actually think you have poor taste for liking ROTS. The point is, like what you like, it's all good, we're not all gonna like nor appreciate the same shit.

The poor tastes comment was a joke, opinion is always subjective.

ROTS has a lot of cool scenes and you get to see Anakin become Vader. IDK how anyone doesnt like at least some of that movie. Only point I was making was Rogue One was the best star wars movie since ROTS. I think its pretty much accepted the ST is garbage. I was just surprised by how little happened in this show. When they actually bomb that Dam or whatever to get the credits that could have happened in Episode 3 not 6-7. This as well as almost all the Disney+ shows just have too much filler in them. Im sure a fan edit could clean this up.

 

[deviake]

I think you could argue Lucas was not blind to this other view of history either, whilst we see the Empire is led by "evil" men I think you also get the sense of "the banality of evil" from it as well. Most of the imperials below the very top tend not to be shown as especially evil, just careerists keeping their head down. Thats very different to The First Order who are turned into cartoon space nazis.

The Holdo plot to me is such a betrayal of Starwars, a franchise that previous(even if not that effectively in the prequels) was all about personal morality. If Poe was shown to be a bloodthirsty sexist who learns to better himself that wouldnt be a betrayal but the problem is he's not shown to be that. Leia makes a speech against his attacking the Imp ship at the start but really it rings totally false in a universe were she's taken down 3 superweapons and were Holdo rams the Imperials killing tens of thousands. Everything Poe does seems to be moral but the film basically pulls the carpet from under him, it tells him that he should follow authority, especially if its empowered by tokenism.

Also great points, though the "banality of evil" wasn't a focus in the OT it's quite clearly expressed and for the stories they were telling I think that works well. The villains weren't cartoony.

Yeah that's the thing, LTJ sorta tries to paint Poe as a hothead but really both the times he rebels (har har), but his decisions are logically sound and rationally made. Plus, he's never shown to be some sort of chauvinist so that doesn't track either and in the case of Holdo he clearly explains why he's disconcerted by they're current course of action before taking action himself, not something an arrogant "flyboy" would do. He ain't exactly Maverick in Top Gun who himself at least has an arc. Poe is shown to make both moral and logical decisions.

And "tokenism" is generally a good description of those movies.

 

[deviake]

The poor tastes comment was a joke, opinion is always subjective.

ROTS has a lot of cool scenes and you get to see Anakin become Vader. IDK how anyone doesnt like at least some of that movie. Only point I was making was Rogue One was the best star wars movie since ROTS. I think its pretty much accepted the ST is garbage. I was just surprised by how little happened in this show. When they actually bomb that Dam or whatever to get the credits that could have happened in Episode 3 not 6-7. This as well as almost all the Disney+ shows just have too much filler in them. Im sure a fan edit could clean this up.

Gotcha.

I generally like what the prequels were trying to accomplish just not the execution. I also like some of the things they added to the universe, from podracing to Palpies political plot to Order 66 which I think was a good way of explaining how so many Jedi got wipe out so quickly.

Yeah the sequel trilogy is ass. Andor I really like for the aforementioned reasons but I think it's fair to say it could be edited down. Andor for me falls into a couple genres I really like and executes well in those areas so I didn't have a big issue with the pacing because I like everything it's doing so much and there's a lotta attention to detail. That all said I getcha and I suspect they'll work on the pacing for the second season and hopefully keep the filler to a minimum.

I agree in general with Disney+ shows having too much filler.

 

[moreorless87]

Also great points, though the "banality of evil" wasn't a focus in the OT it's quite clearly expressed and for the stories they were telling I think that works well. The villains weren't cartoony.

Yeah that's the thing, LTJ sorta tries to paint Poe as a hothead but really both the times he rebels (har har), but his decisions are logically sound and rationally made. Plus, he's never shown to be some sort of chauvinist so that doesn't track either and in the case of Holdo he clearly explains why he's disconcerted by they're current course of action before taking action himself, not something an arrogant "flyboy" would do. He ain't exactly Maverick in Top Gun who himself at least has an arc. Poe is shown to make both moral and logical decisions.

And "tokenism" is generally a good description of those movies.

Its not really the prime focus but I do think its clearly present, the way Imp characters are mostly shown is not really as evil, only a few of those at the very top(Emperor, Vader, Tarkin, Motti) were as the rest are just "following orders". So I think that element was always part of STarwars, ready for something like Rogue One and Andor to exploit and make a bigger focus.

I know alt right types like to think of Last Jedi as some "radical left wing film" but the reality for me its realty the fulcrum of a style of blockbuster thats actually very pro establishment, one in which tokenism has replaced progressive anti establishment politics. I think it also marks the point at which those kinds of centralist liberal politics started to dominate film criticism generally.

 

[deviake]

Its not really the prime focus but I do think its clearly present, the way Imp characters are mostly shown is not really as evil, only a few of those at the very top(Emperor, Vader, Tarkin, Motti) were as the rest are just "following orders". So I think that element was always part of STarwars, ready for something like Rogue One and Andor to exploit and make a bigger focus.

I know alt right types like to think of Last Jedi as some "radical left wing film" but the reality for me its realty the fulcrum of a style of blockbuster thats actually very pro establishment, one in which tokenism has replaced progressive anti establishment politics. I think it also marks the point at which those kinds of centralist liberal politics started to dominate film criticism generally.

Agreed.

And yeah, TLJ is very milquetoast in that regard, there is nothing radical about it though alt right/conservative commentators like to get caught up in the surface level "purple haired lady talks down to guy" stuff, ultimately it's exactly how you say, very pro establishment which is the far more noteworthy aspect that the entire thing is built from.

 

[GSP_37]

I recently learned a third Andor actress had previously shown her naked boobs in a past role.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Sorry to hear you have poor tastes. What was good about the show? Which characters can you say you actually liked?

LOL like @deviake says, I also liked every character. But Luthen is the fucking best. Stone cold hardass. I won't spoil it since you said you didn't finish the series, but he has some scenes in the later episodes that would probably make you look at him differently.

But preferences are subjective. I will say there are a lot of Rogue One references and easter eggs and I think the style is similar. Agree the pacing is slow in places but at least for me, the pay offs were worth it big time.

ROTS has a lot of cool scenes and you get to see Anakin become Vader. IDK how anyone doesnt like at least some of that movie. Only point I was making was Rogue One was the best star wars movie since ROTS. I think its pretty much accepted the ST is garbage. I was just surprised by how little happened in this show. When they actually bomb that Dam or whatever to get the credits that could have happened in Episode 3 not 6-7. This as well as almost all the Disney+ shows just have too much filler in them. Im sure a fan edit could clean this up.

+100

ROTS is tied with ESB and might actually be my favorite SW movie. Despite it's shortcomings, Anakin becoming Vader was epic and Ewan sold the shit out of Christiansen in all their scenes. Without Ewan's Obi Wan that movie falls flat but with him, Anakin's fall comes off as a legit tragedy. Their bromance culminating in their ROTS duel and then Obi Wan lamenting him while his face is burning off was epic SW shit at its best.

Yes the ST sucks ass.

 

[Ares Black]

LOL like @deviake says, I also liked every character. But Luthen is the fucking best. Stone cold hardass. I won't spoil it since you said you didn't finish the series, but he has some scenes in the later episodes that would probably make you look at him differently.

But preferences are subjective. I will say there are a lot of Rogue One references and easter eggs and I think the style is similar. Agree the pacing is slow in places but at least for me, the pay offs were worth it big time.



+100

ROTS is tied with ESB and might actually be my favorite SW movie. Despite it's shortcomings, Anakin becoming Vader was epic and Ewan sold the shit out of Christiansen in all their scenes. Without Ewan's Obi Wan that movie falls flat but with him, Anakin's fall comes off as a legit tragedy. Their bromance culminating in their ROTS duel and then Obi Wan lamenting him while his face is burning off was epic SW shit at its best.

Luthen's monologue and Marva's funeral speech are two of the best pieces of writing in Star Wars IMO.

 

[rivera]

Had to bump this thread just to say screw you guys for talking this show up so much. I made it through 8 episodes and almost nothing happens. This is one of the slowest dullest shows Ive even seen. It had moments of decency but were upended by scene after scene of just sitting around and planning. Series could have been finished in 5-6 episodes easily. I liked Rouge One too (best star wars movie since ROTS) but this was just boring. They should just make Happy the Feige of Star wars, no one gets it better than he does.

ROTS is dogshit. A shame you can’t enjoy Andor but to compliment one of those awful prequels films in the same post criticizing this show is almost poetically ironic. I’m shocked you even made it 8 episodes with that in mind.

 

[Ares Black]

 

[Barksnight]

Great show.

Beat way to make SW great is to make it feel like its NOT Sw. Same way cowboy in space with a kid worked so well.

 

[moreorless87]

Great show.

Beat way to make SW great is to make it feel like its NOT Sw. Same way cowboy in space with a kid worked so well.

I think really thats something the prequels and sequels forgot, the idea that your basically making a genre film(or show) in a space setting, stuff like Rogue One, Mando and Andor does that.

 

[I Am Legion]

One of the major issues besides the poor writing, dialogue, woke bullshit, of the last movies was nothing was new or fresh. When SW came out, no one had seen anything like it. It was a whole new world, tech, characters. That was in the 70s! I think Andor succeeds, because it provides some freshness and new characters. Not characters that are there to fill social quotas. As for the pacing issues......that I do not understand as most of you watch Mando, and that MFer is hard to watch without caffeine.

 

[chrisdiaz]

I guess I will have to finish the show to see if it gets better as you guys stated. I watched the OBI-WAN show as a fan edited movie and I think they got it down to around 2 hours and 45 minutes. I know they got rid of an entire episode because it was a complete retread of another episode. I probably would have hated it without the edit, with the edit the show was tolerable.

 

[shunyata]

Great show.

Beat way to make SW great is to make it feel like its NOT Sw. Same way cowboy in space with a kid worked so well.

To be fair, you could reboot Lone Wolf and Cub in space, in the west, east, north, south and if you do it right it will always be good.

It's a shame they killed off Donnie Yen's monk character, a good director could pull off Zatoichi in space with a blind Donnie Yen wandering the galaxy, getting in trouble, and helping out common folk.

 

[moreorless87]

To be fair, you could reboot Lone Wolf and Cub in space, in the west, east, north, south and if you do it right it will always be good.

It's a shame they killed off Donnie Yen's monk character, a good director could pull off Zatoichi in space with a blind Donnie Yen wandering the galaxy, getting in trouble, and helping out common folk.

You could arguably still do that in a film/show set before Rogue One I spose.

Rogue One isnt really the story about Yen's character becoming heroic, that sub plot is more about Jiang Wens character being disillusioned.

 

[method115]

Started this and just got past the heist. This has easily been one of the best things out of Star Wars universe since rogue one. I did not enjoy mandalorian like most did.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

Started this and just got past the heist. This has easily been one of the best things out of Star Wars universe since rogue one. I did not enjoy mandalorian like most did.

If you don't hype it up... teh Mando deliverz.

However, If you show up wit unobtainable expectations & then proceed to dis it, then you enter teh void. I feel it's justified that all teh backslosh of people who don't know what they're talking about be acknowledged in teh bowelz of teh unobtanium. It's fantastic that teh trolls have a voice too... I'm not sure why... when we're here just talking aboot Star Warz n stuff.

 

[The Clinch]

Just finished the first season, what a great show.

Normally not a fan of prequel type things as the main character(s) are never in any real danger of death but this show pretty much avoided that.

Just sticky sitches that Andor busted the hell out of.

Great cinematography, acting, and writing. Looking forward to season 2.