Are Anabolic Steroids worth it?

Are steroids a long term commitment ?
Are there "benefits" from occasional cycled ?
 
1rawdog said:
Where is that please? At least roughly, I didn't see it in the notes though maybe I missed it and it's a long show.
@cincymma79 too if you or anyone else found it, thank you
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It's at about 43 minutes. All he is saying is that they immediately improve Nuerological efficiency and allow you to work harder in a given session. He is referencing women lifters and IFBB pros.
 
1rawdog said:
Where is that please? At least roughly, I didn't see it in the notes though maybe I missed it and it's a long show.
@cincymma79 too if you or anyone else found it, thank you
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Nevermind, I found it. I noticed they had a transcript so I searched there, I assume what @ROcknrollracing was referring to is at around 43:00.
What he says there is certainly part of the equation but to say that they don't help you recover faster is twisting things, it's wordplay. I'm all ears if anyone can provide an appreciable amount of legit scientific studies that say otherwise.

@ROcknrollracing I was typing while you posted, thanks for replying
 
1rawdog said:
Nevermind, I found it. I noticed they had a transcript so I searched there, I assume what @ROcknrollracing was referring to is at around 43:00.
What he says there is certainly part of the equation but to say that they don't help you recover faster is twisting things, it's wordplay. I'm all ears if anyone can provide an appreciable amount of legit scientific studies that say otherwise.

@ROcknrollracing I was typing while you posted, thanks for replying
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The point he is making is not that they don't improve recovery at all. The point is that is not the main reason IFBB pros and powerlifters take steroids. Look past the wordplay.
 
ROcknrollracing said:
...
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The point he is making is not that they don't improve recovery at all.
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That's not what you said though, if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation. You said -
ROcknrollracing said:
Steroids don't actually help you recover faster FWII
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Hence my reply.

The point is that is not the main reason IFBB pros and powerlifters take steroids.
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With the exception of a very small handful of specific compounds I disagree with this as well. I could name them but that may be inappropriate for this forum
Look past the wordplay.
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Why? From what I saw those were the only words he used and it's misleading and factually wrong.
 
1rawdog said:
That's not what you said though, if it was we wouldn't be having this conversation. You said -

Hence my reply.


With the exception of a very small handful of specific compounds I disagree with this as well. I could name them but that may be inappropriate for this forum

Why? From what I saw those were the only words he used and it's misleading and factually wrong.
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Did you read the entire transcript at that part or listen to the video? It isn't wrong but alas we can disagree
 
ROcknrollracing said:
Did you read the entire transcript at that part or listen to the video? It isn't wrong but alas we can disagree
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Yes I did, that whole section until the next timestamp in the transcript. Of course we can disagree, I was simply arguing against your statement and I appreciate the polite discussion.
 
www.t-nation.com

Anabolics and Overtraining: The Truth

Can lifters who use assistance really ever go overboard with training? Get the facts here, plus some tips for natural lifters.
www.t-nation.com www.t-nation.com

"So, Do Steroids Make You Recover Faster Or What?

Anabolic steroids speed up muscle repair because of their impact on protein synthesis and nitrogen retention. They also help with glycogen and creatine storage. So steroid users can definitely tolerate more volume in that regard.
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But what about neurological recovery?
As we saw earlier, many steroids will make the beta-adrenergic receptors more sensitive. This will help prevent neurological fatigue. If we make receptors more sensitive, it takes a lot more to make them desensitized, which is what leads to neurological fatigue.
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Furthermore, other steroids like Dianabol actually lower cortisol levels which will lead to lower adrenaline levels. Dianabol activates the dopamine receptors (the feel-good neurotransmitter) and decreases cortisol and adrenaline.
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Dianabol users report feeling more chill and relaxed. As such, it can also reduce the risk of desensitizing the beta-adrenergic receptors, helping delay or prevent neurological fatigue.
Click to expand...

So do steroids help with neurological recovery?

Well, it's not really that they help with recovery, but that they make it harder to achieve neurological fatigue by increasing the sensitivity of the beta-adrenergic receptors or even lowering adrenaline production.
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It should be clear by now that steroid users will have an advantage when it comes to tolerating any type of training stress, not just volume."
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Steroid gains are only temorary anyway. After you come off you loose the gains and go back to getting no puss. just the other day saw kali muscle talking about it his channel. He was basicallly on everything and huge as fuck. Got some health problems almost died and quit steroids and the guy is back to same size he was when he finished highscool. So all the shit he took was for nothing basically
 
mr.sandman said:
Steroid gains are only temorary anyway. After you come off you loose the gains and go back to getting no puss. just the other day saw kali muscle talking about it his channel. He was basicallly on everything and huge as fuck. Got some health problems almost died and quit steroids and the guy is back to same size he was when he finished highscool. So all the shit he took was for nothing basically
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"For nothing basically" like the achievement of a multimillion dollar net worth for him and his family?
 
mr.sandman said:
Steroid gains are only temorary anyway. After you come off you loose the gains and go back to getting no puss. just the other day saw kali muscle talking about it his channel. He was basicallly on everything and huge as fuck. Got some health problems almost died and quit steroids and the guy is back to same size he was when he finished highscool. So all the shit he took was for nothing basically
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This is not true. Even after a single cycle you will likely have potential advantages for the rest of your life over life long 'natural' athletes. Chalk it up to muscle memory or whatever else.

"

Steroids can benefit athletes for a decade after use​

New research suggests that athletes who use steroids for a short period can benefit for their entire careers.

Experiments with mice showed that a brief exposure to testosterone allowed the mice to rapidly regain muscle later in their lives.

The scientist behind the study says that if a similar effect can be shown in humans, it should lead to a lifetime ban for dopers.

The research has been published in the Journal of Physiology.

Norwegian scientists had previously published work that showed the existence of a "muscle memory".

This suggested that if people exercised when they were young, their muscles grew more easily when they exercised later in life.

The same team has now looked at the impact of a brief exposure to testosterone on mice.

They found that three months after the drug was withdrawn, their muscles grew by 30% after six days of exercise. A control group of mice saw growth of just 6% in the same time period.

"It is rare to have data that clear cut, I was pretty satisfied with that," Prof Kristian Gundersen, from the University of Oslo, told BBC News.

He explained that the drugs boost the number of cell nuclei in the muscle fibres.

Ten year benefit
These nuclei are key to building strength in muscles when people exercise and the mouse study suggests that these extra nuclei gained through using testosterone remain in the long term.

Prof Gundersen believes the same holds true for humans.

Despite the long held belief that steroid users lose the benefit of the drugs when they stop taking them, the Norwegian research suggests that even a brief exposure to steroids could have a long-lasting effect.

"If it is sufficient to build muscle mass, I think it would be sufficient to give you this long term effect. I think it could last 10 years but I don't have the data to back that up. It would be my speculation yes," he said.

The Norwegians believe that their research calls into question the current proposal from the World Anti Doping Agency (Wada) to raise the penalty for dopers from two years to four.

"In science if you cheat, you are out for life, and my personal view is that it should be similar for athletes," he said.

"It is a harsh treatment but if you really are cheating, I think that's reasonable."

The team has been given a grant from Wada to carry out further research on humans. They are developing the protocols for a study involving students at a sports college in Oslo.

The research follows on from work that was carried out in Sweden in the past few years.

Researchers found that power lifters who have stopped taking steroids had an advantage in their sport years after they stopped using the drugs.

The researchers discovered that the lifters who had once taken the drugs had a comparable number of cell nuclei in their quadriceps as athletes who were currently performing high intensity training.
"
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www.bbc.com

Steroids can benefit athletes for a decade after use

Research in mice indicates that using steroids can have muscle building benefits for far longer than previously believed.
www.bbc.com
 
ROcknrollracing said:
The point he is making is not that they don't improve recovery at all. The point is that is not the main reason IFBB pros and powerlifters take steroids. Look past the wordplay.
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People I know swear by BPC 157 including ex steroid users for recovery. One guy had surgery for a fully torn bicep and was back training within a few weeks. Now the previous steroid use was probably a major factor in him tearing his bicep, but I have seen multiple people recover rapidly from that specific peptide.

Too bad it's illegal where I live.
 
DEVILsSON said:
This is not true. Even after a single cycle you will likely have potential advantages for the rest of your life over life long 'natural' athletes. Chalk it up to muscle memory or whatever else.





www.bbc.com

Steroids can benefit athletes for a decade after use

Research in mice indicates that using steroids can have muscle building benefits for far longer than previously believed.
www.bbc.com
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This. Sure the acute gains are gone, but the overall increases hang around. The overall potential is increased initially simply due to the way the body works.
 
maximus__ said:
People I know swear by BPC 157 including ex steroid users for recovery. One guy had surgery for a fully torn bicep and was back training within a few weeks. Now the previous steroid use was probably a major factor in him tearing his bicep, but I have seen multiple people recover rapidly from that specific peptide.

Too bad it's illegal where I live.
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Probably but studies are bpc 157 are extremely limited mostly used on rats.
 
ROcknrollracing said:
Probably but studies are bpc 157 are extremely limited mostly used on rats.
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Yeah that's why it's still not approved. Anecdotally I have seen some really good examples of it working in people where it actually was the only thing they changed. I am all for stuff like that being used by athletes as opposed to using steroids in their place, once it's proven to be safe.

It's the same as all these guys jumping on "TRT" and basically using it as steroid replacement. There isn't enough data (the few times I have looked at it) it's not just a shitty cycle of steroids with the same consequences to be considered.
 
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