Are you for or against USADA?

acannxr said:
While I don't have any evidence to refute your opinion on Silva, there's more than enough evidence to suggest that Jones was attempting to game the system with his UFC 200 failure:
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/evidence-of-jones-guilt.3711725/
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I'm inclined to believe you but as you just mentioned, it was an attempt.

He failed regardless of how he tried to paint himself a victim of a simple misunderstanding. As a result he has to live with the understanding that the entire MMA community laughs about his flaccid dick, and being the first champ ever stripped of a championship TWICE. If there is a way to beat the system Jones is apparently too stupid to figure it out.

As far as Silva goes, he personally admitted his first failure as a means to allow him to return in such a short time from a crazy injury.
 
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Against, I would only be for a USADA ran by some divine being that shined a red light on all the fighters that have ever taken a banned substance in their career. This sport attracts simpletons that use a banned substance flagging to throw out fighters that they didn't like before they tested positive. In the sense that steroids gives a fighter some godlike advantage over fighters that don't use, how is it ever possible that those that don't test positive are able to beat them? I guess they just keep getting lucky, or you know, steroids doesn't develop UFC champ skills after injection. But if you admitted that, you would have to admit that steroids didn't account for 99% of that flagged fighter's victory, that would lead to you not being able to discredit a fighter's career based on the flagging of a banned substance. Not going to lie, I just get a little triggered by the mental gymnastics I encounter on this board. In my mind, if I can't 100% prove all fighters are on steroids at any given time under their contract, I don't care for those that are caught for slip ups or just bad luck.


edit:

TLDR: Understand, under the current system we are punishing those that are not good at not getting caught. If that is the game we are playing, then yeah, fine with holding those who played the game wrong accountable.
 
Geo_Mac said:
I'm inclined to believe you but as you just mentioned, it was attempt.

He failed regardless of how he tried to paint himself a victim of a simple misunderstanding. As a result he has to live with the understanding that the entire MMA community laughs about his flaccid dick, and being the first champ ever stripped of a championship TWICE. If there is a way to beat the system Jones is apparently too stupid to figure it out.

As far as Silva goes, he personally admitted his first failure as a means to allow him to return in such a short time from a crazy injury.
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Well, depending on Jones punishment for his second failure, if he's fighting again in 2018 then I'll stand validated, though I hope I'm proven wrong and some confidence can be restored in USADA's program. Because if fighters can game the system (i.e. Tainted supplements) then USADA is nothing more than a waste of money.
 
For.

The argument that some fighters will still use PEDs to cheat and get away with it is moot. If PEDs were allowed there would still be fighters who poked eyes deliberately. If eye pokes were made legal guys would still grab the fence. If grabbing the fence....you get the idea. Just because people will try to cheat doesn't mean the rules are bad.

In addition, USADA adds a veneer of legitimacy to the UFC. Not saying that it makes the UFC legitimate, but gives it the appearance. This is important for expanding the number of locations where MMA is sanctioned.
 
Blank7 said:
Against, I would only be for a USADA ran by some divine being that shined a red light on all the fighters that have ever taken a banned substance in their career. This sport attracts simpletons that use a banned substance flagging to throw out fighters that they didn't like before they tested positive. In the sense that steroids gives a fighter some godlike advantage over fighters that don't use, how is it ever possible that those that don't test positive are able to beat them? I guess they just keep getting lucky, or you know, steroids doesn't develop UFC champ skills after injection. But if you admitted that, you would have to admit that steroids didn't account for 99% of that flagged fighter's victory, that would lead to you not being able to discredit a fighter's career based on the flagging of a banned substance. Not going to lie, I just get a little triggered by the mental gymnastics I encounter on this board. In my mind, if I can't 100% prove all fighters are on steroids at any given time under their contract, I don't care for those that are caught for slip ups or just bad luck.
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I get where you're coming from, and in many cases I think you're pretty much spot on. Roids do not make you a champion, but if you are a contender with a great skill set and a champion's mindset, they can potentially take you from challenger to champion.

They are going to able to give you an edge over certain key people. A perfect example is the late career resurgence that Vitor Belfort experienced. He had all the tools but he was in a place where he couldn't seriously make another run until the HGH debacle came into play. He went from deflated has-been to a potential threat to the belt possessing the killer instinct he had in his younger days...where he was still on the juice.

Things come full circle sometimes.
 
acannxr said:
Well, depending on Jones punishment for his second failure, if he's fighting again in 2018 then I'll stand validated, though I hope I'm proven wrong and some confidence can be restored in USADA's program. Because if fighters can game the system (i.e. Tainted supplements) then USADA is nothing more than a waste of money.
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Funny you mentioned that, considering that he's essentially one of the few remaining golden geese the UFC has to utilize, I already called worst case scenario 4 year ban making the time spent away from the octagon already retroactive, giving him the next two year to sit out.

Doubt he gets a full suspension.
 
Against cause people will always find way to take em and get away with it.
 
Cheating with drugs is American culture.

I fully support it.
 
Performance enhancers have been part of professional sports since before mma existed. Now crybaby fanboys use it as default go to excuse for when their favorite fighter gets mauled.

Let them all do PEDs. PEDs won't make u champion. If that were case every meathead in every gym across America would be fighting in UFC.
 
Geo_Mac said:
I get where you're coming from, and in many cases I think you're pretty much spot on. Roids do not make you a champion, but if you are a contender with a great skill set and a champion's mindset, they can potentially take you from challenger to champion.

They are going to able to give you an edge over certain key people. A perfect example is the late career resurgence that Vitor Belfort experienced. He had all the tools but he was in a place where he couldn't seriously make another run until the HGH debacle came into play. He went from deflated has-been to a potential threat to the belt possessing the killer instinct he had in his younger days...where he was still on the juice.

Things come full circle sometimes.
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I see your point and agree, I don't think I could argue against it without getting super anal by arguing the advantage of the banned substance vs other tools in a fighters arsenal. In some cases you will have a grappling exchange where the fighters are equal in technique and thought (Fight IQ) at the time but the extra endurance/strength gained from substance abuse plays a part in the fighter securing the takedown from the position and finishing the fight. It would be foolish to deny steroids granting any advantage, I just think it is also foolish right now to discard the careers of those that get flagged and that their skills or intelligence in the fight aren't worth considering vs other greats who have never been flagged. There are champs right now who I would have a slightly skewed look towards if they did test positive but at the same time I still recognize that they possess skills I don't see in any of the contenders, these skills put them in that champion slot and while steroids would have played a decent roll in determining this, I don't think it played the largest roll and I don't think it should lead to the elimination of a fighter in discussions about the greats of the sport.
 
Blank7 said:
I see your point and agree, I don't think I could argue against it without getting super anal by arguing the advantage of the banned substance vs other tools in a fighters arsenal. In some cases you will have a grappling exchange where the fighters are equal in technique and thought (Fight IQ) at the time but the extra endurance/strength gained from substance abuse plays a part in the fighter securing the takedown from the position and finishing the fight. It would be foolish to deny steroids granting any advantage, I just think it is also foolish right now to discard the careers of those that get flagged and that their skills or intelligence in the fight aren't worth considering vs other greats who have never been flagged. There are champs right now who I would have a slightly skewed look towards if they did test positive but at the same time I still recognize that they possess skills I don't see in any of the contenders, these skills put them in that champion slot and while steroids would have played a decent roll in determining this, I don't think it played the largest roll and I don't think it should lead to the elimination of a fighter in discussions about the greats of the sport.
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Nice essay bro
 
Blank7 said:
I see your point and agree, I don't think I could argue against it without getting super anal by arguing the advantage of the banned substance vs other tools in a fighters arsenal. In some cases you will have a grappling exchange where the fighters are equal in technique and thought (Fight IQ) at the time but the extra endurance/strength gained from substance abuse plays a part in the fighter securing the takedown from the position and finishing the fight. It would be foolish to deny steroids granting any advantage, I just think it is also foolish right now to discard the careers of those that get flagged and that their skills or intelligence in the fight aren't worth considering vs other greats who have never been flagged. There are champs right now who I would have a slightly skewed look towards if they did test positive but at the same time I still recognize that they possess skills I don't see in any of the contenders, these skills put them in that champion slot and while steroids would have played a decent roll in determining this, I don't think it played the largest roll and I don't think it should lead to the elimination of a fighter in discussions about the greats of the sport.
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That's why I don't get guys like Jones, he has more than enough talent to win when he's fighting clean. Why take the risk?

Hell maybe it was the fight with Gustafsson, that would be enough to convince me that I needed an edge I suppose.
 
For. It was pretty fucked up to bring it in without consulting the fighters, and forcing then to sign an amendment to their contracts.
 
Geo_Mac said:
That's why I don't get guys like Jones, he has more than enough talent to win when he's fighting clean. Why take the risk?

Hell maybe it was the fight with Gustafsson, that would be enough to convince me that I needed an edge I suppose.
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For Jones, I would just chalk it up to being mentally unstable to an extent, that in combination with having the remain being the best in his and other peoples minds can only lead to self destruction in my opinion. I think he also spoke of having anxiety and a huge disbelief in his abilities which probably lead to him using. And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the Gus fight scared him, not suggesting he didn't use before that though.
 
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