Law Arizona House votes to repeal 1864 law banning abortions

[steveflynn]

I think getting a late abortion is abhorrent, not an early abortion.

Care to take a stab at the personal responsibility part of not getting pregnant in the first place? I'm still waiting for one of you guys to answer this.

Um, not really. I don’t think that the government should be passing bad, destructive laws based upon personal responsibility

 

[dirtypablo]

Is your logic really that something is okay to do because we've been doing it for all of human history? I guess rape is acceptable as well, right? Rethink your logic bud.

Just like I thought, personal responsibility only applies when the woman goes in to get an abortion but she has no personal responsibility for her actions before that very moment. You avoid this by pretending you don't give a shit. If you don't give a shit, then don't engage me in conversation when I'm talking about personal responsibility.

I already said that none of this applies to women that have been raped and I already covered that I'm not a no abortion after conception guy so I've already acknowledged a hell of a lot and I can't get any of you to even acknowledge that a woman has responsibility over her own actions before she walks into the abortion clinic. As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over because you cannot be honest about basic human responsibilities.

It's like you think that all abortions are just rape situations and that's not even close to the truth.




Everything you say that people "used" to do just involves people who didn't exercise personal responsibility.

Again, you cannot admit that there is any personal responsibility other than walking into an abortion clinic so we are done here as well.

If you ever want to be honest about this conversation, we can have it. Until then I have no desire to go back and forth with a liar that avoids the most basic and simple questions imaginable.

Lol, nice attempt at a deflection - I never said anything about something being justified because it was accepted in the past, and neither did either of the other two guys you tried the same line on. You clearly thought abortion was a new phenomena, and rather than admit to being ignorant about it, you tried to pivot and make up some nonsense about us justifying something because it was done it the past.

Its not even clear what you're getting at with your personal responsibility argument. What exactly are you looking for here? Us to all join in and say women are bad and irresponsible? People of all genders do irresponsible things all the time. If I don't brush my teeth, then go to the dentist and have a cavity should the dentist tell me to get fucked because I'm irresponsible for not brushing my teeth? And if I don't brush my teeth, isn't the responsible thing to go to the dentist and have it taken care of?

 

[Noveltymortar]

As a pragmatic republican, I hope the repeal gets signed into law. Regardless of my own personal views on abortion, republicans will keep losing elections if abortion remains a key voting issue, and I think this country desperately needs more republican leadership, not less.

 

[LMP]

If both sides would stop being crazy and just be honest and compromise, we would all be better off.

You said there is room for a compromise. I asked you about the compromise, then explained the 15 week abortion ban which is the most popular compromise proposal.

I don't even understand the point you're making. So there should be no restrictions on abortions?

Again, you completely ignored the personality responsibility part of not getting pregnant. Why can't you even admit that much?

Then you can't understand. "But compromise and personal responsibility". Bud you obviously are slacking on keeping up with the conversation.

Not getting pregnant is also ownership over your actions. Why is it impossible for you guys to admit that not getting pregnant in the first place is more responsible than getting pregnant and getting an abortion?

Don't even bring up rape because we arent talking about rape here. We're talking about consensual sex that leads to a pregnancy and abortion. It's like pulling teeth to get liberals to admit that people actually need to be responsible for their own actions BEFORE the abortion takes place.

You keep saying you are OK with first trimester abortion but that is when the majority of abortions happen. You seem ignorant to your own arguments. The majority of abortions after the first trimester are for medical emergencies. Your argument of personal responsibility has fallen completely flat like I told you it would. By all means keep repeating your nonsense no matter how wrong you are.

"You guys are being dishonest, even though I don't have a clue what I'm talking about."

 

[oscerthegrouch]

"Personal responsibility"
"Pull yourself up by your boot straps"

Anything other lines you want to throw out to justify shitty things Republicans do?

lol

 

[RoastBeast]

Ok it's apparent that not a single liberal on this forum can admit that a woman has a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she cannot support a child.

I don't even know why I waste my time with such dishonest people.

It's like if someone wastefully spends a bunch of money to have a good time in Vegas and then need to take out a loan to pay off their gambling expenses. I would say that the person should have been more responsible and not gambled all their money away but the liberals here say that the person did exercise personal responsibility by taking a loan out to pay their bills off.

Just asinine. I know you guys aren't that stupid. You're just too entrenched in this ridiculous ideology to be honest about the world.

 

[LMP]

Ok it's apparent that not a single liberal on this forum can admit that a woman has a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she cannot support a child.

I don't even know why I waste my time with such dishonest people.

It's like if someone wastefully spends a bunch of money to have a good time in Vegas and then need to take out a loan to pay off their gambling expenses. I would say that the person should have been more responsible and not gambled all their money away but the liberals here say that the person did exercise personal responsibility by taking a loan out to pay their bills off.

Just asinine. I know you guys aren't that stupid. You're just too entrenched in this ridiculous ideology to be honest about the world.

No your issues come from your lack of understanding. You say "hey I'm cool with a compromise that includes over 90% of abortions, but want to take the decision about health care concern away from the doctor and patient."

We have seen how the implementation of these bans are having negative effects. This is why people that support abortion bans one don't want a 15 week compromise. They don't want to take the abortion issue out of the state hands. The states that are putting these bans in place are being increasingly harsh and punishing women that make the decisions. They want to jail women for miscarriages. For fuck sakes at least attempt to understand your own arguments.

 

[ObsoleteSoul]

As a pragmatic republican, I hope the repeal gets signed into law. Regardless of my own personal views on abortion, republicans will keep losing elections if abortion remains a key voting issue, and I think this country desperately needs more republican leadership, not less.

Right there with you.

I think it is an absolutely foul and loathsome thing to do, but I cannot rule over everyone and what they do in their life, as I do not want the same for my life decisions. It is a persona thing that most of us can push aside for the big picture. It be what it be.

 

[RoastBeast]

No your issues come from your lack of understanding. You say "hey I'm cool with a compromise that includes over 90% of abortions, but want to take the decision about health care concern away from the doctor and patient."

We have seen how the implementation of these bans are having negative effects. This is why people that support abortion bans one don't want a 15 week compromise. They don't want to take the abortion issue out of the state hands. The states that are putting these bans in place are being increasingly harsh and punishing women that make the decisions. They want to jail women for miscarriages. For fuck sakes at least attempt to understand your own arguments.

I understand my own argument perfectly fine. You are just avoiding my question and attempting to talk about anything else possible because you are beholden to your radical ideology.

Not a single one of you can say that it is a woman's responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she cannot afford to have a baby.

 

[lifelessheap]

Am I allowed to post pictures of aborted human babies? Since they are just clumps of cells?

 

[DoctorNick]

Am I allowed to post pictures of aborted human babies? Since they are just clumps of cells?

Don't be scared homie

 

[Sinister]

No your issues come from your lack of understanding. You say "hey I'm cool with a compromise that includes over 90% of abortions, but want to take the decision about health care concern away from the doctor and patient."

We have seen how the implementation of these bans are having negative effects. This is why people that support abortion bans one don't want a 15 week compromise. They don't want to take the abortion issue out of the state hands. The states that are putting these bans in place are being increasingly harsh and punishing women that make the decisions. They want to jail women for miscarriages. For fuck sakes at least attempt to understand your own arguments.

He just doesnt want to say out loud that he thinks the ONLY women who pursue abortions beyond the first term are promiscuous sluts who f*ck raw dog too much and then delightedly schedule abortions so they can do it all over again. That's the image he has in his head and he's just trying to sanitize it with nonsensical virtue-signaling.

 

[syct23]

Am I allowed to post pictures of aborted human babies? Since they are just clumps of cells?

Go on…

 

[LMP]

He just doesnt want to say out loud that he thinks the ONLY women who pursue abortions beyond the first term are promiscuous sluts who f*ck raw dog too much and then delightedly schedule abortions so they can do it all over again. That's the image he has in his head and he's just trying to sanitize it with nonsensical virtue-signaling.

The "personal responsibility" argument is like denying medical treatment if you fall of a ladder. "Oh sorry about that broken back, guess you should have taken personal responsibility to not fall. Tough luck there." The whole point is to make is as tough as possible to get a medical procedure. They want to figure out a way to increase birth rates. The personal or medical reason for getting treatment be damned.

"I support a compromise", yet completely unable to see that their compromise literally changes nothing in most cases and harms women seeking treatment for health concerns the most. The threat of being put in prison for seeking an abortion for any reason and shaming women to prevent them seeking out treatment.

 

[RoastBeast]

The "personal responsibility" argument is like denying medical treatment if you fall of a ladder. "Oh sorry about that broken back, guess you should have taken personal responsibility to not fall. Tough luck there." The whole point is to make is as tough as possible to get a medical procedure. They want to figure out a way to increase birth rates. The personal or medical reason for getting treatment be damned.

"I support a compromise", yet completely unable to see that their compromise literally changes nothing in most cases and harms women seeking treatment for health concerns the most. The threat of being put in prison for seeking an abortion for any reason and shaming women to prevent them seeking out treatment.

You're comparing falling off a ladder to having unprotected sex? Lmao

You don't accidentally have unprotected sex like you can accidentally fall off a ladder. You don't need to utilize unprotected sex to fix something on a roof.

The dishonesty from you guys never ends, does it?

I'm for first trimester abortions being legal but that does not mean that women should not have a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place. How dishonest do you have to be to keep on pretending that you don't understand that simple concept?

 

[CubicleGangster]

You're comparing falling off a ladder to having unprotected sex? Lmao

You don't accidentally have unprotected sex like you can accidentally fall off a ladder. You don't need to utilize unprotected sex to fix something on a roof.

The dishonesty from you guys never ends, does it?

I'm for first trimester abortions being legal but that does not mean that women should not have a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place. How dishonest do you have to be to keep on pretending that you don't understand that simple concept?

Are you unaware that birth control is not 100% effective? Should we have a questionnaire before the procedure that asks if they were using protection and if they say no they get denied the procedure?
The falling off the ladder comparison is great way to illuminate this, btw. You can follow all the right safety measures and still have an accident occur where you fall off and get hurt. You'll still get treatment for injuries just like the jackass who was being unsafe and falls off his own ladder. They don't pick and choose treatment based on "personal responsibility" and even though you should take the responsibility to be safe we don't go around denying treatment based on it.

 

[Scerpi]

Ok it's apparent that not a single liberal on this forum can admit that a woman has a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she cannot support a child.

I don't even know why I waste my time with such dishonest people.

It's like if someone wastefully spends a bunch of money to have a good time in Vegas and then need to take out a loan to pay off their gambling expenses. I would say that the person should have been more responsible and not gambled all their money away but the liberals here say that the person did exercise personal responsibility by taking a loan out to pay their bills off.

Just asinine. I know you guys aren't that stupid. You're just too entrenched in this ridiculous ideology to be honest about the world.

So what? You don't like abortion and yes there's a many that come from "mistakes" or bad judgement.

But there's not many times in life where "Bad Judgement" leads to a massive change in your life for 18 years. Outside of a felony. A Bad Judgement fueled by raging hormones in young people... Asking a 17 year old girl to drop all her goals in life to dedicate the next 18 years to a kid.... often she's solo, because the males often bail like the worms they are. Give her the option to hit the reset button. Seriously... I'm not a fan of abortion, but you don't know the other person's life situation.

And you also have to realize this is an issue where a compromise has to be met. A compromise where people on both sides will be unhappy... mostly the extremes on both sides. But a huge number of people, even conservatives and independents agree there should be some allowances made for abortion. And Republicans need to stop pandering to the religious right on this topic. It's killing them... Like Democrats pandering to the crazy radicals on the left.

And @LMP's is right... 15 weeks is a good middle of the road number.

And maybe the spineless fucks in DC, both the Senate and House should pass a nationwide law instead of relying on previous court cases (Roe vs Wade) or the Supreme Court to make these decisions.

You know.. actually do their job. Democrats owned both houses before 2022. Why didn't they get off their asses and pass something when they had the chance? They cried and cried about the Supreme Court shooting down "Roe vs Wade"... yet they did nothing.

Because they are cowards... on both sides

 

[Scerpi]

Are you unaware that birth control is not 100% effective? Should we have a questionnaire before the procedure that asks if they were using protection and if they say no they get denied the procedure?
The falling off the ladder comparison is great way to illuminate this, btw. You can follow all the right safety measures and still have an accident occur where you fall off and get hurt. You'll still get treatment for injuries just like the jackass who was being unsafe and falls off his own ladder. They don't pick and choose treatment based on "personal responsibility" and even though you should take the responsibility to be safe we don't go around denying treatment based on it.

Many women don't know that some anti-biotics will negate the pill. Have a friend who got pregnant due an anti-biotic she was taking.

Either way... Stop the judging of young adults. Seriously, it can be less than 5 minutes of getting carried away of "bad judgement" that leads to 18 years taking care of a kid.

I got so lucky in my teens and twenties. I know I came close a few times to getting a girl pregnant. Not sure what would have happened if I had. Life would have been much different for sure.

 

[RoastBeast]

Are you unaware that birth control is not 100% effective? Should we have a questionnaire before the procedure that asks if they were using protection and if they say no they get denied the procedure?
The falling off the ladder comparison is great way to illuminate this, btw. You can follow all the right safety measures and still have an accident occur where you fall off and get hurt. You'll still get treatment for injuries just like the jackass who was being unsafe and falls off his own ladder. They don't pick and choose treatment based on "personal responsibility" and even though you should take the responsibility to be safe we don't go around denying treatment based on it.

A woman who has unprotected sex and has an unwanted pregnancy because of that has a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she can't afford to have a kid. It's pretty damn simple.

All you guys have are these random low percentage scenarios like rape and faulty birth control. You do realize that most girls get pregnant because they aren't on birth control, aren't raped and had unprotected sex, right?

So what? You don't like abortion and yes there's a many that come from "mistakes" or bad judgement.

But there's not many times in life where "Bad Judgement" leads to a massive change in your life for 18 years. Outside of a felony. A Bad Judgement fueled by raging hormones in young people... Asking a 17 year old girl to drop all her goals in life to dedicate the next 18 years to a kid.... often she's solo, because the males often bail like the worms they are. Give her the option to hit the reset button. Seriously... I'm not a fan of abortion, but you don't know the other person's life situation.

And you also have to realize this is an issue where a compromise has to be met. A compromise where people on both sides will be unhappy... mostly the extremes on both sides. But a huge number of people, even conservatives and independents agree there should be some allowances made for abortion. And Republicans need to stop pandering to the religious right on this topic. It's killing them... Like Democrats pandering to the crazy radicals on the left.

And @LMP's is right... 15 weeks is a good middle of the road number.

And maybe the spineless fucks in DC, both the Senate and House should pass a nationwide law instead of relying on previous court cases (Roe vs Wade) or the Supreme Court to make these decisions.

You know.. actually do their job. Democrats owned both houses before 2022. Why didn't they get off their asses and pass something when they had the chance? They cried and cried about the Supreme Court shooting down "Roe vs Wade"... yet they did nothing.

Because they are cowards... on both sides

I already said that I'm good with first trimester abortions. I don't like it but I think it's a fair compromise. I've said it multiple times already.

Is it not the responsibility of the people who had sex and couldn't afford to have a kid to not recklessly engage in the behavior that leads to pregnancy? You are usually of sound mind but are you really going to jump on the bandwagon that people aren't responsible for their own behaviors when having sex with each other?

It's so weird that not a single one of you guys can just simply say that people have a responsibility to not risk a pregnancy when they are not ready to take care of a child. I wouldn't buy things I can't afford or ride a dirt bike if I didn't have a health plan or drive a car if I didn't have car insurance. Bad things can happen if you irresponsibly engage in risky behaviors. When I was hooking up with random girls when I was younger, I always made sure I wore protection because I didn't want to risk getting the girl pregnant. It's not rocket science.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

A woman who has unprotected sex and has an unwanted pregnancy because of that has a personal responsibility to not get pregnant in the first place if she can't afford to have a kid. It's pretty damn simple.

All you guys have are these random low percentage scenarios like rape and faulty birth control. You do realize that most girls get pregnant because they aren't on birth control, aren't raped and had unprotected sex, right?



I already said that I'm good with first trimester abortions. I don't like it but I think it's a fair compromise. I've said it multiple times already.

Is it not the responsibility of the people who had sex and couldn't afford to have a kid to not recklessly engage in the behavior that leads to pregnancy? You are usually of sound mind but are you really going to jump on the bandwagon that people aren't responsible for their own behaviors when having sex with each other?

It's so weird that not a single one of you guys can just simply say that people have a responsibility to not risk a pregnancy when they are not ready to take care of a child. I wouldn't buy things I can't afford or ride a dirt bike if I didn't have a health plan or drive a car if I didn't have car insurance. Bad things can happen if you irresponsibly engage in risky behaviors. When I was hooking up with random girls when I was younger, I always made sure I wore protection because I didn't want to risk getting the girl pregnant. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science but it's also not black and white either. No female in the history of mankind has ever become pregnant on her own. Your argument is to basically provide contraceptives for women but the people who want zero tolerance abortion bans also lobby against having to provide such measures as normal health care benefits. And no matter how responsible you are sometimes shit happens. Common sense abortion laws don't include an investigation into whether the pregnant woman was responsible enough.