Crime Arizona Officer Shoots Unarmed Man: Acquitted

Excuse me, but who's the unreasonable one. I made the argument, sir. You did not.

Here you are in the thread complaining about a disgusting abuse of power, and yet now you're belittling the objection to allowing only the people in power access to weapons. Does that have a precedent to end well? Did it in this video? Moreover, how do you square those two exactly?
Sorry but it's a nonsense argument that I've seen regurgitated before by gun nuts, and I'm not getting into it again, take a look around the rest of the westernized world and see that you are living in the stone age in this regard and that this insane attachment comes at an terrible cost.

There's no coincidence that the vast majority of the world looks on dumbfounded by the American populations infatuation with firearms.

I see intelligent people spouting the kind of dribble you just did and the only real conclusions I come to is incredibly successful brainwashing.

I'm sure if I was in your spot I'd be saying the same stuff you are.

Anyway, waste of time, no one's changing there mind either way.
 
Sorry but it's a nonsense argument that I've seen regurgitated before by gun nuts, and I'm not getting into it again, take a look around the rest of the westernized world and see that you are living in the stone age in this regard and that this insane attachment comes at an terrible cost.

None of this is any kind of argument. What does the vast majority have to do with anything?

Are you implying that we're past people in power abusing it? As in we've reached the point where that doesn't happen anymore? What did we just see in the video then?
 
How big of a problem in England? How many actual incidents of someone armed with a knife threatening police or some person in England?


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/

Start with that, I’m done for the night will pick up tomorrow maybe.

Actually never mind, there are numerous threads done on this you can resurrect if you want to continue and we are derailing this thread a bit.
That article supports my point, why if there is more knife crime and violence in the UK per capita are the uk police almost never killing the perps?

1 in 8 years.

Whereas in the US the number is in the 1000's for that time scale?

Higher population of course plays a part, but clearly the reason is 99% of our police don't carry guns.
 
What's the massive harm? Because gov't is not the arbiter about what those costs should be (in fact its impossible for them to be)... and that's all you're objecting to here; the cost of adding in an extra piece to the car seat.

What if the added production expense just increases the cost of the unit past what a parent is looking to pay for it, and forgoes a seat all together, where they would have bought the cheaper model. Are there no safer car seats around? Why aren't they getting them? Reads like you're going to make a killing with that business plan to out all the other car seat manufactures as frauds!

And by the way, government not doing the regulating is not the same as having no regulation. At the margin the government performs its "regulatory duties" now, we still have private firms entering into the market place to offer that service (the BBB etc.). Even further still, who do you think the farmer is more concerned about with regard to the produce you eat? The supermarket inspector or the government regulator?
Just looked up and saw what thread we are in - we are massively off topic! I'll leave it there, but suffice to say, I don't think we are going to reach agreement.
 
None of this is any kind of argument. What does the vast majority have to do with anything?

Are you implying that we're past people in power abusing it? As in we've reached the point where that doesn't happen anymore? What did we just see in the video then?
I'm implying that none of that is a good enough argument for having an armed population, the down sides far out weigh any imagined fantasy future civil uprising...
 
I'm implying that none of that is a good enough reason for having an armed population, the down sides far out weigh any imagined fantasy future civil uprising...

Governments killed more of their own people last century than the black death .... outside of war. What's the number of deaths due to gun ownership minus homicides that would occur in lieu of no gun ownership?

I think you've been had, friend. In any event, I hope your chains lay lightly.

Also, good luck with the Muslim horde invading your country, while your government arrests anyone speaking against it by the way.
 
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That is horrible.

I understand the cop firing as the victim was reaching when clearly told not too. The moment he was advised to cross his legs and fingers and lay face down should've been the final instructions.

Fucking kneel and move towards me with your hands up? Majority of people can't even physically do that task.

I can see why they requested him to move towards them as the area wasn't deemed safe but that method was destined to fail.
 
Foreal!,,,
That would be the scariest shit in the world...arrests for profit,no thanks.
The real solution here is better screening/routine update testing/accountability,as in when officers perform this poorly they are prosecuted and sentenced properly.

If Johnny tacticool knows he can just blow away any person because the system will protect him..he’s probably less inclined to be selective and critical of his o.i.s scenarios


100% correct hold police to the same standards you hold the rest of the citizens and you should see a drop in police violence
 
That is horrible.

I understand the cop firing as the victim was reaching when clearly told not too. The moment he was advised to cross his legs and fingers and lay face down should've been the final instructions.

Fucking kneel and move towards me with your hands up? Majority of people can't even physically do that task.

I can see why they requested him to move towards them as the area wasn't deemed safe but that method was destined to fail.
Correct have him stand up with fingers interlocked above head, then have him walked towards you. There would have been no extra arm movement that crawling required.
 
Every one you can think of. Do you want gov't producing your cars? What about your healthcare? The principles that make decentralized markets effective don't change because the means of production* are different.

And BTW, who pays Blackwater?


Ok, how does this even work? I have a bunch of questions, serious questions, and some comments.

You have companies competing for business based upon their reputation and effectiveness, right? But everyone wants something different out of police. Some want hard ass, tough on crime, while others want community policing, while still others want minimal or no policing.

So policing a la carte, so to speak. Everyone gets the amount of policing they want to pay for, like insurance?

So person A wants the full package, so he goes with company, while person b wants a little less, and goes with company b. What happens if those two have a conflict and each call the cops and both companies arrive, or both have the same company.

Does the city decide what company and then each person decides how much coverage, or is it one levebof policing for the whole city, like it is now, only the city can hire or fire the company?

And how efficient is this model? Do you really think police work and learning a beat, history of the area and it’s people, history of the criminals is so easy to just simply pick up?


What if I can’t afford police? Do I get nothing, do I fend for myself? Or are we back to the city getting some level of coverage for all? So who decides what crimes the police will pay attention to, and how much effort goes into traffic enforcement versus patrolling? I know it could be similar to what happens now, where complaints are funneled through city council and onto police chief, or through crime watch meetings, or the officers observe what is happening and adjust what they do when not answering calls.

So those were my questions, my comments are not as involved, but observations based on almost 16 years. First, right now, besides some larger departments, officers answer calls and are pretty much on their own as to how they patrol.

The bullshit about quotas is mostly nonsense. I have not written a ticket in years. Not one word has ever been said to me about this. Granted, I am a lieutenant in charge of a whole shift and area of the city with 15 k people.

But I think a company that has profit incentive to write tickets and make arrests is not only immoral, but would be a fucking nightmare. You would have whole departments of little shithead traffic cops, but of course that is up to the company on how much money they want to make, and I am sure private companies would just want to serve and protect just like cops today.

I don’t like to lose cases or have cases unsolved, most cops feel the same way. Some don’t care at all. But if their very job depends on solving cases, they are going to make shit arrests and frame innocent people to close cases. It happens now, but there is relatively little pressure save some external and more internal pressure to solve cases. But if I don’t, I don’t lose my job.

The brass in a private police agency would be fanatic about cases getting solved and these would be businessmen and not police officers. Businessmen and pitchmen feeding the news advertising stories. Holy shit the level of self promotion from these private police agencies.

And not to mention, right now, police officers do the work because they want to go after criminals and make a difference. At least that is how they start out. With private policing, I see more security guard types and much less of what makes good cops. I sure as fuck would not work for a private company that wold move me around. Fuck that.
 
Correct have him stand up with fingers interlocked above head, then have him walked towards you. There would have been no extra arm movement that crawling required.

That's a better method than crawl kneeling to the officer. I still find that problematic as he was already face down, fingers lockers and legs crossed.
 
That article supports my point, why if there is more knife crime and violence in the UK per capita are the uk police almost never killing the perps?

1 in 8 years.

Whereas in the US the number is in the 1000's for that time scale?

Higher population of course plays a part, but clearly the reason is 99% of our police don't carry guns.

Police in the US are used to generate revenue. I don't know about the rest of the world. Also since the American people have been given the right to own guns, there is to be a certain amount of gun violence to be expected. That's the price of having that freedom. Other countries didnt want to keep that right, and that's fine.

In most state we have an amount of freedom to protect our property, guns help law abiding citizens do that. I can see how people would feel safe without guns. If someone doesn't take proper measures to keep their guns safely then guns can be very scary. A lot of people don't practice proper gun safety.

Police can't protect anyone unless they are there in that moment of danger. Only an individual can have any hope protect there family and property. I feel gun rights are important to people because of that. Guns should be treat with the proper amount of respect a dangerous tool deserves, same with motor vehicles.

If you use tools in a improper way they are dangerous. I have always felt that we should teach proper gun safety to people because they can be so dangerous to someone who is not trained to use them in a safe manner.
 
That's a better method than crawl kneeling to the officer. I still find that problematic as he was already face down, fingers lockers and legs crossed.

I believe that we're worried about someone else in the room. So to make entry safe they wanted the couple away from the door.
 
@nhhbear You're going to have to give me a bit to answer this.... there's a lot there. Normally, I don't even engage in the "how would it work" line of questioning for one because its actually beside the point, but two, mostly when people inquire... they're not actually being genuine with the inquiry. Despite the "fuck that" at the end, it doesn't read like you're disingenuous, so let me get back to you about addressing those questions.
 
Pretty disgusted with the posters siding with the cop in here.
 
@nhhbear You're going to have to give me a bit to answer this.... there's a lot there. Normally, I don't even engage in the "how would it work" line of questioning for one because its actually beside the point, but two, mostly when people inquire... they're not actually being genuine with the inquiry. Despite the "fuck that" at the end, it doesn't read like you're disingenuous, so let me get back to you about addressing those questions.

Fair enough. Those are legit questions. Aside from answering my own question with the city hiring a company, I have always understood this to be an individual responsibility to seek out your own police in private policing-at least how it is proposed on copblock. And I have asked those questions there, and I get fucking crickets.

And my “fuck it” was my personal feeling. I am about at the end of my rope with policing in general. I am so sick of rotating shifts, and now instead of changing monthly, we are doing three month rotations starting in January. So that is three months of midnight, which I hate more than anything and three months of afternoon, which my wife hates because of how stressful it is to handle all three kids. So I may just quit and become a teacher or something else not law enforcement.
 
Police in the US are used to generate revenue. I don't know about the rest of the world. Also since the American people have been given the right to own guns, there is to be a certain amount of gun violence to be expected. That's the price of having that freedom. Other countries didnt want to keep that right, and that's fine.

In most state we have an amount of freedom to protect our property, guns help law abiding citizens do that. I can see how people would feel safe without guns. If someone doesn't take proper measures to keep their guns safely then guns can be very scary. A lot of people don't practice proper gun safety.

Police can't protect anyone unless they are there in that moment of danger. Only an individual can have any hope protect there family and property. I feel gun rights are important to people because of that. Guns should be treat with the proper amount of respect a dangerous tool deserves, same with motor vehicles.

If you use tools in a improper way they are dangerous. I have always felt that we should teach proper gun safety to people because they can be so dangerous to someone who is not trained to use them in a safe manner.

No. Police do not just generate revenue. Some small departments Rey on that, but I have not written a ticket in years. Also, I have stopped many crimes in progress in my 15 years. One time, I kicked in a door to find a man with a fan cord wrapped around a woman’s neck and we obviously saved her life. So we don’t just show up after the fact.
 
100% correct hold police to the same standards you hold the rest of the citizens and you should see a drop in police violence


The thing is you can’t actually hold police to the same exact standards as the public. Why? Because your average citizen is never going to have to make arrests, actually fight with someone to put them in cuffs, or have an adversarial role against criminals. Cops are put in so many circumstances where they have to put their hands on people, or are faced with potentially armed subjects. It is our duty to do so, we signed up for it, but with that responsibility comes a little leeway.
 
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I'm absolutely stunned and disgusted with that verdict, I honestly think if I was American i'd be looking to emigrate, the rest of the civilised world should be treating the US with the same trepidation they do North Korea.
I moved out of the states about 6 or 7 years ago.
I turn on the news, see shit like this, Trump, and all of the other bullshit, and I am just fucking ashamed of the country. The priorities of America are just so fucking out of whack that I can't relate anymore. Freedom to own a gun > Another person's life, listen to a cop or DIE, fuck poor people, fuck conversations, it's just a bunch of bullshit.
There's nothing "first world " about this incident
 
No. Police do not just generate revenue. Some small departments Rey on that, but I have not written a ticket in years. Also, I have stopped many crimes in progress in my 15 years. One time, I kicked in a door to find a man with a fan cord wrapped around a woman’s neck and we obviously saved her life. So we don’t just show up after the fact.

I agree police arent JUST for raising revenue, but a lot of cities use them in this manner. I also agree police can stop crimes, but a person can not think that police can protect them all the time, it's just not possible. In this thread it might seem im against police, I'm not I do believe we need police.

Police should be held to the same standards of other citizens, if I would be charge and convicted of a crime for an action so should an officer of the law. Police should not be above accountability. That's the root of BlM.
 
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