Be ruled by trash or admit you were wrong?

You have to up your trollery game.

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tdluxon said:
Literally every day, more and more off-putting, concerning and sometimes frightening information comes out regarding the US president, Donald Trump. At best, he's a morally bankrupt liar and swindler, at worst he could be a traitor in collusion with one of the country's biggest enemies.

Despite this however, whenever something new is revealed his supporters continue defending him as vehemently as ever, whether through conspiracy theories about the FBI and Robert mueller, changing the topic to criticism of Hilary Clinton, liberal media and deep state theories, or prejudicial rhetoric. The worse he looks, the deeper they dig in the heels. All while, unless you are a huge corporation, he hasn't done shit to help you. And on top of it, although his supporters are (or claim) to be conservatives, he consistently goes against traditional conservative positions on especially on family values, fiscal conservatism, national security, Christian values and states rights.

What will it take to convince Trump supporters to turn against him? Would proof of perjury or campaign finance violations be enough? From what I see, even if he was proven guilty of either his supporters wouldn't care, it'd just be a fake news liberal conspiracy. Murder? Secrets to the Russians?

To me it seems like the only thing that would convince his supporters to change their minds would be if it came out he was banging Hilary
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Fawlty said:
The attacks on Ukraine and the massive spying busted up by Obama (who probably had our guard down a little) are beyond political convenience. Even within what a person could classify as political convenience are different things- the appearance (and to my mind, very high likelihood) that our President is in bed with the Kremlin, the outrageous backdooring of the State Department during the campaign and also before even taking office- these I think are very important to people. For sure there is political convenience to attacking the side that won unfairly, or even fairly, but there is also a lot of meat on that bone.
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Where was the outrage when the Russians were spying on Georgia after they joined NATO? Where was the outrage when they attacked Estonia? I will say that we took the right approach after Crimea, but I think that was where the shift in policy was effective. I will also say that the Republicans are very wrong in their rhetoric in regards to the Russians in regard to how they have attempted to influence our election. I can also that our reallocation of forces in Europe and increased hostility towards them (look no further than our recent strike on Russian troops in Syria) shows that our actions and our words are not aligned. I agree that the Democrats are right to chastise the Administration for its handling of Russian diplomats prior to the election, but I am left wondering how much they are in bed with the Kremlin in light of all that public action. I still think that even the rhetoric is wrong, and we (and the rest of the world) need to treat Russia like it really is: an oligarchy of corrupt thugs.
 
tdluxon said:
Literally every day, more and more off-putting, concerning and sometimes frightening information comes out regarding the US president, Donald Trump. At best, he's a morally bankrupt liar and swindler, at worst he could be a traitor in collusion with one of the country's biggest enemies.

Despite this however, whenever something new is revealed his supporters continue defending him as vehemently as ever, whether through conspiracy theories about the FBI and Robert mueller, changing the topic to criticism of Hilary Clinton, liberal media and deep state theories, or prejudicial rhetoric. The worse he looks, the deeper they dig in the heels. All while, unless you are a huge corporation, he hasn't done shit to help you. And on top of it, although his supporters are (or claim) to be conservatives, he consistently goes against traditional conservative positions on especially on family values, fiscal conservatism, national security, Christian values and states rights.

What will it take to convince Trump supporters to turn against him? Would proof of perjury or campaign finance violations be enough? From what I see, even if he was proven guilty of either his supporters wouldn't care, it'd just be a fake news liberal conspiracy. Murder? Secrets to the Russians?

To me it seems like the only thing that would convince his supporters to change their minds would be if it came out he was banging Hilary
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You dance with the one who brought you;)

Politics is a full contact team sport. And like Vince said, "Winning ain't the main thing. It's the only thing". If your side winning also happens to be good for the nation as a whole, that's a nice bonus. But beating the other team is what really matters.
 
sub_thug said:
Where was the outrage when the Russians were spying on Georgia after they joined NATO? Where was the outrage when they attacked Estonia?
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Yeah, no one cared then either. At least with Georgia we had some reason to get their backs. They came along for the "Coalitiion of the willing" Iraq debacle and then we abandoned them.

At a certain point realpolitik has to take over and reassert the reality that as a regional power, Russia is not prepared to tolerate further growth of EU/NATO across the central European plain toward their border. And that if we say we're going to do something, and we blink as we always seem to do, that it's better to say nothing.
 
Mark Hunts FIST said:
Sure but what I would complain about and what you would complain about would be two different things.
1. I would complain we haven't deported more people.
2. I would complain that he's too sensitive.
3. I would complain that he spends too much time on Twitter.
4. He spends Too much time on golf.
5. I would complain that Ivanka is in his ear.

Until proven otherwise I will defend him for colluding with the Russian government in order to win the presidency.
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I wasn't necessarily directing my post at you personally, just the idea in general that there seems to be a lot of people who are celebrating the taste of shit because "liberal tears" or something. Seems weird to me.
 
sub_thug said:
There's a really strange thing going on where partisan individuals switch their stance based on who is talking.

In the 2012 campaign, Mitt Romney said that the Russians were the biggest threat to the US in the world. President Obama responded by joking that the Cold War was over, and the 1980's want their foreign policy back.


Now, it's the Democrats who have consciously decided that the Russians are the bad guys, while it's the Republicans who have taken a much softer stance.

My take: The Republicans were correct then, and the Democrats are correct now. That said, this political "flip-flopping" undermines much of the authenticity of such a principled stance. It makes the whole thing appear to be about what is convenient for each of the major parties at the time, not what is actually right or good for America.
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So Russia is the bad guy. Is China the good guy, or an ok guy?
 
Byron Carter said:
Was Russia "one of the country's biggest" enemies when Hillary Clinton sold 20% of our Uranium stockpile to them?
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I can't believe there are still people repeating this. You really should do some research.
 
There was'nt escape though

Be ruled by trash or admit you were wrong?

will have been still true with Hillary as potus lol
 
Ice That Jaw said:
So Russia is the bad guy. Is China the good guy, or an ok guy?
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Definitely a bad guy. Cyber espionage and stealing propriety information from companies all over the world isn’t cool.
 
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