Brian Ortega asked Dana White to be paid for UFC 226

[Mafanofe]

i like this dude but this isnt how these things work..

 

[ineverpost]

I totally get his move, but it may backfire considering the baldfather’s ways.

Only if he loses. They are desperate to hype anyone they can at this point.

 

[Workaholic]

Ya I'm aware. As i stated earlier until The question of contractor classification is resolved a union would be unworkable.

How do you even unionize a sport where a large portion of its participants live in other countries?

The question of contractor classification can not be resolved without collective action. The UFC isn't going to do it themselves. Unionization in an exempted monopoly is the end goal here not an immediate step

I think you think I'm suggesting they immediately unionize. I'm not, it's unfeasible and unrealistic. I am suggesting collective action towards things like employee classification, challenging the UFC's right to act as a monopoly etc. and eventually unionizing off the backs of those gains

The worldwide thing is unlikely to be much of a problem in 2018

 

[Mike]

Show me the evidence of a fighter having a contract that forces the UFC to pay up even if the fighter fallsout.....I been following MMA for a while...That literally has never been part of a contract.

I do remember on rare fucking occasions, the UFC paying a fighter show money but it was not part of the contract.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/4/...or-mcgregor-chiesa-borg-lobov-iaquinta-khabib

Yes Fighters can renegotiate in special circumstances like filling up short notice...it's for money tho.

No, my argument is not that....Im realistic enough to know that the UFC would never agreed to such terms....So I understand why fighters don't negotiate it for it...It's literally a losing cause for 90% of fighters unless they have leverage.....Ortega doesn't have leverage at all.

Ortega shouldn't expect it but he has the right to tell the media and be disappointed......Some fighters believe in good faith, sadly they should expect corporations to fuck them over but I understand why Ortega is disappointed in this billion dollar company, not being able to give him $100k or atleast something for the actual work he did....and yes Promos, Media, weight cutting, etc is work.

You're a corporate shill because you are clearly in the side of the UFC and are making shit up by saying Contracts in the past have stipulations about fighters getting show money if the opponent drops out.

I said fighters have been paid when an opponent drops out, which means it HAS been negotiated in the past. The only time we get to see the language in a contract is during rare court battles, for example Couture and Alvarez.


Yes thinking you have some sort of good faith agreement is well intentioned, but naive. I actually fall on the side of the fighters in most financial disputes. I've said over and over, for years, that the ufc lowballs fighters, and their contracts are downright abusive. I said it earlier in this very thread. Being on the side of the fighters has nothing to do with understanding how contracts and corporations work. Fighters are getting screwed for sure. If they don't like it their options are:

become an indispensable superstar in the ufc, build a rep and gain leverage crushing cans outside the ufc, become a world champion, get a better manager, work free agency after they fight out their contract, or work to unionize. Saying wouldn't it be nice if the ufc wasn't run by douches doesn't get us anywhere. It's true, but meaningless. The world isn't run by nice people doing things out of the goodness of their heart.

 

[SleepyBoy]

He should not get paid for not fighting, however he should get something for doing media junk.

Fighters shouldn't be forced to promote a product that they aren't benefiting from, free of charge.

The fighters are not employees of the UFC and should not have to denote their time like they are charities. The UFC isn't a charity so why should the fighters companies be charities, being forced to provide value free of charge.

 

[Cowboy787]

I see his point about his time for interviews and marketing etc. Maybe they could make them hourly contractors for their marketing work and interviews/open workouts etc. Have them sign as a part of their contract what their hourly wage would be for all non fight related work etc.

 

[GOATER]

I said fighters have been paid when an opponent drops out, which means it HAS been negotiated in the past. The only time we get to see the language in a contract is during rare court battles, for example Couture and Alvarez.


Yes thinking you have some sort of good faith agreement is well intentioned, but naive. I actually fall on the side of the fighters in most financial disputes. I've said over and over, for years, that the ufc lowballs fighters, and their contracts are downright abusive. I said it earlier in this very thread. Being on the side of the fighters has nothing to do with understanding how contracts and corporations work. Fighters are getting screwed for sure. If they don't like it their options are: become an indispensable superstar in the ufc, build a rep and gain leverage crushing cans outside the ufc, become a world champion, get a better manager, or work to unionize. Saying wouldn't it be nice if the ufc wasn't run by douches doesn't get us anywhere. It's true, but meaningless. The word isn't run by nice people doing things out of the goodness of their heart.

@Mike

Again, show me links to fighters getting paid even though their opponent fell out that wasn't good faith....I showed you a link where it happened, but it was clear that it was out of good faith of the UFC since the golden boy, Conor fucked them over.

Couture mention backroom bonuses, never mentioned getting paid even if a fighter drops out...Also both Couture/Alvarez had some leverage unlike Ortega.

I agree fighters are being fucked over and they need to do something to get leverage...However the comments of "If they don't like it, they should of negotiated before hand, their fault" statements are absolutely not grounded in reality. You said it yourself UFC has leverage and fuck over fighters, they would not agree to such terms, specially with Brian Ortega who is a contender, not a huge name, and at the mercy of the UFC.

So yes, I have a problem with giving an unrealistic stupid false statement of "Yeah bro, they should've negotiated, their fault" as if the UFC would agree lol.

 

[Alpha_T83]

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

Pretty much this. It boggles my mind that people can be so communist and socialist that they think someone should get paid for not doing their jobs. Then again, it's probably just the bullshit special snowflake millennial ideology.

As you said, if the UFC pays fighters that refuse to take on overweight opponents or refuse to accept replacement fights, why would anyone accept those fights???? I'd much rather get paid 100k to not fight, rather than get paid 100k to get beat up and maybe earn another 100k if I win.

 

[BoD 2.0]

Completely disagree, his job was to fight July 7th. Holloway pulled out. Shit happens, not UFC’s fault. If it were on Friday and they couldnt get a replacement, ortega would deserve full compensation, because he showed up and tried to fight (Ala Pettis and Chiesa with the bus inc

However, this shit was on Wednesday and he was offered two opportunities to stay on the card (AKA, two opportunities to go to work), and he turned them down. It’s a smart move to wait for the title but if you turn down fights, you’re obviously sacrificing your purse this weekend for potentially more money later. It’s clearly one of the cons of not staying on the card.

If you were allowed to turn down replacements and get paid anyway you’d have to be a world class imbecile to ever take a replacement fight when you could get paid to sit with your thumb up your ass.

No sir, you are wrong. UFC treats these fighters as contractors. They sign fight agreements. And those fight agreements don't just have a date and time, they have an OPPONENT. If a fighter gets injured, that is a risk the UFC takes, it is their show, they recieve the profits on it. They shouldn't push that risk on the fighters who have held up their end of the agreement.

 

[Mike]

@Mike

Again, show me links to fighters getting paid even though their opponent fell out that wasn't good faith....I showed you a link where it happened, but it was clear that it was out of good faith of the UFC since the golden boy, Conor fucked them over.

Couture mention backroom bonuses, never mentioned getting paid even if a fighter drops out...Also both Couture/Alvarez had some leverage unlike Ortega.

I agree fighters are being fucked over and they need to do something to get leverage...However the comments of "If they don't like it, they should of negotiated before hand, their fault" statements are absolutely not grounded in reality. You said it yourself UFC has leverage and fuck over fighters, they would not agree to such terms, specially with Brian Ortega who is a contended, not a huge name, and at the mercy of the UFC.

So yes, I have a problem with giving an unrealistic stupid false statement of "Yeah bro, they should've negotiated, their fault" as if the UFC would agree lol.

I didn't say it was in their contract. I said it's come out before that fighters got their show money when their opponent dropped out last minute. Which means, somehow, they negotiated that with the ufc outside the terms of their contract. Or, it was in the terms of their contract and not disclosed. We don't often get contract details unless something goes to court, which typically only happens with high profile fighters that would have above average leverage.

I didn't say well fuck em for not getting it in writing, but it is not surprising a large corporation doesn't make a habit of giving payouts above and beyond what was promised. If fighters dorpping out last second becomes more common, than yes that is a provision it would be smart to attempt to get in writing. How successful you would be in doing that would depend on your value to them. They let Rory, Benson,Hendo, Werdum, etc walk. Those guys refused to be lowballed and were willing to fight outside of the ufc to get a better contract. They cannot just let everyone go to Bellator. The more guys that are willing to play hardball and actually leave if they get unfavorable terms, the better it will be for other fighters. If fighters keep playing the company man, when veterans are up front that being a company man got them nowhere, they're going to keep getting the same treatment.

 

[BjPenn2017]

Dana - "Brian, Holloway pulled out but we have Jeremy Stephens to fight you."

Brian - "I don't want to fight him and risk my shot. God's plan. Do I still get paid tho?"

Dana - "No. You didn't fight, God's plan."

 

[Luvhawky]

I've wanted this for awhile (along with cage-side weigh-ins). But surely a nightmare to entice upper echelon guys to be a standby. Combined with the assumption the UFC laughing at the idea of paying a fighter not to fight.. makes it unfortunately unlikely.

I think guys rank 7-12 would gladly stay ready for a chance to jump up the rankings and at the very least, they get an extra payday without delaying their next payday.

As for the UFC paying a fighter not to fight, that is offset when the injuries do happen. The injured fighters don't get paid. But yeah it's a hit to their margins for sure. But I think that removes volatility in their revenue streams.

 

[Van_Damage]

Back in africa I learned that poor people will perform any trick of your choice for just a bag of m&m's. I think that's the approach the UFC should use when dealing with fighters. They have become too spoiled

poor or homeless people will do that in murica too
I had this friend (not anymore) that when asked for money, he asked them to dance, which most of them did, and then he gave them a dollar.

I know there's little negotiating power for these fighters and their contracts, but some compensation for this type of scenario would make a lot of sense. Probably not the full "show" money, but something, if even peanuts.

 

[gunlok]

What’s ironic is Ortega said he didn’t want to throw away his title shot but that is exactly what he did.

The ufc handed him an interim title fight where the title holder may never fight at 145 again.

Damn Ortega, the ufc handed this to you on a silver plate and you ran away.

To be fair, we still know very little of Max Holloway's situation. And before 226 we knew nothing at all. Max can be out for a month, for all we know. Ortega may have thought that they may fight for the belt on the next PPV or something.

 

[Delicate Gee]

poor or homeless people will do that in murica too
I had this friend (not anymore) that when asked for money, he asked them to dance, which most of them did, and then he gave them a dollar.

sounds like a great guy.

 

[GOATER]

I didn't say it was in their contract. I said it's come out before that fighters got their show money when their opponent dropped out last minute. Which means, somehow, they negotiated that with the ufc outside the terms of their contract. Or, it was in the terms of their contract and not disclosed. We don't often get contract details unless something goes to court, which typically only happens with high profile fighters that would have above average leverage.

I didn't say well fuck em for not getting it in writing, but it is not surprising a large corporation doesn't make a habit of giving payouts above and beyond what was promised. If fighters dorpping out last second becomes more common, than yes that is a provision it would be smart to attempt to get in writing. How successful you would be in doing that would depend on your value to them. They let Rory, Benson,Hendo, Werdum, etc walk. Those guys refused to be lowballed and were willing to fight outside of the ufc to get a better contract. They cannot just let everyone go to Bellator. The more guys that are willing to play hardball and actually leave if they get unfavorable terms, the better it will be for other fighters. If fighters keep playing the company man, when veterans are up front that being a company man got them nowhere, they're going to keep getting the same treatment.

@Mike

Like I said I really doubt they were terms in their contracts..the only times the UFC paid fighters show money, it was clearly based on good faith.

I agree they need a provision...but like you said UFC has let fighters go and talkshit after..I understand why guy's like Ortega wouldn't want to risk and be cut...Having said that, I agree fighters need to stop being company men, but it's hard when the UFC is a hype machine that can easily hype others into title shots as fuck over fighters like ortega.

I hope one day fighters do stand up for themselves...if many of them did, they would have a shitload of leverage.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Considering the stats on pull outs I can see why the UFC isn't going to guarantee show money -- however I would like to see them pay a replacement fighter a reasonable fee to be ready and to fill in just in case and the two original fighters formally agreeing to fight said replacement if and when a pull out should happen.

 

[pamirec]

Fighters need have everything on their contract including agreement on last min replacement. All the possibilities. Who they can decline, cases where they can ask for more money and so on.
Yes, some mofos fight whoever the UFC puts in front of them, but that doesn’t all the fighters should do the same. It really matters when you prepare for a wrestler for two months, and the day before the fight they bring in a stand up killer.

 

[Morning Star]

Hard to feel bad for the guy. He made the choice to preserve his title shot rather than do what he was actually getting paid for.

 

[Shaddows]

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

you seem out of touch with reality.
UFC always paid fighters when their opponents get injured.
Only as of late they started demanding them to either accept a last minute replacement or else they don't get paid (first time was Vitor).
And plenty of fighters fought replacement anyway.

Don't forget: If they don't fight, they don't get win money and they don't climb though the rankings.
And most of them wasted most of the money they'd make by paying for their training camp, sparring partners, coaches, etc.


So it is not like paradise for them.