Can the average guy punch better than Punk with no training?

[tenniswhiz]

As a BJJ guy it was frustrating to me that he didn’t even try to break Jackson’s posture. He didn’t underhook bodylock and try to drag him down once.
On top of that he went for two triangles while Jackson was rigidly postured up.

And Jackson didn’t pass guard while holding posture!

So let’s not act like it was only his striking. His grappling fundamentals just were as bad.

 

[Super Grover]

CM Punk is what you get when you give the avg guy 4 years of MMA training.

It almost astonishing how bad he is given the training and resources he has. He has almost zero athletic ability.

 

[Godzilla3232]

In a typical bar fight there's not much to think about, you just square up and throw with all of your power. You don't know any better.

In an MMA match there's a lot of training and proper technique to cycle through in the moment; and the threat of kicks, TD's, feints and other crazy shit making you tentative. You can easily get lost in your own head and end up throwing awkward, non-committal strikes because you're at information overload trying to piece together what's safe to throw, what your opponents gonna do, how much energy to conserve, etc.

 

[98bird]

He jabs with his rear, dominant arm? Interesting.

Muhammad Ali did this.

There are more than 1 way to throw a rear cross. What CM threw was fine for someone of his level.

 

[kevinramsdell]

Punk slaughters 90% of sherbros

 

[98bird]

As a BJJ guy it was frustrating to me that he didn’t even try to break Jackson’s posture. He didn’t underhook bodylock and try to drag him down once.
On top of that he went for two triangles while Jackson was rigidly postured up.

And Jackson didn’t pass guard while holding posture!

So let’s not act like it was only his striking. His grappling fundamentals just were as bad.

What belt are you in BJJ?

 

[chiefwiggum]

MAybe a few decades ago. You guys now are huge sensitive pussies. So I really doubt it

 

[CPH]

You're somewhat right TS. The only thing I don't entirely agree with is 'the average' being a decent athlete.

There is definitely a good percentage of random guys who can throw a punch, but in my experience, the average guy is as shitty athletically as Punk. Think back to your primary, high school class - there were maybe 3-5 guys per class who were good athletes.

 

[Beta Wolf]

Are you kidding me?

 

[fractal]

Punk reminds me of my friend. Works out regularly, very fit, big guy, but not an athletic bone in his body. Guy couldn't even get his form right on the rowing machine lol.

 

[Gunny]

My take is that it’s easy to throw a punch with better mechanics than those we saw Saturday night but it’s another thing to do so while moving at a target who, in turn, is also moving in an attempt to evade. If you haven’t internalized every defensive movement pattern through many many years of repetition then your choices are: throw weak arm punches or embarrassingly whiff on every swing all night long.

 

[Beta Wolf]

You’re just mad because “white knigts” get more pussy

Actually, they've done studies and it turns out that men considered more attractive by women also have worse opinions of and worse attitudes toward women. We don't know the exact correlation - do men who disrespect women get more female attention, or do men who get female attention disrespect women more?

It's a somewhat concerning statistic, although not at all surprising for most people, I'm sure.

 

[CPH]

Punk is terrible athlete. Was super awkward and stiff as a board.

I dont know that he could ever be a good fighter.

What was hilarious was Rogan opening up his commentary with 'unlike Brock, Punk had no martial arts background prior to getting into MMA he is just a great athlete' ..then literally a couple of minutes later, as his claim becomes completely untenable, he admits that Punk is 'not a great athlete'. Fucking Rogan...

 

[98bird]

CM Punk is what you get when you give the avg guy 4 years of MMA training.

It almost astonishing how bad he is given the training and resources he has. He has almost zero athletic ability.

More like 1.5 years and he did very well vs. someone who's like 10x better.

You take someone with Mike Jackson's skills & experience and put him in with MOST anyone who's trained 1.5 years (even 2) from any gym and he'll make them look like shit and destroy them just like he did to CM.

Here's Mike Jackson, in what looked like his 1st Ammy Boxing match vs. some kid with about 1 year of training. The kid is much younger and probably stronger. This kid would beat 99% of everyone in here who's not trained. Yet look at what Jackson did to him. Jackson clowned his ass. This was in 2013, and he was already at this level; so he's improved by 5+ years for UFC 225 vs. CM's 1.5 years from near zero training. And Jackson was a serious athlete during this 1st fight at 6'2" 160 lbs, that's like near perfect weight/height, attainable ratio....making me think, this wasn't his 1st fight.

 

[Nurse Joy]

Actually, they've done studies and it turns out that men considered more attractive by women also have worse opinions of and worse attitudes toward women. We don't know the exact correlation - do men who disrespect women get more female attention, or do men who get female attention disrespect women more?

It's a somewhat concerning statistic, although not at all surprising for most people, I'm sure.

Well...for women who actually want to let a man live in their house and get married and stuff I’m sure this is a concern.

For those of us who just want a decent conversation, some nice abs and an occasional night out it matters little .

 

[Super Grover]

More like 1.5 years

Huh?

He signed with the UFC in December of 2014 and fought in 2016. Are you saying he signed with the UFC and did no training for 2ish years, even fighting once in that time? How do you arrive at 1.5 years of training?

 

[scottmushroom]

I think there are people that give the average guy's ability to throw a punch way too much credit here. The amount of people I have seen make a fist with their thumb inside, lunging forward, punching from their elbow (not even their shoulder), amongst other things is astounding.

I also greatly enjoy the replies of "I've hit a bag before and I punch better". Hitting a bag or mitts is a different animal than sparring, which is itself a different animal to an actual fight in front of a crowd.

Final disclaimer: CM Punk is not a UFC level fighter, he probably isnt even an entry level pro caliber fighter. But to say that a guy with no training can punch better is moronic.

 

[98bird]

Huh?

He signed with the UFC in December of 2014 and fought in 2016. Are you saying he signed with the UFC and did no training for 2ish years, even fighting once in that time? How do you arrive at 1.5 years of training?

He started training "UFC" under Roufus on Jan 2015. Oct 2015 he had shoulder injuries = 2-3 months off?

Feb 2016, he had a herniated disk and had surgery = 3-6 months off. Fought Gall, Sept 2016. Then probably took time off the rest of the year. Then trained again in 2017.

Maybe I'm off saying 1.5 years. More like 2 years, maybe 2.5. Remember, he's an old ass 39 year old. All those injuries and surgery would take much longer to heal and be back to the grind of MMA, unlike how fast a 20 year old kid can heal up.

 

[empsim]

not sure about the average guy, but the average drunk idiot who gets into barfights does punch better

 

[Super Grover]

He started training "UFC" under Roufus on Jan 2015. Oct 2015 he had shoulder injuries = 2-3 months off?

Feb 2016, he had a herniated disk and had surgery = 3-6 months off. Fought Gall, Sept 2016. Then probably took time off the rest of the year. Then trained again in 2017.

Maybe I'm off saying 1.5 years. More like 2 years, maybe 2.5. Remember, he's an old ass 39 year old. All those injuries and surgery would take much longer to heal and be back to the grind of MMA, unlike how fast a 20 year old kid can heal up.

So really you are just being pedantic.

The point is the same. He has trained for a significant amount of time at a high level gym and still looks utterly terrible.

 

[DanMMAleague]

Punk slaughters 99% of sherbros

Fixed.