Do you really believe that Valentina isn't going to learn from this?

[Judoka1532]

You're right and the "default" button, but that is such a hardwired thing that it's extremely hard to stop doing.
You work hard enough to create muscle memory so that in the moments of the fight you react without thinking.
It takes thousands of hours to create that.

Like you said she has had such great success as of late with the clinch, takedown and beat their faces in.
Talia has great athletic abilities but she didn't do much on top except get punched and elbowed a lot.

When she had Valentina's back she was in her best position but still couldn't create much damage.
Overall it was a good showing for Talia, and she'll be fine at the end of the day.

Glover has that same thing happening with him, where the success of a way of fighting can be a detrimental thing to the progress of the fight.

Dan Henderson fell in love with his KO power and that got in his way a few times.
Rampage too had that problem.

When you have a few tolls in your garage that you use all the time, it becomes more difficult to access the other tools when you need them the most.
You can normally fix a flat tire with a lug wrench but sometimes a pipe wrench is need for one reason or another.

It's the same with fighting in my eyes.

It's frustrating as a fan but we're not standing on the other side of the cage from our favorite fighters opponent sir.
If we see it while watching then we have to believe they will see it when they watch it.

You are right. It's a hell of a lot easier for us to have a bird's eye view and not feel the pressure the fighters are under, and all the things that Come with it. Also, really good examples above.

In the examples of glover and shev, I've seen many other fighters do that. I think it's probably something that could sometimes go overlooked from the fighters perspective. It's kinda of like us sitting in a waiting room checking our phone with out even really knowing we are doing it. Or when we are driving down the road and 5 min go by and we realize we don't even recall what or who we've passed, like we have been on auto-pilot. And that's prob because we drive multiple hours a week, similar to how ufc fighters train hours on end.

And after watching that card, it's evident to me that there is something larger at play that results in fighters continuing down a path they prob shouldn't take. I know they are not dumb, and I know they know a lot more about fighting than I do.

I think an avenue for coaches to exploit is how to make fighters more adaptable in certain situations. I would guess that probably the training aspect and routines is where you make those changes.

Anyways... just my perspective on this. Something that I thought out an hour after the fights while trying to go to sleep.

 

[Flboycanscrap2]

She has been so dominant in the clinch that she took it for granted. Now she knows she can be beat or reversed there so she has to remove the instinct to crash the distance off her strikes for a throw.

I think she'll get back to what she does best, which is dominating the striking. Only problem is that she has another dominant striker on the horizon in Manon waiting for her.

 

[HHJ]

Val is always serious. That’s her thing. She just sounded like an idiot in the post fight interview and presser. It’s a pretty clear personality trait, but I forgot you 30-25 a poster of Valentina each night. My bad.

Doesn't everyone?

 

[SaltedVinegarfootstomps]

Doesn't everyone?

We all need our outlets! The real question is whether your rocking current Val, or 1950s mom-cut kickboxing Val. Or both!

 

[HHJ]

We all need our outlets! The real question is whether your rocking current Val, or 1950s mom-cut kickboxing Val. Or both!

All Val's incarnations have me rising to the occasion!

 

[StonedLemur]

You are right. It's a hell of a lot easier for us to have a bird's eye view and not feel the pressure the fighters are under, and all the things that Come with it. Also, really good examples above.

In the examples of glover and shev, I've seen many other fighters do that. I think it's probably something that could sometimes go overlooked from the fighters perspective. It's kinda of like us sitting in a waiting room checking our phone with out even really knowing we are doing it. Or when we are driving down the road and 5 min go by and we realize we don't even recall what or who we've passed, like we have been on auto-pilot. And that's prob because we drive multiple hours a week, similar to how ufc fighters train hours on end.

And after watching that card, it's evident to me that there is something larger at play that results in fighters continuing down a path they prob shouldn't take. I know they are not dumb, and I know they know a lot more about fighting than I do.

I think an avenue for coaches to exploit is how to make fighters more adaptable in certain situations. I would guess that probably the training aspect and routines is where you make those changes.

Anyways... just my perspective on this. Something that I thought out an hour after the fights while trying to go to sleep.

Here's a perfect example, I used to work in an office for 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week, and I haven't worked there in quite a few years now, and when my phone rings I still answer it sometimes like "Good afternoon can I help you" lol.

We also have the benefit of hindsight which a fighter has too, but they have to go back and physically change it, and just have to say it...which of course a lot easier.

You and I just had a sensible back and forth on Sherdog sir...we should be proud lol.

 

[GrantB13]

I'd be more inclined to say no just because she's seasoned and she's already developed most of the skills she will ever have. Not impossible but you don't see fighters who have been around for a long time develop drastically that often.

 

[StonedLemur]

I'd be more inclined to say no just because she's seasoned and she's already developed most of the skills she will ever have. Not impossible but you don't see fighters who have been around for a long time develop drastically that often.

She's done it once already sir.

 

[StonedLemur]

After the first failed grappling transition between her and santos, she should have avoided clinching all together.

I don't know man at 34 years old and after an extensive combat career, I would imagine she has already reached her peak. Maybe Shev can practice her take down defense or escapes/ transitions from the bottom. But how useful will this be? When you are facing an opponent with a superior skill set, the last thing you want to do is fight them at their strengths. Shev was walking into these exchanges with open arms like she was getting the better of Santos

You're right and I think that's why she'll work to avoid those exchanges sir.

 

[StonedLemur]

She lost her fights to Nunes and Nunes is primarily just a puncher. Holm isn't a KO threat with her hands. Santos is more complete and bigger striking threat power wise using hands and feet. That's why Valentina wasn't trying to pressure or lead, she just wanted to plant her feet, use zero footwork, and just try to counter Santos coming in. When Santos tries to pressure and lead with strikes she ducked under and clinched right away. Her game plan was to not strike with Santos and try to outgrapple her, but Santos was the stronger and better grappler. That's why even though Santos had one eye Valentina wasn't really engaging and she was still trying to grapple her instead. She had it in her mind not to really strike with Santos for the fight and even though Santos was compromised she still didn't really try and engage like she should've.

Santos will always be a tough fight for her because of these reasons. If Santos gets better it'll be even worse for the rematch. I don't think Valentina can stop her with strikes because she was unable to even though Santos had one eye and Valentina wasn't really trying to go for a finish even though she was compromised. Valentina would need to get her grappling/clinching strength stronger than Santos and get her grappling to a higher level than Santos. Currently Santos is better and Valentina was only able to pull ahead due to the eye injury. There's not many in her division with the grappling ability of Santos, so Valentina will be able to out grapple most in the division, just not Santos.

What I believe she'll do is work on staying out of those exchanges and staying at distance which is where she's best in my mind sir.

 

[Spitfire3000]

Yeah, well I never seen a 52 year old man move like that sir.

Sir, Bobby Riggs at the age of 55 easily beat arguably the greatest female tennis champion ever in Margaret Court when she was 30 (that same year she won 3/4 of the grand slam) and he had been completely retired for over a decade. He only lost to Billie Jean King because he was a degenerate gambler that threw the match to pay off mob debt, sir.

Jaromir Jagr was still playing in the NHL at age 48.

Dominique Wilkins is still dunking in his 60s.

Just a few examples, sir.

 

[StonedLemur]

Sir, Bobby Riggs at the age of 55 easily beat arguably the greatest female tennis champion ever in Margaret Court when she was 30 (that same year she won 3/4 of the grand slam) and he had been completely retired for over a decade. He only lost to Billie Jean King because he was a degenerate gambler that threw the match to pay off mob debt, sir.

Jaromir Jagr was still playing in the NHL at age 48.

Dominique Wilkins is still dunking in his 60s.

Just a few examples, sir.

Wilkins is fuckin 6'7", if he couldn't dunk I'd be concerned....even at 60.

Jagr might have played until 48 but I highly doubt he was playing many minutes. He's almost definitely on TRT as well.

Bobby Riggs wasn't getting punched in the face that I know of either, and if that was the case I'd still pick Billie Jean to kick his ass lol.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

What I believe she'll do is work on staying out of those exchanges and staying at distance which is where she's best in my mind sir.

That was her strategy already. That's why she wasn't hoping around or trying to lead and pressure until Santos got injured. Her whole strategy was to just counter and back pedal then clinch and go for takedowns or press up against the cage if Santos closes distance. Santos isn't slow and she was able to close the distance on Valentina many times. Valentina will need to really work on her footwork and movement if she wants to use a similar strategy again in her next fight with her. Valentina's footwork wasn't really fast enough to maintain a certain distance from Santos whenever Santos did engage.

 

[StonedLemur]

That was her strategy already. That's why she wasn't hoping around or trying to lead and pressure until Santos got injured. Her whole strategy was to just counter and back pedal then clinch and go for takedowns or press up against the cage if Santos closes distance. Santos isn't slow and she was able to close the distance on Valentina many times. Valentina will need to really work on her footwork and movement if she wants to use a similar strategy again in her next fight with her. Valentina's footwork wasn't really fast enough to maintain a certain distance from Santos whenever Santos did engage.

Can't counter if your opponent isn't throwing anything sir.
When she did start bouncing Santos had no answer.

I think Val would beat her more decisively in a rematch.

 

[RicardinhoPT]

She doesn't make the same mistakes twice.
When she lost against Amanda the first time she knew it was her grappling that failed her...she grew by leaps and bounds immediately after that.

She had a tough fight yesterday, but don't think in your hateful little hearts that she isn't going to learn, grow and get better from this experience.

~fin

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Can't counter if your opponent isn't throwing anything sir.
When she did start bouncing Santos had no answer.

I think Val would beat her more decisively in a rematch.

She started bouncing only after Santos was compromised when she only had one eye in the fight. Even then she wasn't aggressive enough because she was still weary of Santos striking threat. She should've been trying to finish but she was still trying to just pick shots and not really engaging like she should've been with a compromised fighter. That right there says a lot.

Also the height difference makes it harder for her to kick her head and Valentina isn't a knockout artist with her hands, it's with her kicks. If Santos isn't dipping her head into the kick, Valentina is not really going to land it clean enough or hard enough to knock her out. This is why Santos will always be a bad match up for her, even worse for Valentina if Santos gets even better after this fight.

 

[CPH]

Val has been relying on excessive clinch fighting since her thai days. It's always been one of her strong suits.

It's true that throws have always been her go-to for scoring and breaking the opponent's flow. Seeing her try to elbow and push off out of the clinch as she did lagter in the fight with Santos was pretty unusual.

 

[CPH]

She started bouncing only after Santos was compromised when she only had one eye in the fight. Even then she wasn't aggressive enough because she was still weary of Santos striking threat. She should've been trying to finish but she was still trying to just pick shots and not really engaging like she should've been with a compromised fighter. That right there says a lot.

Val was more worried about overcommitting and getting taken down than she was with Santos' power at that point. It seemed pretty obvious to me that Taila wasn't just hurt but also slower to react and not having the same pop with her hands.

 

[StonedLemur]

She started bouncing only after Santos was compromised when she only had one eye in the fight. Even then she wasn't aggressive enough because she was still weary of Santos striking threat. She should've been trying to finish but she was still trying to just pick shots and not really engaging like she should've been with a compromised fighter. That right there says a lot.

Also the height difference makes it harder for her to kick her head and Valentina isn't a knockout artist with her hands, it's with her kicks. If Santos isn't dipping her head into the kick, Valentina is not really going to land it clean enough or hard enough to knock her out. This is why Santos will always be a bad match up for her, even worse for Valentina if Santos gets even better after this fight.

I guess we'll find out when they fight again sir, because you know Dana is gonna make that fight.

 

[humdizzle]

i dont think there is much to learn other than refusing to cut weight at the highest levels will result in fighting girls are going to be physically bigger and stronger.

its unfortunate but those are the rules. Val is a natural 125er and Santos is a natural 135er that cuts alot.