Gracie Combatives - What the hell?

[johnkreese]

Warm ups, drill three or four random techniques a few times and roll. Sound familiar?

No, it doesn't. More like 1 technique with 2, maybe 3 variations.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Warm ups, drill three or four random techniques a few times and roll. Sound familiar?

Nope.

Technique instruction usually consists of 1 takedown, and then a sequence of moves and counters. We drill both sides, many repititions, and the instructor definitely has enough time to go around and watch everyone, give out pointers, and answer questions. Then it's positional/situational rolling for a few rounds. Then free rolling.

I have trained at three different academies in the last 5 yrs and my experiences have been pretty consistent.

 

[InvertedBJJ]

Now we get to own in two different threads.

I'm going to presume this is to me??

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Well whats your school name. Honestly unless your an instructor idk how you do it that much. I have never seen a school that offers BJJ 3 times a day 2 hour classes everyday. If your school does than then your at an awesome school, but thats not the cases with most schools. Yes I do work my butt off and i will not be discredited for that my man.

Ok I dont understand why this keeps coming up no offense to you man. I have stated now for probably the 5th time. No I do not roll, but I do spar every single day i train and before we started sparring we did fight simulation. My partner throws punches, kicks, whatever he wants to do. He tries to knock me out plain and simple. My job is to just use my jiu jitsu and submit him. We start out standing up to simulate a real fight for a little while. Then we do situational saying he mounted me i have to fight him off and submit him, then we do guard, and then side gaurd. So no i do not roll, but i simulate a fight as much as possible we try to knock each others heads off when we do this. Thats the only way you can be prepared for a fight against someone on the street. I believe that is better than rolling when it comes to a street fight situation. When you roll no punches are being thrown and your rolling against someone with jiu jitsu knowledge. In a street fight the chances of you coming across a jiu jitsu guy are pretty unlikly. Thats why your blue belts and gracie blue belts are different.

Get this we dont need to roll for the gracie jiu jitsu blue belt because its only purpose is to show you how to protect yourselves on the street, not how to submit another jiu jitsu man in a tournament. We start rolling once you get above blue belt. Purple belt course is designed if you came across a jiu jitsu man in the street you would know how to counter the moves and win.

yeah yeah right, the same bs story of TMAs, we train for specific situations, for self defense, you train for tournamets la la la, all those stand up drills, you are a buch of BS, msucle reflex my ass, they do not exist in real life, in real life, you learn how to take a punch, and how to throw a punch, other ways, take the guy to the ground and you your shit, but all those ridiculous drills Im seein in the GC are just freaking useless... Wanna know how to fight? take MMA leasons... thats it. Im sorry my friend, but drills DO NOT FREAKING WORK! plain and simple.

And rolling>>pretending to fight all the time.

 

[rnaviaux]

Lets see. I've read the term "online training" a few times. I have no idea what that is. All the training I do is with another person (preferably alive).

Kreese says GJJfighter has bought "shitty videos". What are these shitty videos he has purchased?

And now the last post from BJJ_Rage says drilling doesn't work. Very odd considering my two BJJ instructors have said the exact opposite. (JJ Machado and Pedro Sauer)

Here is a slightly different question/consideration to ponder. If two guys did have to learn from scratch with no black belt to coach them every step of the way what would be the vital elements needed in their materials in order to learn the subject matter?

Can it be done? Or are they out of luck?

By putting together a systematic approach that standardizes a way to learn the various elements of BJJ the GA has made a significant contribution to our culture at large. Kid Peligro has also done this with all his wonderful books on the subject.

I dare say one could drop these materials into some small town and in a couple decades you would have great practitioners of BJJ.

It's a truism that if we had to learn everything by trial and error we would all die stupid. In the 90s there were very little materials available on BJJ. Now there is a virtual encyclopedia of print and video on the subject. I think it is safe to say if we lost all our advanced belts in some terrible 2012 disaster we wouldn't be doomed to mediocrity. In fact it would probably take a lot less time than it took to build the Gracie dynasty to get back to a very high level.

Still amused by the 6 hours of training a day. I loved the Baco De Los Padres explanation. Back when I first started I was damn lucky to get in 6 hours a week. Of course eating and having a roof over my head had to take first priority and since I didn't have access to the aforementioned bank I was stuck working.

14 years later things haven't changed much. Well there is one difference. People can argue on the net now with impunity.

 

[Estebanantonio]

What is the argument now that the master cycle is comming out since there is "rolling" with resistance? Oh yeah there is still video evaluations and no "skilled professor" giving constant taylored feed back. I will still be intrested to see how people who earn their purple belts thru the GU do in tournaments.

 

[johnkreese]

Kreese says GJJfighter has bought "shitty videos". What are these shitty videos he has purchased?

Do I really have to answer that? In the context of learning from Helio Soneca compared to these videos, lets be real, learning from Helio would be infinitely better.

 

[InvertedBJJ]

Lets see. I've read the term "online training" a few times. I have no idea what that is. All the training I do is with another person (preferably alive).

Kreese says GJJfighter has bought "shitty videos". What are these shitty videos he has purchased?

And now the last post from BJJ_Rage says drilling doesn't work. Very odd considering my two BJJ instructors have said the exact opposite. (JJ Machado and Pedro Sauer)

Here is a slightly different question/consideration to ponder. If two guys did have to learn from scratch with no black belt to coach them every step of the way what would be the vital elements needed in their materials in order to learn the subject matter?

Can it be done? Or are they out of luck?

By putting together a systematic approach that standardizes a way to learn the various elements of BJJ the GA has made a significant contribution to our culture at large. Kid Peligro has also done this with all his wonderful books on the subject.

I dare say one could drop these materials into some small town and in a couple decades you would have great practitioners of BJJ.

It's a truism that if we had to learn everything by trial and error we would all die stupid. In the 90s there were very little materials available on BJJ. Now there is a virtual encyclopedia of print and video on the subject. I think it is safe to say if we lost all our advanced belts in some terrible 2012 disaster we wouldn't be doomed to mediocrity. In fact it would probably take a lot less time than it took to build the Gracie dynasty to get back to a very high level.

Still amused by the 6 hours of training a day. I loved the Baco De Los Padres explanation. Back when I first started I was damn lucky to get in 6 hours a week. Of course eating and having a roof over my head had to take first priority and since I didn't have access to the aforementioned bank I was stuck working.

14 years later things haven't changed much. Well there is one difference. People can argue on the net now with impunity.

Please go stick you hands in a garbage disposal after typing that.

 

[johnkreese]

What is the argument now that the master cycle is comming out since there is "rolling" with resistance? Oh yeah there is still video evaluations and no "skilled professor" giving constant taylored feed back. I will still be intrested to see how people who earn their purple belts thru the GU do in tournaments.

And, if you guys make a mistake, and do the technique wrong, you'll be stuck tryign to break a bunch of bad habits...where as, I'll have my critique on the first day I do the technique to make sure I do it right... a GC guy will more than likey develop bad habits from drilling the technique wrong for months before testing.

 

[Estebanantonio]

And, if you guys make a mistake, and do the technique wrong, you'll be stuck tryign to break a bunch of bad habits...where as, I'll have my critique on the first day I do the technique to make sure I do it right... a GC guy will more than likey develop bad habits from drilling the technique wrong for months before testing.

Funny thing is over the years I have had to correct techniques that I was taught wrong in the first place:icon_conf But you know my training partners and I have been training jiu-jitsu for years so we are pretty good at testing each others technique.

 

[CrazyJHL]

Ok, since people are talking about class schedules for schools...I thought I'd throw mine out there. MWF BJJ is at 6am-7am, 9:30am-11am, and 5:30pm-7pm for adults. TTh Subwrestling at 9:30am-11am, 5:30pm-7pm.

I do indeed own the combatives box set, and I use it too supplement my training, seeing how I can only make class once a week generally. It's nice for when I have the time, and friends around, to train. Personally I like the club atmosphere, but at the fight club we train for both defense and competition, so I don't have some of the issues that people in the thread do.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

Lets see. I've read the term "online training" a few times. I have no idea what that is. All the training I do is with another person (preferably alive).

Not sure why people are referring to a DVD program with correspondence evaluations as "online training," but that's not what I have been calling it. The problem is not the techniques, they are perfectly fine. The problem is not the fact that a DVD series was released. The problem is that they are offering rank over correspondence, and are letting people learn these things outside of an academy.

Kreese says GJJfighter has bought "shitty videos". What are these shitty videos he has purchased?

I assume here he is referring to the DVDs.

And now the last post from BJJ_Rage says drilling doesn't work. Very odd considering my two BJJ instructors have said the exact opposite. (JJ Machado and Pedro Sauer)

I don't necessarily agree with what BJJ Rage stated up there. Drilling is pretty important. So is free rolling/free sparring, which for example - GJJ Fighter states he does with his training partner. But again, that's really not the issue here. Problem is that when you do GC w/o going to an academy, you are drilling and sparring without an instructor to supervise, critique, and answer questions. And you limit yourself in training partners and having to deal with different people's games, sizes, etc.

Here is a slightly different question/consideration to ponder. If two guys did have to learn from scratch with no black belt to coach them every step of the way what would be the vital elements needed in their materials in order to learn the subject matter?

Can it be done? Or are they out of luck?

You answered this with your 2012 disaster hypothetical.

By putting together a systematic approach that standardizes a way to learn the various elements of BJJ the GA has made a significant contribution to our culture at large. Kid Peligro has also done this with all his wonderful books on the subject.

That's perfectly fine. I think the GC Blue belt curriculum is a nice introductory set, just like Serras DVDs or any other DVDs or books out there. The difference is that Kid Peligro isn't handing out rank and encouraging students to learn on their own in the comfort of their own garage. If you went and asked Kid Peligro if a student should pick up his book, drill the moves in it with another newbie in a garage, then film it and send it to him for a blue belt test, what do you think he'd say?

I dare say one could drop these materials into some small town and in a couple decades you would have great practitioners of BJJ.

I think it would take a very long time, this goes back to your 2012 disaster hypothetical.

It's a truism that if we had to learn everything by trial and error we would all die stupid. In the 90s there were very little materials available on BJJ. Now there is a virtual encyclopedia of print and video on the subject. I think it is safe to say if we lost all our advanced belts in some terrible 2012 disaster we wouldn't be doomed to mediocrity. In fact it would probably take a lot less time than it took to build the Gracie dynasty to get back to a very high level.

This, while probably true, is not a good reason to allow students to learn self defense skills on their own through a "rebuilding" learning process. It is irresponsible IMO, when they can go to actual schools with instructors and not be left to the folly of their own imaginations. Even if such a "rebuilding" process would yield the same results, it would take much more time, and that would be in contradiction to the claim "The Fastest Way to Street Readiness. Guaranteed."

Still amused by the 6 hours of training a day. I loved the Baco De Los Padres explanation. Back when I first started I was damn lucky to get in 6 hours a week. Of course eating and having a roof over my head had to take first priority and since I didn't have access to the aforementioned bank I was stuck working.

I am amused by it too. Thats 30 hours a week, like a part time job. Unless it IS your part time job, you are probably not training 6 hrs a day...

 

[johnkreese]

Funny thing is over the years I have had to correct techniques that I was taught wrong in the first place:icon_conf But you know my training partners and I have been training jiu-jitsu for years so we are pretty good at testing each others technique.

Then maybe it was your school? 90 percent of the time, the technique isn't going to work during live rolling if you're messing it up. The other 10 percent of the time, is when you use strength to compensate for you lack of technique, and you muscle out of things. Bad habits that are formed are the mistakes higher belts look to prey on. It's those bad habits, that will lead to mistakes, which will cause you to be submitted or dominated.

 

[GJJ fighter]

Helio Soneca is not a 3 time world champion. He was very good back in the day before he got injured and he won a lot of big events, but he only won the Worlds once. The first year they had it IIRC. I think he beat Megaton in the finals.

Brandon was scheduled to fight a friend of mine a few months back, but got injured. I think he broke his nose in training and had to drop out. It's funny you brought him up because my buddy actually called me in to mimic his game and help him train for it. Brandon is undoubtedly a tough guy with a lot of experience, but he doesn't have the best competition record if that's what you mean by credentials. I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy; he's got a lot of experience, he's always game to fight, and I'm sure he's a great instructor. I just wasn't sure what direction you were going with this.


Edit-

It would only do you good. I guess you were going a different direction than i anticipated.

haha that is pretty funny. I know it said hes a pro fighter now. Yeah i may head over there and see how it goes.

This is what the place looks like it looks pretty nice.

YouTube - Wolf Clan Combat Sports Knoxville

 

[InvertedBJJ]

Go there and tell us what you think and what training was like.

 

[Estebanantonio]

Then maybe it was your school? 90 percent of the time, the technique isn't going to work during live rolling if you're messing it up. The other 10 percent of the time, is when you use strength to compensate for you lack of technique, and you muscle out of things. Bad habits that are formed are the mistakes higher belts look to prey on. It's those bad habits, that will lead to mistakes, which will cause you to be submitted or dominated.

Yeah, the point is while in some areas there are a lot of credible bjj schools I guess. For me for example the closest black belt is 90 mile away. But that hasn't stopped me from learning and improving my game.

I took some time away from the local club wich isn't run by a black belt. I trained with other people (before we discovered the combatives) when I went beck to the club I had improved at a faster rate than the guy's that were training there, Atleast the ones I rolled with. So my personal experience has shown me that I am capable of learning and improving with out having a "skilled proffesor" over looking my training.

The funny thing is I have seen so called "legit schools" run by guy's with the same or less experience than me. Oh and when I last competed I placed 3rd AT naga in my division to me that was a good measure of where I am for the amount of time I have been training. When I am done training the Combatives I plan to turn my focus back to sport and win my division in my next tournament.

 

[bjjaz]

Gotta love this thread.

 

[Mrjuanism]

LOL i meant TWO times a day two hour clases.( imagine 30 hours a week shit at that rate ill get my black before my bachelors)

I know many might not be able to put in as many hours as me and a couple of my friends due to work/ school, but you guys are blowing it out of proportion and acting as if it is unheard of.

I know a lot of people that train twice a day, and it is really not that rare.

and no i wish my parents would pay for everything, i currently live in a room and pay all my bills so no.

 

[johnkreese]

I sometimes train twice a day.

 

[Limit]

This was only a matter of time.. Just like how Karate took off in the 80's with a bunch of shitty schools. Now BJJ will have as many horrible/mcdojo schools as Karate did/still has.