Grand Jury report on Catholic Church sex abuse in Pennsylvania

[panamaican]

I don't think you're right here and, frankly, I think it's pretty naive to just think that the clergy attracts "sick fucks" to such a wildly disproportionate degree. For that level of prevalence, you'd almost have to think that young men in their teenage years or early adulthood were actively seeking out the clergy, which is not in itself a very glamorous life, for the access to children. And that just doesn't make sense, since they could do the same thing in other, less demanding occupations.

Yes, I think allowing these men to have sex lives would divert away much of their sexual malfeasance within the scope of their duties. All of it? Of course not. But I would expect at least a 50% reduction.

First, I never said that they were attracted to the clergy in a disproportionate degree. In my opinion, there are a handful of professions that attract these people in greater degrees than others. I have no data saying that the church is greater or lesser than the others. But they will get more scrutiny because of what they claim to stand for and for their history of protecting prior bad actors.

Additionally, there's sufficient data that says that victims of abuse frequently grow up to become abusers themselves. When you take that information coupled with the church's history of simply moving offenders to new parishes instead of kicking them out of the church altogether then you have a problem. Abusers creating victims and potential future abusers coupled with an environment that actually allows them to harm a greater number of kids across a broader spectrum of the country. Well, that will attract abusers.

And this particular sex crime is not something that people electively choose because they don't have the other option, it is intrinsic to them in some way. Allowing non-criminals to engage in non-criminal behavior is not going to change how the criminals think. Priests who want to have sexual relationships leave the church, they don't adopt deviant sexual acts as a substitute.

It's like asking "If we let the vegans eat meat, will the vegetarians stopping eating vegetables?"

 

[Leagon]

I disagree.

Look at Prison...You can't tell me a shitload of those guys were gay/rapist before prison.....They were in an environment, where a man's asshole is the closest thing to pussy...So what happens? You start doing gay shit.

Samething with religion.....I bet a lot of these guys were 100% committed to not having sex and bought into the religious dogma...What happened? You have pinned up emotions, etc and children are vulnerable enough that people won't believe them or they simply won't say anything, thus shit like this happened( They didn't start fucking full grown women/men, because that would be harder, and a huge risk for their job)..........I really doubt many of those dudes, were these sick fucks before religion and joined it because they saw it will be easy to fuck children...Im sure some did, but most didn't.


Sex is a human need IMO, atleast for most people...If you deny that, you start going down some crazy road IMO.

Not to make this a racial issue, but in black churches, lots of black pastors are known to fuck some of their female parishoners. I'm pretty sure lots of evangelical and small town America pastors fuck prostitutes.

In prison, there is literally no one else to fuck, and even then pretty much every male prisoner would rather fuck a female prison guard.

In the priesthood, a straight male has a choice between easily fucking a child or working a bit harder to hide that he's fucking a consenting woman. For any man who isn't a pedophile, that isn't a choice at all.

 

[panamaican]

I disagree.

Look at Prison...You can't tell me a shitload of those guys were gay/rapist before prison.....They were in an environment, where a man's asshole is the closest thing to pussy...So what happens? You start doing gay shit.

Samething with religion.....I bet a lot of these guys were 100% committed to not having sex and bought into the religious dogma...What happened? You have pinned up emotions, etc and children are vulnerable enough that people won't believe them or they simply won't say anything, thus shit like this happened( They didn't start fucking full grown women/men, because that would be harder, and a huge risk for their job)..........I really doubt many of those dudes, were these sick fucks before religion and joined it because they saw it will be easy to fuck children...Im sure some did, but most didn't.


Sex is a human need IMO, atleast for most people...If you deny that, you start going down some crazy road IMO.

Prison culture is our example of exemplary human behavior? And even convicted felons running around committing sex crimes on other adults still view child sex abusers as a special kind of fucked up.

 

[panamaican]

What if same sex relationships were allowed as well? If not, does the priesthood attract pedophiles due to abundance of children? Teachers don't have this problem.

Since when did teachers not have this problem?

 

[HereticBD]

I think some good old fashioned crime and punishment would do the trick. The biggest problem(in the grand scheme of things) are the ones with power covering up the scandal. Some in-house discipline needs to be enacted. The people covering it up may not be pedophiles, but the evil it takes to look the other way, is something they have to treat as bad as pedophilia itself. It starts from the top down. This is as big of a problem within the Christian community, as is radical extremism is within the Muslim community.

At the end of the day, if you don't want people thinking you're complicit, stop being fucking complicit. It's disgusting that this has continued to go on, and some PR apologies ain't gonna cut it. Enough is enough. Get your shit together already.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Hollyweird execs can have any women they want, but doesnt stop them from kiddie diddling.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Unlikely. These perverts aren't engaging in this crime because they're not allowed to pursue women. They're engaged in this crime because they're sick fucks. Would they stop becoming priests if other priests are allowed to fuck women? Not in my opinion.

I believe psychology has show thattheir addiction to sex with children drove the molester priests to become clergy.

They may believe that by choosing celibacy, they can suppress their urges. Just trying to shove their true nature deep inside and ignore it is a common way of dealing (or not dealing) with your mental illness in Catholicism. But that NEVER works. It's like a drug addict trying to quit cold turkey by just saying "I'm not gonna use" without ever addressing WHY they use.

Then eventually they are consumed by the addiction to molest kids, especially with such easy access and a means to hide it from people. Combine that with the power and influence the position gives them and it's a recipe for disaster.

The priests would have eventually molested kids even if they hadn't joined the priesthood. But they would have otherwise been caught or had fewer victims. Instead the church hides it and protects them.

 

[MikeMcMann]

I think most priests with pedophilic tendencies head to the church hoping that a life in the clergy and daily prayer will keep them from temptation and cure them of their sinful ways. I think their intent is good and they know they need help. Then you throw in a bunch of at risk kids the church works with and its a recipe for disaster.

 

[MikeMcMann]

The Church's big error is not in forcing all new clergy to confess this sinful desire the minute they enter the clergy. Make them confess in a way that makes them believe it is the path to avoiding the desire. Once they out themselves of having that predilection ship them off to the most remote and kid free area of the church in some foreign country mountain top.

 

[GOATER]

Not to make this a racial issue, but in black churches, lots of black pastors are known to fuck some of their female parishoners. I'm pretty sure lots of evangelical and small town America pastors fuck prostitutes.

In prison, there is literally no one else to fuck, and even then pretty much every male prisoner would rather fuck a female prison guard.

In the priesthood, a straight male has a choice between easily fucking a child or working a bit harder to hide that he's fucking a consenting woman. For any man who isn't a pedophile, that isn't a choice at all.

IDK alot about black churches or Evangelical but I assume they can fuck their wives while preaching, right? That to me is a huge difference.

These Catholic Priest, were pretty much indoctrinated to see sex as sin and to be abstinent for the rest of their lives.....Indoctrinated from a very, very early age, while their hormones were fucking raging.....So if you suppress that, I feel you will get fuck up thoughts and ideas like these....So I feel alot of these dudes were straight males once, then they become pedophiles thru this suppression of sex.

Not all Priest became pedophiles or gay tho....I seen stories where they fuck full grown women...Im sure there is more examples of these but, I feel they have probably kept hidden.

 

[GOATER]

Prison culture is our example of exemplary human behavior? And even convicted felons running around committing sex crimes on other adults still view child sex abusers as a special kind of fucked up.

Religion Dogma/Indoctrination is sort of a Prison....So yes Prison Culture has a lot of similarities to some young Catholic wanna be Priest, being restricted in the way he thinks, in the way his body feels, in the places he goes, etc...(Not sure if they are secluded from society while they are trying to become priest like prisoners are secluded from society)....either way, in those ways it's very similar.

Im not saying they aren't a special kind of fucked up.....The point is, I don't believe most of the guys were this fucked up before they became priest......I think the lack of sex is what pushed them into this crap, so what the OP said could've helped in some cases.

 

[all caps]

Requiring priests to remain celibate is the exact reason there is a Satanic pedophilia problem within the Catholic Church.

It means you aren't going to have any normal men who desire women try to become priests.

And it's unBiblical to require this of a pastor/priest.

This makes so much sense and I feel like a moron for it not even crossing my mind. I guess I have a hard time separating religions. They all seem the same to me. But obviously, they arent.

 

[Leagon]

IDK alot about black churches or Evangelical but I assume they can fuck their wives while preaching, right? That to me is a huge difference.

These Catholic Priest, were pretty much indoctrinated to see sex as sin and to be abstinent for the rest of their lives.....Indoctrinated from a very, very early age, while their hormones were fucking raging.....So if you suppress that, I feel you will get fuck up thoughts and ideas like these....So I feel alot of these dudes were straight males once, then they become pedophiles thru this suppression of sex.

Not all Priest became pedophiles or gay tho....I seen stories where they fuck full grown women...Im sure there is more examples of these but, I feel they have probably kept hidden.

You're giving these guys too much credit.

I was raised Catholic and to think of sex as a sin. Never once did I think about fucking a kid.

But if I was a pedophile and had no attraction to adults whatsoever, being a priest would've been a great way to avoid questions as an adult about when I'm getting married. It would also bring some prestige to my Catholic family.

For the majority of these cases, the dudes are just pedophiles that found a job where people wouldn't ask why they weren't having sex. For some of them, they are gay and have sex with older altar boys. For some, I suspect it's the same as why teachers have sex with students--power abuse and lack of self control.

NONE of these are about straight men who want pussy so bad that they rape a child.

 

[Ripskater]

This makes so much sense and I feel like a moron for it not even crossing my mind. I guess I have a hard time separating religions. They all seem the same to me. But obviously, they arent.

Thanks.

Every religion has had sex scandals. But the Catholic Church has this huge pedo problem. And you have to look at your requirements for priests.

As I've said, it's not even Biblical to require this.

 

[GOATER]

You're giving these guys too much credit.

I was raised Catholic and to think of sex as a sin. Never once did I think about fucking a kid.

But if I was a pedophile and had no attraction to adults whatsoever, being a priest would've been a great way to avoid questions as an adult about when I'm getting married. It would also bring some prestige to my Catholic family.

For the majority of these cases, the dudes are just pedophiles that found a job where people wouldn't ask why they weren't having sex. For some of them, they are gay and have sex with older altar boys. For some, I suspect it's the same as why teachers have sex with students--power abuse and lack of self control.

NONE of these are about straight men who want pussy so bad that they rape a child.

I was raised catholic too so I know the bullshit they say....and even though I wasn't super religious, I felt pressure....We can't compare that pressure to what they feel at all.

A lot of these guys were young, were full of hormones and were indoctrinated to be abstinent.....it's completely different than simply being raised catholic IMO.

When you add that pressure...You add the suppression of sex, which is a human need IMO...I think you start going down a very very bad path....Im not saying all priest did this, but I think it happen to many of the pedo ones.

Im sure some Pedos joined exactly for the reasons you said...they already had it planned and saw it as being easy as fuck to fuck kids and get away with it....But I don't think every one of them were like that when they first started...Perhaps the Pedo Priest gave the sexually frustrated Priests, advice to fuck kids and that's why we have this Pedo culture in the church?

 

[IDL]

I think you'd have to establish a disproportionate number of pedophiles compared to the general population of people who are around kids quite a bit (like schools, coaches, etc) before looking to things like celibacy as being a significant or even existent factor. Not sure if that link has been established. Maybe it has. Either way would be interesting to see a proper comparison to determine if there was actually an anomaly or if it is more a matter of how focused people are on priests.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Let’s not forget these guys are raging alcoholics like the American police.

 

[DIDM]

@Truth

I’ve always wondered why

I’ve heard recently the reason is land, if a priest had a wife and kids, they would inherit the land when he died, obviously not in modern times, but back when they made the rule

 

[panamaican]

Religion Dogma/Indoctrination is sort of a Prison....So yes Prison Culture has a lot of similarities to some young Catholic wanna be Priest, being restricted in the way he thinks, in the way his body feels, in the places he goes, etc...(Not sure if they are secluded from society while they are trying to become priest like prisoners are secluded from society)....either way, in those ways it's very similar.

Im not saying they aren't a special kind of fucked up.....The point is, I don't believe most of the guys were this fucked up before they became priest......I think the lack of sex is what pushed them into this crap, so what the OP said could've helped in some cases.

See, I disagree. I'm 100% certain they were this fucked up before they became priests, even if they hadn't acted on it yet. I think @Edison Carasio laid out the situation extremely well.

 

[Ripskater]

I think you'd have to establish a disproportionate number of pedophiles compared to the general population of people who are around kids quite a bit (like schools, coaches, etc) before looking to things like celibacy as being a significant or even existent factor. Not sure if that link has been established. Maybe it has. Either way would be interesting to see a proper comparison to determine if there was actually an anomaly or if it is more a matter of how focused people are on priests.

Just my opinion, but a celibacy requirement isn't gonna attract a normal guy to that occupation. Most normal guys look forward to someday experiencing sex with a woman.