International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Snubnoze707]

"In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea." — Netanyahu



Netanyahu invoking "river to the sea" rhetoric. All the Israel supporters claim that's code word for genocide. Still the case?

 

[Siver!]

In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea." — Netanyahu



Netanyahu invoking "river to the sea" rhetoric. All the Israel supporters claim that's code word for genocide. Still the case?

Yes, mate, but he will not be allowed.

Netanyahu publicly rejects US push for Palestinian state

The Israeli PM's rejection of Washington's efforts shows the growing disagreement between the two allies.

www.bbc.co.uk

We now need to start looking long term. Netanyahu is finished, he can only cling to power for as long as he's appeasing right wing monsters in Israel - once he accepts reality or their rampage is drawn to a halt (by themselves, or by the pressure put on them by the international community), he has to go. He cannot fulfill his one state solution, nor can he reoccupy Gaza.

This will upset a few people in here, but it's time they faced reality anyway.

 

[Siver!]

At last, the cracks are forming in US support for Netanyahu's lunatic government.

Netanyahu publicly rejects US push for Palestinian state

The Israeli PM's rejection of Washington's efforts shows the growing disagreement between the two allies.

www.bbc.co.uk

As Netanyahu makes it clear he wants only a one state solution, the US confirm there will be "no reoccupation of Gaza", per John Kirby.

Sense is prevailing at last.

Put the pressure on this piece of human garbage as he desperately clings to power.

This, I think, is a game changer. The USA will not stand for a single state solution.

Another key part of this article: Israeli polls now show that sane Israelis "want him to prioritise bringing the remaining hostages home over the potentially impossible aim of destroying Hamas."

Sense is prevailing.

 

[Anewt]

The really silly part of this conversation is that there is no rate of civilian death you would be willing to accept in any context based on your constant pearl clutching in every war thread.

You say Israelis should slow down, but in reality there's not amount of slowing down that you would be okay with unless there was literally zero collateral damage.

In reality, ending the war quickly is what's going to prevent long term loss of life. Constraining a military to your idealistic moralisms is likely to cost more lives on both sides.

Incorrect. Fuck me your arrogance is incredible you now apparently know my opinions before I do.

My pearl clutching? Whatever you wish to tell yourself

In reality waging the war like this will only cause more loss of life long term. There will be more retribution and retaliation. Just like there has for the past 100 years.

But sure thing mate. You'r opinions are the correct ones..
Undoubtedly

 

[Anewt]

Another key part of this article: Israeli polls now show that sane Israelis "want him to prioritise bringing the remaining hostages home over the potentially impossible aim of destroying Hamas."

Sense is prevailing.

The article of one of the released hostages actually touches on this . The woman and her family has hell of a fight in front of them. Hopefully there's a good result for them, they've gone through enough.


Aloni-Cunio explained that she feels it is her duty to share what she went through on October 7th and in the captivity of Hamas, for the sake of the other abductees. "Dealing with it, the interviews is like poking at a wound that won't heal.

It always takes a very heavy mental toll, but David told me to promise him in captivity that we were separated and that I would shout his cry, no matter how much it costs me in my health, I will do it until my last breath for him and for the other abductees because they can't actually do it. If there is no one to make their voice heard, we simply will not see them anymore."
I just want everyone to sit down for a moment and imagine if they were in our place," she cried, "how does it feel to know that you are going to sleep in a warm bed, and 136 people are sleeping in moldy tunnels, without food and without water. About your children, you can get up and give them a kiss and a hug every morning, and many parents, fathers, many people who are there and can't do the same. I want someone in this cabinet to wake up, unite, and stop dealing with nonsense."

Released hostage calls for unification of government to bring hostages home​

She also attacked the conduct of the political echelon in the campaign and the struggle for the release of the abductees: "Let them unite as this nation united to bring about our liberation and put an offer on the table, let them harness the world to this and bring the abductees home at any cost. It does not make sense that we sit and wait for proposals from a terrorist organization. It does not make sense, unacceptable.

"It's not that not enough is being done, I do want to stop the military action, soldiers are losing their lives and my heart goes out to their families, who are sacrificing their lives for our security. I'm talking about the side of the cabinet, that I feel that they don't even put a proposal on the table, but always wait for external initiatives."

 

[Siver!]

Incorrect. Fuck me your arrogance is incredible you now apparently know my opinions before I do.

My pearl clutching? Whatever you wish to tell yourself

In reality waging the war like this will only cause more loss of life long term. There will be more retribution and retaliation. Just like there has for the past 100 years.

But sure thing mate. You'r opinions are the correct ones..
Undoubtedly

There are always going to be extremists to whom deaths just aren't an issue as long as there's some narrative or other to cling to.

I don't think these guys are extremists, though, they're just trying to win a debate online rather than actually acknowledge the situation in Gaza for what it is.

We have to remember, they're not arguing for a reason. They aren't trying to make Israel safer, they aren't trying to minimize casualties, they aren't trying to fix the Middle East - they're just trying to win debates.

I think you and I have been fairly consistent throughout: we express our feelings on the tragic loss of life in Israel and now Gaza, and want it all to stop. We keep getting told that can't happen, but that is just a silly (and sick) fantasy backed by narratives plucked from here, there, and everywhere, including the dim and distant past.

They won't be allowed to genocide Gaza, period, though clearly the world should have acted far sooner. They won't be allowed to create a single state solution, the US has now made that abundantly clear. They won't be allowed to displace Gazans and reoccupy the Strip, or the West Bank, either.

If those were the excuses for killing so many people, they were wrong the entire time.

Israel can't "kill" Hamas, they will have to learn to work with Gazans and Palestinians regardless of what has happened because they're sister states and that's that.

 

[Siver!]

The article of one of the released hostages actually touches on this . The woman and her family has hell of a fight in front of them. Hopefully there's a good result for them, they've gone through enough.


Aloni-Cunio explained that she feels it is her duty to share what she went through on October 7th and in the captivity of Hamas, for the sake of the other abductees. "Dealing with it, the interviews is like poking at a wound that won't heal.

It always takes a very heavy mental toll, but David told me to promise him in captivity that we were separated and that I would shout his cry, no matter how much it costs me in my health, I will do it until my last breath for him and for the other abductees because they can't actually do it. If there is no one to make their voice heard, we simply will not see them anymore."
I just want everyone to sit down for a moment and imagine if they were in our place," she cried, "how does it feel to know that you are going to sleep in a warm bed, and 136 people are sleeping in moldy tunnels, without food and without water. About your children, you can get up and give them a kiss and a hug every morning, and many parents, fathers, many people who are there and can't do the same. I want someone in this cabinet to wake up, unite, and stop dealing with nonsense."

Released hostage calls for unification of government to bring hostages home​

She also attacked the conduct of the political echelon in the campaign and the struggle for the release of the abductees: "Let them unite as this nation united to bring about our liberation and put an offer on the table, let them harness the world to this and bring the abductees home at any cost. It does not make sense that we sit and wait for proposals from a terrorist organization. It does not make sense, unacceptable.

"It's not that not enough is being done, I do want to stop the military action, soldiers are losing their lives and my heart goes out to their families, who are sacrificing their lives for our security. I'm talking about the side of the cabinet, that I feel that they don't even put a proposal on the table, but always wait for external initiatives."

Predictably, most rational Israelis are sane and know right from wrong.

I wonder if the real anti-Semitic types are those who blindly assume Israelis are genocidal lunatics and the conduct of a few fringe madmen like Netanyahu are representative of Israeli people and therefore 'right'.

 

[Rational Poster]

Incorrect. Fuck me your arrogance is incredible you now apparently know my opinions before I do.

My pearl clutching? Whatever you wish to tell yourself

In reality waging the war like this will only cause more loss of life long term. There will be more retribution and retaliation. Just like there has for the past 100 years.

But sure thing mate. You'r opinions are the correct ones..
Undoubtedly

lmao you've been saying the silliest goofball shit for months in the Ukraine thread and nothing has changed here.

This idea you have that you can't combat terrorism because it creates more terrorism is just so incredibly weak and lazy. The complete destruction of Hamas as quickly as possible is what's going to potentially lead to long term peace. There is no reasoning with the current Palestinian leadership.

 

[Anewt]

There are always going to be extremists to whom deaths just aren't an issue as long as there's some narrative or other to cling to.

I don't think these guys are extremists, though, they're just trying to win a debate online rather than actually acknowledge the situation in Gaza for what it is.

We have to remember, they're not arguing for a reason. They aren't trying to make Israel safer, they aren't trying to minimize casualties, they aren't trying to fix the Middle East - they're just trying to win debates.

I think you and I have been fairly consistent throughout: we express our feelings on the tragic loss of life in Israel and now Gaza, and want it all to stop. We keep getting told that can't happen, but that is just a silly (and sick) fantasy backed by narratives plucked from here, there, and everywhere, including the dim and distant past.

They won't be allowed to genocide Gaza, period, though clearly the world should have acted far sooner. They won't be allowed to create a single state solution, the US has now made that abundantly clear. They won't be allowed to displace Gazans and reoccupy the Strip, or the West Bank, either.

If those were the excuses for killing so many people, they were wrong the entire time.

Israel can't "kill" Hamas, they will have to learn to work with Gazans and Palestinians regardless of what has happened because they're sister states and that's that.

I agree with most of that. But we're no different my friend.

They aren't trying to make Israel safer, they aren't trying to minimize casualties, they aren't trying to fix the Middle East - they're just trying to win debates.


I'm not trying to make Israel safer nor minimise casualties. We're all just online debating. ( there's a couple posters with legitimate skin innthe game tho ) I'm talking about what I would wish to see selfishly. It's why I laugh when people think theirs this great desire to " pearl clutching and oh you think you're a good person because you don't condone mass deaths of innocents. [ which is still really fucking strange to me ]

I don't there's anything more righteous or moral in our opinions. I believe ration poster is saying what he believes is the best way forward in his mind. I obviously completely disagree but I think that to him it is the solution that creates the least suffering. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that

Thats also the exact reason we lean towards slowing the mass destruction. [ less suffering ]

I don't think there's really much difference between people and teams , I hold the same beliefs for most " team " shit. [ politics/ religion / Race/ insert group identity ]

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[Anewt]

lmao you've been saying the silliest goofball shit for months in the Ukraine thread and nothing has changed here.

This idea you have that you can't combat terrorism because it creates more terrorism is just so incredibly weak and lazy. The complete destruction of Hamas as quickly as possible is what's going to potentially lead to long term peace. There is no reasoning with the current Palestinian leadership.

The assigning of a " you cant combat terrorism because it creates more terrorism " idea to me is the dumbest shit you've tried yet.


How many times are you just going to make up shit yet somehow constantly complain about me being disingenuous ?

I've wasted enough time on you you pathetically arrogant hypocrite.

Have a good one

 

[Rational Poster]

The assigning of a " you cant combat terrorism because it creates more terrorism " idea to me is the dumbest shit you've tried yet.


How many times are you just going to make up shit yet somehow constantly complain about me being disingenuous ?

I've wasted enough time on you you pathetically arrogant hypocrite.

Have a good one

You literally just said this in the quote I posted.


"In reality waging the war like this will only cause more loss of life long term. There will be more retribution and retaliation. "

 

[SammyPops]

By reading the next sentence.

BTW do you remember when you said I was enjoying the slaughter of Palestinians? Because I remember

Fail. You stated what you did and you cannot back track now.

 

[Anewt]

You literally just said this in the quote I posted.


"In reality waging the war like this will only cause more loss of life long term. There will be more retribution and retaliation. "

Once again.. you're locked in your own mind.


Stop Waging war like this ie massive collateral damage...... Doesn't mean stop waging the war.

This idea you have that you can't combat terrorism because it creates more terrorism

How is slowing the destruction and using more caution not combating terrorism...... geeze mate the irony of you bitching about disingenuous statements is hilarious lol.

I'm sure with your supreme intelligence you understand that stop waging the war like this doesnt mean stop fighting........ and are just choosing to be disingenuous..... once again.

Quit the disingenuous shit especially since you bitch about it so frequently

 

[mjfan23]

"In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea." — Netanyahu



Netanyahu invoking "river to the sea" rhetoric. All the Israel supporters claim that's code word for genocide. Still the case?

Absolutely!! He’s the greatest authority on genocide alive today.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Ideally no uprooting necessary.

"In the future, the state of Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea." — Netanyahu



Netanyahu invoking "river to the sea" rhetoric. All the Israel supporters claim that's code word for genocide. Still the case?

@kflo


Bibi just keeps pissing on your face while you’re telling everyone it’s raining.


Every argument you’ve been spewing in bad faith since October 7th ya boy just shits on it

 

[Wadtucket]

At last, the cracks are forming in US support for Netanyahu's lunatic government.

Netanyahu publicly rejects US push for Palestinian state

The Israeli PM's rejection of Washington's efforts shows the growing disagreement between the two allies.

www.bbc.co.uk

As Netanyahu makes it clear he wants only a one state solution, the US confirm there will be "no reoccupation of Gaza", per John Kirby.

Sense is prevailing at last.

Put the pressure on this piece of human garbage as he desperately clings to power.

This, I think, is a game changer. The USA will not stand for a single state solution.

They should work for a one state solution: Palestine

Israel is a genocidal colonizing organ harvesting ethnonationalist theocratic terrorist state ignoring the rest of the world calling for a stop of the wanton murder of Muslim children, they have no right to govern any piece of land

 

[Rational Poster]

Once again.. you're locked in your own mind.


Stop Waging war like this ie massive collateral damage...... Doesn't mean stop waging the war.



How is slowing the destruction and using more caution not combating terrorism...... geeze mate the irony of you bitching about disingenuous statements is hilarious lol.

I'm sure with your supreme intelligence you understand that stop waging the war like this doesnt mean stop fighting........ and are just choosing to be disingenuous..... once again.

Quit the disingenuous shit especially since you bitch about it so frequently

As it has been explained, ad nauseum, this idea that there is some other way to wage this war exists only in fantasy. If there was a better way to do things, they would be done that way. Israel is limited in its manpower and available resources and the combat environment is literally one of the most dangerous and complicated in history. This is the most dense urban environment in both construction and population density that a military has fought in in many, many years. There is no comparison. Not in Ukraine, Iraq or Afghanistan. I honestly cannot think of a battle that is any way similar to this. People like to bring up Mosul, but it really was not even close to the problem the IDF has to solve without tremendous casualties on both sides.

You would be hard pressed to find any examples in all of history where so many people were fighting over such a small area with such dense construction. And anyone even suggesting that the civilians should be evacuated to prevent casualties is called out for genocide or ethnic cleansing. This standard practice in almost every single state level war in history. The civilians are evacuated, and yeah, sometimes they can't return, but at least they're not buried under rubble. The amount of ordinance used so far, it is extremely clear that the Israelis are not intending to kill civilians, because if that was their intention the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands with the amount of strikes that have taken place.

 

[Wadtucket]

Ah yes, the mass rapes lie

There are still genocide supporters in this thread spreading that war propaganda lmao

 

[Anewt]

As it has been explained, ad nauseum, this idea that there is some other way to wage this war exists only in fantasy. If there was a better way to do things, they would be done that way. Israel is limited in its manpower and available resources and the combat environment is literally one of the most dangerous and complicated in history. This is the most dense urban environment in both construction and population density that a military has fought in in many, many years. There is no comparison. Not in Ukraine, Iraq or Afghanistan. I honestly cannot think of a battle that is any way similar to this. People like to bring up Mosul, but it really was not even close to the problem the IDF has to solve without tremendous casualties on both sides.

You would be hard pressed to find any examples in all of history where so many people were fighting over such a small area with such dense construction. And anyone even suggesting that the civilians should be evacuated to prevent casualties is called out for genocide or ethnic cleansing. This standard practice in almost every single state level war in history. The civilians are evacuated, and yeah, sometimes they can't return, but at least they're not buried under rubble. The amount of ordinance used so far, it is extremely clear that the Israelis are not intending to kill civilians, because if that was their intention the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands with the amount of strikes that have taken place.

See thats a decent post..... which I can agree with the majority off...

its strangely completely irrelevant to our discussion though Heh.

All the best mate