International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war.

[Unknown Pleasures]

Well, it's been interesting, but I think I'm bored of this already. For all the excitement today, it's kind of what's been going on for the past God knows how long. Another cycle of the repeat -- same arguments as always for each side. Same media PR atrocity porn campaign. There will likely be the same old same old posturing at the U.N. and so forth.

So many lives and so much money has been wasted over the past 70 years. Maybe an out of the box solution would be for Europe and West who gifted Israel to step in and give a gift to Palestinians, some land somewhere else (maybe Germany is best, I'm not a history buff but last I checked they were kind of the ones that treated the Jews really bad) and offer them up $500K a head or something. The arms dealers may not like it, but maybe they need to learn to code.



P.S. I will give Moosaev credit. He's posting on a largely western audience MMA politics forum and keeping it for the most part civil and accounting well for himself.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Anyone who thinks "innocent Palestinians should die" should put me on ignore, too.

Otherwise, no beef.

I don’t think they should but we know they will. Unfortunately the way a group like Hamas operates is by blending in with the population, making it hard for the military to root them out.

It’s the only way Hamas can hope to stand up to the IDF but a lot of civilians are going to get caught in the crossfire. I doubt that Israel is going to pull any punches and we are probably about to see Vietnam type of tragedies going on. I do feel really bad for the regular Palestinians. At the same time if you or I were an Israeli Soldier, we would be completely outraged and out for revenge.

Would that it were as simple as taking the Hamas fighters that committed atrocities to Justice, but that is impossible to do without a lot of collateral damage.

 

[Siver!]

I don’t think they should but we know they will. Unfortunately the way a group like Hamas operates is by blending in with the population, making it hard for the military to root them out.

It’s the only way Hamas can hope to stand up to the IDF but a lot of civilians are going to get caught in the crossfire. I doubt that Israel is going to pull any punches and we are probably about to see Vietnam type of tragedies going on. I do feel really bad for the regular Palestinians. At the same time if you or I were an Israeli Soldier, we would be completely outraged and out for revenge.

Would that it were as simple as taking the Hamas fighters that committed atrocities to Justice, but that is impossible to do without a lot of collateral damage.

Surely the idea of hostages is to stop the collateral damage?

Unless the Israeli armed forces are just prepared to blow up their own citizens.

 

[WhitestKidU’Know]

You have the intellectual aptitude of a cavetranny

I was thinking turnip but that works too, AbominableTrannyman.

 

[Anewt]

At the same time if you or I were an Israeli Soldier, we would be completely outraged and out for revenge.

Would that it were as simple as taking the Hamas fighters that committed atrocities to Justice, but that is impossible to do without a lot of collateral damage.

I completely agree with you on if we were israeli soldiers we'd be out for Revenge. Personally id like to think i wouldn't blame innocents and commit atrocities on them. But can never know that without being in those shoes. I have quite a rage temperament when i lose control so its just as likely i would. Not arrogant enough to claim I'd be a paragon of virtue at all.


but the second part, wouldn't this be the same for the hamas fighters tho?

Would that it were as simple as taking the Israeli fighters ( soldiers and government ) that committed atrocities to Justice, but that is impossible to do without a lot of collateral damage. ?

I am in no way justifying any of this and condemn it 100%. But it seems there's a lot of of pre-emptive justification for something that could be exceptionally evil.. not only are some attempting to justify these hamas acts itt because x happened in the past. Some itt are legitimately pre-emptively justifying genocide because x just happened.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Surely the idea of hostages is to stop the collateral damage?

Unless the Israeli armed forces are just prepared to blow up their own citizens.

They’re bombing building right now

 

[ocfightfan]

Surely the idea of hostages is to stop the collateral damage?

Unless the Israeli armed forces are just prepared to blow up their own citizens.

No, in actual fact Hamas likes collateral damage. The way they see it any dead muslims will go to heaven and now they have a propaganda weapon to demoralize the Israeli public and turn the world against them. And if it's dead non-muslims thats good too because unbelievers deserve hell fire in their eyes. The purpose of taking hostages is to torture the Israeli public and have bargaining chips to get captured Hamas fighters back.

 

[the big marmot]

Most of the territory the palestine state lost to israel was because of the humilliating defeats of the invading arab armies in the Israeli-Arab War, 6 days war and the yom kippur war. If you invading and you loses terribly you cant complain about losing territory too. The state of palestine was allied with the invading countries therefore they where also losers.

Another thing... before 1948 the territory was BRITISH, and before 1918, Ottoman. There was no such thing as a indenpendent palestine state before 1948, and when they finally gained independence they blewit with stupid fundamentalism and allying with hostile countries.

 

[moosaev]

China is doing worse to the Uyghur Muslim population and yet the world, including the muslim world, does business with China.

The vast majority of countries will do business with any other country that makes such business profitable, as i pointed out, from the perspective of a muslim this may be the worst thing ever to happen, for the rest of the world is a tiny piece of land with awful shit going on, like the other dozens of similar conflicts.

Azerbaijan and Turkey fucked Armenians hard recently and nobody even lifted a finger.

Are you seriously comparing Israel to China? China is the second largest economy and is the global hub of the world’s economic supply chain. They also happen to be debt holders for a large chunk of the globe. In short China is a vital country. Israel is a wealthy but relatively insignificant country, nobody actually needs Israel. There is nothing that Israel provides that can’t be sought elsewhere. If they commit genocide they will go the way of apartheid South Africa, you can book it.

 

[Broke Lester]

If Israelis are going door to door and raping Palestinian women while indiscriminately killing them then that's wrong. If they're casualties of targets of terrorist cells while that also is wrong, They are not the same IMO

Terrorist is nothing more than a point of view.

 

[Broke Lester]

Depends. Did we get any change back from Ukraine?

Maybe a sex change but nothing monetary.

 

[Broke Lester]

I didn't pick a side. Like I said, I'm not informed enough to have a half way valid opinion.

Fair enough, but if you want to be informed watch what the Israelis do to them as well, and then make up your own mind.

 

[reveler]

where's all the war footage? mainstream outlets sanitize everything.

 

[Broke Lester]

Filming and uploading civilian deaths as a means for promotion is about the sickest thing I could think a government can do.

Meanwhile mainstream media does it almost everyday, with a disclaimer of course.

 

[moosaev]

You really should reevaluate your positions and how you express them. Saying boo hoo for innocent civilians murdered intentionally and in cold blood is sick. Sickening.

Boo hoo. I really don’t give a shit anymore. The complete lack of empathy the Palestinians have gotten from Israel supporters for decades now has made me cynical and bitter about this conflict. Fuck em, let them suffer like the Palestinians, I don’t give a shit.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

If you or I were an Israeli Soldier, we would be completely outraged and out for revenge.

Would that it were as simple as taking the Hamas fighters that committed atrocities to Justice, but that is impossible to do without a lot of collateral damage.

 

[tramendous]

See thread. Israel is not "occupying the west bank". Israel is occupying Area C of the west bank, which is a small area geographically speaking, and an area where Israelis are the majority population. And the occupation of Area C is in accordance with the Oslo accords, signed by the State of Palestine. The idea is that Area C is to be gradually transferred into palestinian hands, as tensions de-escalate*. Which is not happening as long as palestinans fire rockets into Tel Aviv, launch jihadist attacks on border settlements et cetera simply to keep the conflict going.

*Israel has proven time and time again to be a good-faith negotiation partner, and has ceded numerous regions in the past. So it is not unrealistic that Israel would eventually actually cede the west bank (see Wye River, 2005 withdrawal from Gaza, Sinai Peninsula et cetera. Israel has already ceded parts of Area C to Area A & B post-Oslo Accord. Area C has been reduced from 72 percent of the West Bank, to currently around 60 percent). Assuming the palestinians can consistently act a little less genocidally.

"they're not occupying the west bank, they're occupying area c of the west bank" are you dumb or are you retarded?

 

[Snackbar]

Boo hoo. I really don’t give a shit anymore. The complete lack of empathy the Palestinians have gotten from Israel supporters for decades now has made me cynical and bitter about this conflict. Fuck em, let them suffer like the Palestinians, I don’t give a shit.

And then when Palestinians get turned to glass over the next few days, pro Israelis will say boo hoo, they don't give a shit, you will rage, and the cycle continues. I swear both sides in this conflict are the dumbest mother fuckers on earth.

 

[moosaev]

And then when Palestinians get turned to glass over the next few days, pro Israelis will say boo hoo, they don't give a shit, you will rage, and the cycle continues. I swear both sides in this conflict are the dumbest mother fuckers on earth.

Pro-Israelis have never given a shit about Palestinians, I’ve accepted that. Nothing will change by what Israel does next, Palestinians will be killed in the coming days, as they’ve been killed repeatedly over the years. Just another day in Palestine. Just don’t expect me to shed tears for Israelis. Fuck em.

 

[tramendous]

And then when Palestinians get turned to glass over the next few days, pro Israelis will say boo hoo, they don't give a shit, you will rage, and the cycle continues. I swear both sides in this conflict are the dumbest mother fuckers on earth.

We already know the pro-Israelis don't give a shit. Its why I dont care about their fake tantrums about 'civilians'. In this very thread theyre all shrugging at the thought that Israel will wipe out the Palestinians which in their mind is what Israel will do next (never mind the fact that Israel would fail at that).