If you could redraw countries borders today on world what would you change? and resettle people

[Islam Imamate]

Nice! But so basically armenians and jews get screwed? And basically all christians

Armenians get a neighborhood in coastal California or wherever it is they congregate in that state.

Jews have 1947 Israel, I say that's enough.

How are Christians screwed?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

New world nations weren't built by a homogeneous population. Their (our) culture was never created by just one people.

Once again, proper vetting shpuld be the norm.

Well obviously I am use this as an example, but Quebec for example is considerably more homogeneous than many places called the 'old world''.

 

[HomerThompson]

Armenians get a neighborhood in coastal California or wherever it is they congregate in that state.

Jews have 1947 Israel, I say that's enough.

How are Christians screwed?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Regardless of race?

Huh? What does race have to do with vetting?

Personally I don't feel as if its either or on the global level. As an American I obviously prefer civic nationalism but increasingly I feel like ethnonationalism might be necessary evil in some cases.

Perhaps, but we're talking ideals here. You can't say that your ideal for three continents is racially defined citizenship and also that you're not a racist. If he wants to defend the view that citizenship is ideally determined by race, that's one thing. If he wants to say that it's ideally determined by laws designed to benefit the country, that's another.

Take the issue of Kurdistan. The Kurds know they have to say the right things to the West and present their secular outlook but its essentially a call for an ethnonationalist state.

Civic nationalism is a nice ideal but unfortunately I think in many developing countries things like ethnic or tribal ties are what really dominates politics and in some cases I think recognizing that and allowing certain ethnic groups their own autonomy, either within a shared state or in their own state, is the best option in the near future.

This goes back to the main issue that I brought up before. If Kurds and other groups in the region are getting along, they could be seen as the same ethnicity. Since they don't, they're a different one. People confuse cause and effect on this issue.

 

[Jack V Savage]

With people of african, ME, or hispanic descent included? What about whites?

I guess we describe the word 'fluid' differently, fair enough

Whites, yes (obviously a lot of Japanese people have a lot of Russian in them, for example). Hispanic isn't a racial category. Not many Africans in the mix there. Not sure about Middle-Eastern types.

 

[Jack V Savage]

grew up in the area, wait what? weren't you raised in a single parent household as you've stated many times on here, what was your mom doing in Japan for work?
edit: forgive me if i'm confusing you for somebody else, my bad if so

Pretty sure you are confusing me with somebody else.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Pretty sure you are confusing me with somebody else.

my bad, that's on me

I find that really interesting though, and never knew that about you. W/o giving specifics, did you enjoy it? live in more than one country over there? or just one specific?

I've been to main Japan, but only lived in Okinawa personally

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Lol. You label me racist yet want me to play nice? Fuck off Jack.

Is Europe, Africa and Asia racially homogeneous right now?

I would generally advise against trying to argue with him, unless that is, you feel like debating semantics and drifting away from meaningful conversation.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Whites, yes (obviously a lot of Japanese people have a lot of Russian in them, for example). Hispanic isn't a racial category. Not many Africans in the mix there. Not sure about Middle-Eastern types.

so what do you call Mestizo type people? like virtually all of Latin America that wasn't' heavily effected by the slave trade?

they aren't white, nor African, nor Asian?

 

[InternetHero]

Armenians get a neighborhood in coastal California or wherever it is they congregate in that state.

Jews have 1947 Israel, I say that's enough.

How are Christians screwed?

Hmm, well, perhaps he means there are few Christians left in East Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and further into the wild frontiers of the Middle East.

They have dwindled in North Africa and are certainly being pinched in Egypt as well.

 

[Jack V Savage]

so what do you call Mestizo type people? like virtually all of Latin America that wasn't' heavily effected by the slave trade?

they aren't white, nor African, nor Asian?

"Mestizo-type people" works well enough. Depends on the point of the discussion.

 

[Bald1]

Huh? What does race have to do with vetting?

My position is everyone is welcome after being properly vetted. Regardless of race. Or did you miss that part in my 1st post. I'm just curious how that fits in withy racism.

 

[Bald1]

I would generally advise against trying to argue with him, unless that is, you feel like debating semantics and drifting away from meaningful conversation.

I'm familiar with Jack. Usually he has something of value to add to the convo. Labeling me racist isn't valuable though, and neither is there any truth to it. He's just doing the alt-left bs of anyone who disagrees with me is an "ist" crap.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Perhaps, but we're talking ideals here. You can't say that your ideal for three continents is racially defined citizenship and also that you're not a racist. If he wants to defend the view that citizenship is ideally determined by race, that's one thing. If he wants to say that it's ideally determined by laws designed to benefit the country, that's another.

Fair enough I suppose.

This goes back to the main issue that I brought up before. If Kurds and other groups in the region are getting along, they could be seen as the same ethnicity. Since they don't, they're a different one. People confuse cause and effect on this issue.

Eh, I think your earlier claim about the constructed nature of ethnicity is true and relevant to the discussion here generally but in this specific case I think you're oversimplifying it.

The Kurds don't get along with their neighbors because they want to preserve their unique culture and exercise self governance and some of the states they live in want the opposite and wish to create a homogenized citizenship.

They're not seen as "Kurds" simply because they're unruly, they're seen as a separate ethnic group because they have their own language and customs which they care very much about preserving. For instance language is a key issue in the countries the Kurds live in as the state they live in often seek to restrict the teaching and use of the Kurdish language while the Kurds obviously agitate for the opposite.

Hmm, well, perhaps he means there are few Christians left in East Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and further into the wild frontiers of the Middle East.

They have dwindled in North Africa and are certainly being pinched in Egypt as well.

Where the hell do you give them a state? Do the Copts get the Sinai? Kind of a shitty deal really.

 

[Bald1]

Well obviously I am use this as an example, but Quebec for example is considerably more homogeneous than many places called the 'old world''.

True, yet there's a sizeable and varied indigenous population there.

 

[Seaside]

Armenians get a neighborhood in coastal California or wherever it is they congregate in that state.

Jews have 1947 Israel, I say that's enough.

How are Christians screwed?

they be heavily out number and not have a religious state in middle east. i thought lebanon supposed be that for them but it now majority muslim. i just think that they could easily get crushed. It might be like how christians have it in egypt or any heavily muslim majority area. Israel having 1947 borders would make them very vulnerable i think to.

poor armenians

I'm familiar with Jack. Usually he has something of value to add to the convo. Labeling me racist isn't valuable though, and neither is there any truth to it. He's just doing the alt-left bs of anyone who disagrees with me is an "ist" crap.

typical westerner white guy probably. so many westerners always scream racism.

 

[InternetHero]

Where the hell do you give them a state? Do the Copts get the Sinai? Kind of a shitty deal really.

I can see I misunderstood what you both were talking about.

"My bad."

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm familiar with Jack. Usually he has something of value to add to the convo. Labeling me racist isn't valuable though, and neither is there any truth to it. He's just doing the alt-left bs of anyone who disagrees with me is an "ist" crap.

Nah, I get his point though I don't think you're a racist. He seems to think, not without reason would say, that you're selectively arguing for ethnonationalism and he sees ethnonationalism as inherently racist.

For instance, when you speak of preserving culture what do you really mean by that? You say you support properly vetted immigration for both ethno and civic nationalists but they will have very different concerns and for them "properly vetted" could mean very different things. For instance, a newly independent Kurdistan might not want medium to large scale Arab,Turkish, and/or Persian immigration from the surrounding countries but might encourage Kurdish migration to help preserve the Kurdish character of Kurdistan. That's immigration policy which takes ethnicity into account or from @Jack V Savage's POV, as I see it, racism since the ideal citizen is imagined as inherently a part of a certain ethnic group.

 

[Islam Imamate]

they be heavily out number and not have a religious state in middle east. i thought lebanon supposed be that for them but it now majority muslim. i just think that they could easily get crushed. It might be like how christians have it in egypt or any heavily muslim majority area. Israel having 1947 borders would make them very vulnerable i think to.

poor armenians

Okay, they get Mount Lebanon as their home country.

 

[Bald1]

Nah, I get his point though I don't think you're a racist. He seems to think, not without reason would say, that you're selectively arguing for ethnonationalism and he sees ethnonationalism as inherently racist.

For instance, when you speak of preserving culture what do you really mean by that? You say you support properly vetted immigration for both ethno and civic nationalists but they will have very different concerns and for them "properly vetted" could mean very different things. For instance, a newly independent Kurdistan might not want medium to large scale Arab,Turkish, and/or Persian immigration from the surrounding countries but might encourage Kurdish migration to help preserve the Kurdish character of Kurdistan. That's immigration policy which takes ethnicity into account or from @Jack V Savage's POV, as I see it, racism since the ideal citizen is imagined as inherently a part of a certain ethnic group.

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

1. prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
   "a program to combat racism"
   synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
   "Aborigines are the main victims of racism in Australia"
   • the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
     noun: racism
     "theories of racism

That's the definition of racism. Jack can shove his sandy panties up his ass, right along with his unfounded slander.

Now that that's out of the way.

What's wrong with an etno national state if that's what said state was founded on or that's what the citizens want? It's right in line with the self determination of a people principle.

Notice I'm not arguing for such a model in diverse countries. Also notice I'm not arguing for any kind of racial purity anywhere. So where's the racism?