Elections I'm still convinced morals and ethics should weigh strongly in deciding who leads us.

[toasty]

Why would it be? If candidates are disqualified for someone who voted for them breaking the law, then we can't have anybody run for office ever again. Nobody wanted to lock Bernie up or disqualify him for the congressional baseball shooting, Kamala Harris is next in line for the presidency after not just encouraging rioters(who actually killed people), but raising money to bail them out of jail if they got locked up during 6 months of nationwide riots that did billions in damages with several dozen murders. How can anybody sit with a straight face and say 75 million people should lose their right to vote for the candidate they want to vote for, but nobody else?

false equivalencies and the old the other side does bad stuff too so I should be forgiven my sins argument?

I don't understand how someone can sit with a straight face and say, The guy that tried to overturn a legitimate election and the certified votes of what was it 81 million people should be the candidate for the GOP.

Also, small point, I'm not saying

"they should lose their right to vote for him"

I am clearly saying "I don't understand why the GOP political machine would choose him as their candidate when they have untainted candidates that support his policies and is some cases take them even further, that could be put forth"

There is a huge difference between those two statements.

I firmly believe anyone should be allowed to vote for anyone they choose. I just think DJT is a dumb choice to make.

I've actually enjoyed talking with you and @ColemanwastheGOAT and @Andy Capp and @Jack V Savage and @Whippy McGee appreciate everyone who has responded.

Gotta have the debate to be able to try to understand each other, especially when we disagree

For all those who go with the "all politicians are evil, so we're fucked forever" argument, I truly hope you're wrong.

 

[Andy Capp]

false equivalencies and the old the other side does bad stuff too so I should be forgiven my sins argument?

I don't understand how someone can sit with a straight face and say, The guy that tried to overturn a legitimate election and the certified votes of what was it 81 million people should be the candidate for the GOP.

Also, small point, I'm not saying

"they should lose their right to vote for him"

I am clearly saying "I don't understand why the GOP political machine would choose him as their candidate when they have untainted candidates that support his policies and is some cases take them even further, that could be put forth"

There is a huge difference between those two statements.

I firmly believe anyone should be allowed to vote for anyone they choose. I just think DJT is a dumb choice to make.

I've actually enjoyed talking with you and @ColemanwastheGOAT and @Andy Capp and @Jack V Savage and @Whippy McGee appreciate everyone who has responded.

Gotta have the debate to be able to try to understand each other, especially when we disagree

For all those who go with the "all politicians are evil, so we're fucked forever" argument, I truly hope you're wrong.

In the case of "why the GOP political machine would choose him as their candidate when they have untainted candidates that support his policies and is some cases take them even further, that could be put forth", I'm pretty sure it's because they're terrified of splitting the vote if they back someone else and the MAGA cult doesn't budge off of Orange Peephole T.

Look at the Republican candidate debates. Christy is the only one who had the balls to criticize Trump. The others had obviously gotten the message from the MAGAs--do it and we'll bury you in this and every other election to come. Christy obviously wasn't loved by the MAGA crowd to begin with--I'd bet he's never running for anything again unless it's VP in 2028.

They sold the soul of the party in 2016 for a Republican-controlled Supreme Court for pretty much the same reason when it comes to Evangelicals.

Winning elections to stay in power and keep the money coming in from their backers is all they care about; they don't care at all about governing.

 

[nostradumbass]

false equivalencies and the old the other side does bad stuff too so I should be forgiven my sins argument?

I don't understand how someone can sit with a straight face and say, The guy that tried to overturn a legitimate election and the certified votes of what was it 81 million people should be the candidate for the GOP.

Also, small point, I'm not saying

"they should lose their right to vote for him"

I am clearly saying "I don't understand why the GOP political machine would choose him as their candidate when they have untainted candidates that support his policies and is some cases take them even further, that could be put forth"

There is a huge difference between those two statements.

I firmly believe anyone should be allowed to vote for anyone they choose. I just think DJT is a dumb choice to make.

I've actually enjoyed talking with you and @ColemanwastheGOAT and @Andy Capp and @Jack V Savage and @Whippy McGee appreciate everyone who has responded.

Gotta have the debate to be able to try to understand each other, especially when we disagree

For all those who go with the "all politicians are evil, so we're fucked forever" argument, I truly hope you're wrong.

Well it's obviously worth pointing out inconsistent standards. If 2 fighters pop for steroids, but you ban one of them for life and just tussle the other one's hair and book him for a main event on the next card, then you're obviously just trying to give 1 guy a free advantage.

The GOP political machine clearly didn't choose him as their candidate, the voters did against the wishes of the GOP establishment who would much prefer a neocon.

As far as "trying to overturn a legitimate election", they don't believe the election was legitimate because of preposterous last minute rule changes, states violating their own constitutions, a preposterous number of first time mail in voters with nowhere to close to rate of rejection of mail ins for every other election, every swing state flipping after polls were closed, burst water pipes, boarding up windows to count them, then never investigating and fighting tooth and nail to prevent anyone else from inspecting them either to give a guy with dementia 25% more votes than Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama got.

It's not just your right to challenge such a ridiculously out of the ordinary election process, it's your obligation, and I don't see why it's a dumb choice to pick someone who's favored to win the general over a neocon who can't get any support from their own party's voters.

And of course there's also the fact that democrats didn't trust the new election process either until they got the result they wanted. The large majority of democrat voters said a month before the election that they didn't trust it would be a fair election, then as soon as they get the result they wanted, suddenly the 70% who said they didn't trust it before turned into 92% trusted it.

 

[toasty]

Well it's obviously worth pointing out inconsistent standards. If 2 fighters pop for steroids, but you ban one of them for life and just tussle the other one's hair and book him for a main event on the next card, then you're obviously just trying to give 1 guy a free advantage.

The GOP political machine clearly didn't choose him as their candidate, the voters did against the wishes of the GOP establishment who would much prefer a neocon.

As far as "trying to overturn a legitimate election", they don't believe the election was legitimate because of preposterous last minute rule changes, states violating their own constitutions, a preposterous number of first time mail in voters with nowhere to close to rate of rejection of mail ins for every other election, every swing state flipping after polls were closed, burst water pipes, boarding up windows to count them, then never investigating and fighting tooth and nail to prevent anyone else from inspecting them either to give a guy with dementia 25% more votes than Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama got.

It's not just your right to challenge such a ridiculously out of the ordinary election process, it's your obligation, and I don't see why it's a dumb choice to pick someone who's favored to win the general over a neocon who can't get any support from their own party's voters.

"I don't see why it's a dumb choice to pick someone who's favored to win the general over a neocon who can't get any support from their own party's voters."

Because, in my opinion, based on his actions, the actions of his followers, the rulings of our legal system, the words of his own party, and his own words, etc and so forth, he is bad for our nation.

You have every right to disagree and to vote for whomever you want.

We shall all see what happens soon enough.

 

[Fluffernutter]

And believing that old fashioned notion makes me wonder why someone like Liz Cheney has been ostracized and DJT is about to consolidate his hold on the GOP. Let's look at the tale of the tape in this hypothetical match up

Liz Cheney vs Donald Trump

Age-

57 vs 77

Conservative background-

Her entire life vs since maybe 2015 give or take

Impeachments-

0 vs 2

Indictments-

0 vs 91

Ongoing trials-

0 vs 5 or 6 I’ve lost count

Staffers who have gone to jail or lost millions in lawsuits related to her work-

None that I know of vs A shit ton

Marriages

1 vs 4

Charge of sexual assault & paying for sex-

0 vs many

Religious faith

United Methodist vs the almighty dollar

Willingness to sacrifice for the greater good?

Seems like it vs no fucking way

Assaults on the capitol caused

0 vs 1

Popular votes lost

0 vs 2

Lies caught in

None that I know of vs 5,000,612 and counting


While I disagree with her politics but would strongly consider voting for a Cheney lead ticket with Haley, Kinzinger, Pence or insert other non-tainted republican over any Trump or Biden led tickets.

Am I nuts? Are there other left leaning independents that would vote for a conservative ticket over Joe at this point?

You should write her name on the ballot.

 

[Jack V Savage]

They said they were running on the 2016 platform.

They said this:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/docs/Resolution_Platform_2020.pdf

But that's kind of crazy.

He also explained his second term priorities to Hannity. This was the question:

What's at stake in this election as you compare and contrast, and what are your top priority items for a second term?

And his response:

One of the things that will be really great — you know, the word "experience" is still good. I always say talent is more important than experience. I've always said that. But the word "experience" is a very important word. It's a very important meaning. I never did this before. I never slept over in Washington. I was in Washington I think 17 times — all of a sudden I'm president of the United States. You know the story. I'm riding down Pennsylvania Avenue with our first lady, and I say, "This is great." But I didn't know very many people in Washington, it wasn't my thing. I was from Manhattan, from New York. Now I know everybody. And I have great people in the administration.

So there's that.

 

[oldshadow]

They said this:

https://prod-cdn-static.gop.com/docs/Resolution_Platform_2020.pdf

But that's kind of crazy.

He also explained his second term priorities to Hannity. This was the question:



And his response:



So there's that.

I went by the official statement on the platform not by Trumps explanation of it.

He is forced to follow the platform mostly.

For example Trump being a northern republican is not a defender of the 2md amendment. However he knew he had to support it or lose backing.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I went by the official statement on the platform not by Trumps explanation of it.

He is forced to follow the platform mostly.

For example Trump being a northern republican is not a defender of the 2md amendment. However he knew he had to support it or lose backing.

The official statement was that they would defer to Trump. Then Trump gave his brilliant explanation of what he wanted to accomplish in his second term. Point is just that if you're voting on policy, you're not voting for Trump. His pitch is just that he's so great, great things will happen if he wins.

 

[oldshadow]

The official statement was that they would defer to Trump. Then Trump gave his brilliant explanation of what he wanted to accomplish in his second term. Point is just that if you're voting on policy, you're not voting for Trump. His pitch is just that he's so great, great things will happen if he wins.

I'm sure not voting democrat when with their platform.

I'm voting republican on their stance on the issues. Not specifically what Trump says.

Here is Trumps statements on issues. And this site has most politicians on their statements on the issues. Not my only source but one of them.

Donald Trump on the Issues

 

[BROWNPRIDE]

You realize Joe Biden is fucking America and its people like no president in history has done right?

Haha you're so full of shit and you believe it!

 

[no fat chicks]

Lmaoooooo you people are so broken.

“Because your party is so bad, my party had to settle and we voted for the worst president ever! Please do better!”

I love it

That's not the case tho. It's also not "my party" I'm always going to vote whatever party chooses to put foward evidence based policy that is better for most people.

If republicans started being pro union and universal Healthcare they'd get my vote.

 

[Madmick]

Moral and ethics used to be far more important. I quit the Republican Party when, HW Bush said, "Read my lips, no new taxes", and then approved a big tax increase. I voted for Harry Browne and Bednarick after that asshole. Today, no one cares if Joe Biden or Trump lies like that. The Clintons' arrival was the final nail that sealed the deal on us having ethical leadership. I've gotten to the point where I don't really listen to their claims (lies), but watch their actions. I don't care if Trump lies about his net worth, crowd size, or bestest hires, if he is doing well on the economy, border, international issues, etc. I don't care if Biden lies about his academic credentials, upbringing, his helicopter rides in Afghanistan, his train rides, or coal mining family, as long as he performs well in his job. My standards have clearly dropped as the politicians have become even worse and we only get to pick from what is offered.

Huh? In terms of actions, Trump told plenty of lies.

He lies about everything, and yes, he reneges on policy promises. He said he would pass tax plans where the wealthiest would pay more. He cut their taxes. He said he would reduce the federal deficit. He didn't even pretend to try, and he ballooned it. He promised not to cut Medicare or Medicaid. He signed the bill cutting them. He said he wouldn't cut Social Security spending. He did. He said he would fight gay marriage even if SCOTUS legalized it. He didn't. Trump said he wouldn't bomb Middle Eastern countries, interfering in their affairs. He then bombed Assad's regime. He promised to prosecute Hillary Clinton for her server scandal. He didn't. He promised to release his tax returns. He never did.

It goes on and on and on.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

That's not the case tho. It's also not "my party" I'm always going to vote whatever party chooses to put foward evidence based policy that is better for most people.

If republicans started being pro union and universal Healthcare they'd get my vote.

Lol, if only “pro union and universal healthcare”, so you clearly are a democrat.

Dude, if Trump is the worst president ever and a terribly immoral person, both in 2016, 2020, especially now, why wouldn’t the DNC run someone other than Biden? Biden being the most pro union president ever apparently. Why aren’t you happy as hell the GOP is running such a bad candidate?

Why did they even go with Biden in 2020 if he is old and sucks, wouldn’t Bernie or someone you like have won? I believe Bernie could have won 2016, where as Clinton couldn’t.

Instead your party force feeds you chronic liars, who are neocon globalists. Maybe cry more about the democrats who force fed Clinton, force fed Biden now twice.

Where as the grassroots republican voters are the sons pushing Trump, as the GOP establishment wish that weren’t the case.

It is the democrats that need to do better and represent their grassroots base. Maybe they then wouldn’t have literally the worst president in history right now.

Just look at all the media and democrat leaders who have circle jerked over Biden the last few years. If he is as good as the democrats say, why would you even care about Trump and the GOP? Easy win for Biden since he is an amazing president

Again, maybe it is they, the DNC, who should be going better for you

 

[Copper Burner]

Haha you're so full of shit and you believe it!

You are blind man walking, which tells me that you are not a God fearing man.

What you say is meaningless. You cannot see.

 

[86'd]

It still pisses me off how Biden lied about his academic record, lied about having 3 degrees, lied about being a professor, lied about graduating top of his class when in fact he was one the dumbest students in the entire school. Total slimebag.

Sounds like a politician!

Hey you know the difference between a smart criminal and a dumb one? Dumb ones go to jail, smart ones go to Washington.

Really the entire middle class and lower classes should completely consolidate on things rather than fight so they can use their funds to create lobbying groups like AIPAC has done

It almost like there’s a direct effort to keep the middle and lower class fighting amongst themselves……..

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Because he told them not to do it.

LOL!