is Krav Maga really effective

[thirteen]

^^^ good post. Learned a lot.

 

[SideofKO]

Here's my .02

I've been training at a Krav Maga school for about a year now. On top of Krav Maga, we are trained in Muay Thai. My school also offers a grappling class once a week.

To me, this seems like the best way to go for self defense. Whoever thinks Krav doesn't teach ground fighting is mistaken. We don't do ground work as extensively as a BJJ school, but I don't think we need to. The ground fighting curriculum in Krav Maga Worldwide was developed by a BJJ black belt who put in the techniques he felt would be useful on the streets.

As far as sparring goes, everybody at my school spars after a few months. Theres no such thing as Krav Maga sparring really, because all of the strikes in Krav were taken from MT and boxing. So basically our sparring is similar to what you would see at a MT gym.

Its bascially a hybrid system that never claimed to be the originator of the techniques, they just wanted a universal system in the IDF.

I've trained with people that have used it successfully in the streets. Krav works, whether people like it or not. It gets a bad rep from its increased popularity. I'm sure there are tons of Krav McDojos out there, but when theres money to be made, thats what happens. The trick is to find a legit school, instructor, and put in the time. Remember, Krav Maga is a system entirely of techniques from BJJ, MT, Judo, Boxing, and some Aikido for joint manipulation.

As for the weapon defense, sure the risk you're going to be successful is low, especially against a knife. The best option is running, but sometimes that isn't an option. I'd rather have some idea of what to do then "wing" a knife fight. We learn knife fighting as well to learn how to properly use a knife (stances, strikes etc..). The club defenses seem the most effective to me. We train them full speed in class and I havn't been knocked out yet.

That's my take. Hopefully it sheds some light on Krav Maga.

So then it's MMA basically, with a couple of nut shots and finger bending moves thrown in? Then why the hell call it Krav Maga? Every Krav Maga video I've ever seen including the classes I attended all looked the same, like every Traditional Martial art I've ever taken with a little of this and a little of that but watered down.

As for the weapon defense. I would not want some fantasy moves stuck in my head along with a false sense of security that comes along with thinking that you can defend yourself against someone with a knife. You would be better putting in your time learning and training to run fast, use verbal judo to diffuse situations and if you're cornered learning to pick up some weapons near you instead of learning to do something that will most likely get you killed. Like this:


YouTube - Tactical Combat Systems - Knife Fighting

I have a better idea. Just take a red marker, and have a buddy try to slash you as many times as he can before you can disarm you. Then count the number of slash wounds.

 

[bassboy]

So then it's MMA basically, with a couple of nut shots and finger bending moves thrown in? Then why the hell call it Krav Maga? Every Krav Maga video I've ever seen including the classes I attended all looked the same, like every Traditional Martial art I've ever taken with a little of this and a little of that but watered down.

As for the weapon defense. I would not want some fantasy moves stuck in my head along with a false sense of security that comes along with thinking that you can defend yourself against someone with a knife. You would be better putting in your time learning and training to run fast, use verbal judo to diffuse situations and if you're cornered learning to pick up some weapons near you instead of learning to do something that will most likely get you killed. Like this:


YouTube - Tactical Combat Systems - Knife Fighting

I have a better idea. Just take a red marker, and have a buddy try to slash you as many times as he can before you can disarm you. Then count the number of slash wounds.

To answer your question, yes, Krav Maga is MMA. It is a hybrid system used in the IDF and they called it Krav Maga. Why isn't it called MMA? I have no idea. Was the term Mixed Martial Arts being used in the 40's? I can't answer that question.

The whole "nut shot" thing is ridiculous. Yes there are groin strikes in KM, but they aren't used in every technique like people on this forum seem to think. Its just an option because its a street fight, and there are no rules.

As far as attacks be it with a weapon or not, of course you try and diffuse the situation verbally and get away. If that fails you resort to your training. Let's face it, if you're attacked empty handed by someone with a knife, you're screwed. Nobody will argue that. If that person is a knife fighter, you're really screwed. One of my instructors is a cop and he has shown us pictures of knife attack victims, its bad news.

There is no false sense of security given at my school about weapons. The only reason the techniques are taught is if you're in a life or death situation, and you have to try and do something. I don't know what you mean by "fantasy moves" but the weapons disarms in KM are all pretty simplistic in nature.

Would you be better off the learn MMA than Krav Maga? I don't know. I personally like the defensive tactics aspect of Krav Maga, and also enjoy Muay Thai and am just starting to get into grappling. I think all of those training styles would be beneficial towards defending yourself.

Hopefully I answered your questions. If not, ask again and I will do my best.

 

[SideofKO]

The whole "nut shot" thing is ridiculous. Yes there are groin strikes in KM, but they aren't used in every technique like people on this forum seem to think. Its just an option because its a street fight, and there are no rules.

There is a consensus among the people that I've spoken to that since nut shots are acceptable in combat that it almost negates or nullifies any attempt by anyone to do anything ever. You may think differently.

As far as attacks be it with a weapon or not, of course you try and diffuse the situation verbally and get away. If that fails you resort to your training. Let's face it, if you're attacked empty handed by someone with a knife, you're screwed. Nobody will argue that. If that person is a knife fighter, you're really screwed. One of my instructors is a cop and he has shown us pictures of knife attack victims, its bad news.

Which is why I think it's ridiculous to try and teach anything with confidence about disarming an attacker with a knife. I'm not saying it cannot be done. I'm saying that the risk is too great to engage and if someone engages you, the best scenario is to run, use a near by object as a weapon and not some of the McDojo techniques that I've seen with my own eyes being taught to other people.

There is no false sense of security given at my school about weapons. The only reason the techniques are taught is if you're in a life or death situation, and you have to try and do something. I don't know what you mean by "fantasy moves" but the weapons disarms in KM are all pretty simplistic in nature.

Did you watch the video, or any video? This is the same stuff I've seen in person in my experience. Most guys are not going to lunge in on you ala Jim Carrey and hold their arm their with a knife in it. Even attempting to catch a hand with a knife in it is dangerous. You can cut a finger off, etc. It's not like in boxing where you can parry a jab because no ones thumb is going to cut a main artery.

Look, there are aspects of Krav Maga that are fine. I just think that people would be better off learning the actual sports or systems that are the underpinnings of Krav Maga. I'm not saying that everyone should be a BB in BJJ or a Pro Boxer but the techniques in Krav Maga seem watered down. This has been my experience not just from youtube videos but also having trained in Krav Maga.

 

[bassboy]

There is a consensus among the people that I've spoken to that since nut shots are acceptable in combat that it almost negates or nullifies any attempt by anyone to do anything ever. You may think differently.



Which is why I think it's ridiculous to try and teach anything with confidence about disarming an attacker with a knife. I'm not saying it cannot be done. I'm saying that the risk is too great to engage and if someone engages you, the best scenario is to run, use a near by object as a weapon and not some of the McDojo techniques that I've seen with my own eyes being taught to other people.



Did you watch the video, or any video? This is the same stuff I've seen in person in my experience. Most guys are not going to lunge in on you ala Jim Carrey and hold their arm their with a knife in it. Even attempting to catch a hand with a knife in it is dangerous. You can cut a finger off, etc. It's not like in boxing where you can parry a jab because no ones thumb is going to cut a main artery.

Look, there are aspects of Krav Maga that are fine. I just think that people would be better off learning the actual sports or systems that are the underpinnings of Krav Maga. I'm not saying that everyone should be a BB in BJJ or a Pro Boxer but the techniques in Krav Maga seem watered down. This has been my experience not just from youtube videos but also having trained in Krav Maga.

I hear where you are coming from. That video you posted though looks like rubbish (I agree with you). Anything flashy is usually useless.

You're right about the knife stuff. I don't see knife defenses working unless some drunk is using broad choreographed strikes, and its still most likely going to end up poorly for the defender.

I can see the gun and club defenses being effective however (given the gun is within reach). Those who have trained in those techniques for a few years are fast. I've had the techniques done on me and am convinced they could work. The same goes for the club/blunt object defenses.

The system Haganah deals with excellent street techniques. You should have a look into it. It was created by an Israeli Special Ops combat vet. We learn Haganah where I train and I have trained with the founder. Some good stuff there.

It would definitely be better to learn all the systems that make up Krav Maga, but I don't see how the average person could devote that much time and energy into martial arts.

I don't attend a typical Krav Maga school. We focus much more on Muay Thai and groundwork technique than most. My instructor is not just a Krav practitioner, so he values boxing skills and grappling to a much higher degree. My opinion may not count for much because our experiences with Krav Maga sound very different.

 

[SideofKO]

I hear where you are coming from. That video you posted though looks like rubbish (I agree with you). Anything flashy is usually useless.

You're right about the knife stuff. I don't see knife defenses working unless some drunk is using broad choreographed strikes, and its still most likely going to end up poorly for the defender.

I can see the gun and club defenses being effective however (given the gun is within reach). Those who have trained in those techniques for a few years are fast. I've had the techniques done on me and am convinced they could work. The same goes for the club/blunt object defenses.

The system Haganah deals with excellent street techniques. You should have a look into it. It was created by an Israeli Special Ops combat vet. We learn Haganah where I train and I have trained with the founder. Some good stuff there.

It would definitely be better to learn all the systems that make up Krav Maga, but I don't see how the average person could devote that much time and energy into martial arts.

I don't attend a typical Krav Maga school. We focus much more on Muay Thai and groundwork technique than most. My instructor is not just a Krav practitioner, so he values boxing skills and grappling to a much higher degree. My opinion may not count for much because our experiences with Krav Maga sound very different.

This may be like comparing McDojo TKD with real TKD. For the longest time I had some awful experiences with it, but it seems that it had been the quality of the school and not necessarily the art itself. I've seen some really good applications since then from legitimate guys.

 

[James Keith]

To answer your question, yes, Krav Maga is MMA. It is a hybrid system used in the IDF and they called it Krav Maga. Why isn't it called MMA? I have no idea. Was the term Mixed Martial Arts being used in the 40's? I can't answer that question.

I believe it's Hebrew for "close combat" or something like that.

 

[Payak]

still no clips of a practitioner in action,

 

[jimike]

All the dirty tactics would be pretty useless in most fights imo.

Whether we like it or not, men as a whole are more likely to get involved in some random dickmeasuring competion with other men rather than fighting off 5 guys trying to KILL you, or some madman trying to shank you with a knife.
Poking out eyes and windpipes won't be much use when your throwing fists with Joe Smith from the pub after he insults your wife. All you'll be left with will be some subpar strikes and poor conditioning to recieving strikes yourself.

I got threatened with a knife by some really, really scrawny teenager a few years back and i never even took the chance. I said **** it and just ran. Better to do that and be out of harms way and a bruised ego for 10 minutes than pulling blades out of your midsection imo.

Alot of the stuff would come pretty naturally in life or death situations anyway i'd think. I can't imagine some mother defending her baby's life to be anything other than extremely vicious.

 

[chemi242]

ask the dead hamas

 

[Payak]

by the dead hamas you mean the ones that were hit with missiles whilst attending school right.

 

[50inches]

^^ Thank you for saying what I was thinking

 

[Jooba]

by the dead hamas you mean the ones that were hit with missiles whilst attending school right.

lol perfect response

 

[Jooba]

I hear where you are coming from. That video you posted though looks like rubbish (I agree with you). Anything flashy is usually useless.

You're right about the knife stuff. I don't see knife defenses working unless some drunk is using broad choreographed strikes, and its still most likely going to end up poorly for the defender.

I can see the gun and club defenses being effective however (given the gun is within reach). Those who have trained in those techniques for a few years are fast. I've had the techniques done on me and am convinced they could work. The same goes for the club/blunt object defenses.

The system Haganah deals with excellent street techniques. You should have a look into it. It was created by an Israeli Special Ops combat vet. We learn Haganah where I train and I have trained with the founder. Some good stuff there.

It would definitely be better to learn all the systems that make up Krav Maga, but I don't see how the average person could devote that much time and energy into martial arts.

I don't attend a typical Krav Maga school. We focus much more on Muay Thai and groundwork technique than most. My instructor is not just a Krav practitioner, so he values boxing skills and grappling to a much higher degree. My opinion may not count for much because our experiences with Krav Maga sound very different.

If your instructor has cross trained so much in other stuff like Muay Thai and BJJ and thats what hes teaching you, then youre out of the realm of normal Krav Maga. Im sure if this is the case what youre learning is superior. Ive been to some different Krav gyms, some of the ones in LA that are considered really good Krav gyms. Ive never seen a Krav instructor that I would consider a really skilled martial artist. They all look like crap. One year Muay Thai students are like 100 times better. Ill sum up again what I think Krav is. Its just some easy to learn stuff they slapped together so soldiers can learn fast. It might help you a little against someone untrained but when compared to highly regarded fighting styles like Muay Thai, Boxing, MMA, etc... its a steaming load of horse shit.

 

[bassboy]

If your instructor has cross trained so much in other stuff like Muay Thai and BJJ and thats what hes teaching you, then youre out of the realm of normal Krav Maga. Im sure if this is the case what youre learning is superior. Ive been to some different Krav gyms, some of the ones in LA that are considered really good Krav gyms. Ive never seen a Krav instructor that I would consider a really skilled martial artist. They all look like crap. One year Muay Thai students are like 100 times better. Ill sum up again what I think Krav is. Its just some easy to learn stuff they slapped together so soldiers can learn fast. It might help you a little against someone untrained but when compared to highly regarded fighting styles like Muay Thai, Boxing, MMA, etc... its a steaming load of horse shit.

Yea I agree with you.

Some of the defensive tactics in Krav Maga are solid though. The headlock defenses and chokes seem effective to me. The gun defenses and club defenses are solid. I like to learn those techniques (to add to the toolbox), but for me the most fun is Muay Thai.

I wouldn't want to learn just Muay Thai though because there are some situations Muay Thai doesn't address (chokes, headlocks etc..). I basically try and take advantage of everything offered at my school, including the grappling classes. It seems to be the best option to develop all around defense skills.

There isn't one system thats is going to be effective for all aspects/situations in self defense. Krav Maga is just a system incorporating different martial arts to try and accomplish that for IDF soldiers.

It isn't as basic as most people tend to think. Its just utilized in crash courses because you can learn the most in the least amount of time.

As far as providing a video of a Krav Maga street encounter I have never seen one. But Iv'e also never seen a video of a Muay Thai or BJJ guy in the streets either.

 

[Jooba]

Yea I agree with you.

Some of the defensive tactics in Krav Maga are solid though. The headlock defenses and chokes seem effective to me. The gun defenses and club defenses are solid. I like to learn those techniques (to add to the toolbox), but for me the most fun is Muay Thai.

I wouldn't want to learn just Muay Thai though because there are some situations Muay Thai doesn't address (chokes, headlocks etc..). I basically try and take advantage of everything offered at my school, including the grappling classes. It seems to be the best option to develop all around defense skills.

There isn't one system thats is going to be effective for all aspects/situations in self defense. Krav Maga is just a system incorporating different martial arts to try and accomplish that for IDF soldiers.

It isn't as basic as most people tend to think. Its just utilized in crash courses because you can learn the most in the least amount of time.

As far as providing a video of a Krav Maga street encounter I have never seen one. But Iv'e also never seen a video of a Muay Thai or BJJ guy in the streets either.

Ive never seen a Krav Maga street fight. Ive only seen one Muay Thai street fight, a friend. Other than that Ive only seen untrained chumps street fight in my life. Ive seen some untrained guys destroy people too lol. But I can say this for Muay Thai: it works. When I do start to add grappling into my routine, it will probably be wrestling and BJJ or something like that. I wanna be really really good at striking before I start training in grappling tho.

 

[Biggiebrother**]

Krav Maga can be effective BUT IT IS NOT MAGIC !

Remember Boxing, MMA and MT are sports BUT they give you the timing, distancing and other attributes necessary to deliver strikes effectively. YOu don't think a Pro MT fighter isn't better at kicking someone in the groin than someone who trains Krav Maga twice a week at the local youth centre ?

You teach a pro fighter how to attack targets lethally, then you will see effective.

 

[chemi242]

by the dead hamas you mean the ones that were hit with missiles whilst attending school right.

not those dead hamas the ones killed by the ground invasion

 

[Payak]

i have seen muay thai in action in thailand in the street, twice against street fighters, muay thai on muay thai, and muay thai on jkd.
the jkd guy was impressed as i could tell by the way he was moaning afterwards.

 

[Payak]

the ground invasion, correct me if im wrong but i thought the soldiers were using assault rifles not krav maga.
if any soldier gets caught without his rifle hes not a soldiers ass.