Is this accurate about electric cars?

[ralphc1]

That's really expensive!

It's about 10k to install 5kw systems in Australia and then you get about 3k back.

Also electricity is about double.

Who installed yours? Many places will give you that figure here in the US but when it comes down to the actual installation there are the hidden costs. I'm in Wisconsin at 45 degrees North latitude so for maximum efficiency, a system that tracks the sun is recommended.

Amazon has a 5000 watt grid tie do it yourself system for $11,900. You have to make certain that your local utility approves the components used to convert the DC to AC because they can introduce noise into the system.

If that system is approved and works as advertised, it would take just over 18 years to pay for it with no problems. At my age, I'm not likely to be alive long enough to see any benefit. Is the entire system warranted or just the solar panels? The inverter can cost over $1000 to replace.

Another consideration is how long you will be in the home. 13 years is the average so if the system won't pay for itself in that time, you aren't likely to recoup it when the property sells.

 

[Grassshoppa]

Damn TS got fucked up big time. Pretty much ran a train on the poor bastard

*sniff

 

[HIMBOB]

Oh yeah, that's why I said decades from now. It probably won't even be a measurable impact until at least 25% of our energy is coming from renewable sources.

When hard surfaces that aren't solar panels interrupt up the natural process of heat absorption, the heat still ends up dissipated out into the environment in the end. When solar panels do it a of the energy (as much as possible) is harnessed as electricity and converted into kinetic energy somewhere else. The energy is far more drastically altered than by someone's roof getting in the way.

We're switching from using potential/chemical energy from minerals to directly taking energy out of the environment and repurposing it. There will be some sort of effect in the future if/when we switch to mostly renewable energy. I'm genuinely curious to see what the effects will be and how large they will be.

A you would need under 2% of the Sahara covered in panels to power the world.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...essing-solar-energy-from-1-of-the-sahara/amp/

Figures vary but it they all agree it's tiny.



B, I don't believe your understanding of how panels affect heat absorption is correct. They don't take heat and destroy it, they use it. If they did totally destroy that heat it would be a good thing as it would help counter act the increased heat absorption due rising sea levels and deforestation.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

A you would need under 2% of the Sahara covered in panels to power the world.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...essing-solar-energy-from-1-of-the-sahara/amp/

Figures vary but it they all agree it's tiny.



B, I don't believe your understanding of how panels affect heat absorption is correct. They don't take heat and destroy it, they use it. If they did totally destroy that heat it would be a good thing as it would help counter act the increased heat absorption due rising sea levels and deforestation.

I don't believe that covering 2% of the Sahara would power the world. Maybe covering an equivalent land mass with panels spread out all over the world would work. There is no way that the whole world would be powered from a single location.

I didn't say that they destroy it. The panels absorb energy from the light to induce a voltage and generate electricity. The heat isn't "destroyed" but it does essentially go away when the energy from the light creates electricity which in turn creates kinetic energy somewhere else, like a fan in my living room. The energy powering my fan would have been deposited somewhere else through heat transfer. Some of it will end up being given off as thermal energy in other places, like the errors and my fan's motor, but as much of it as possible is converted into kinetic energy

I work in a power plant. I have a decent understand of energy conversion and the generation of electricity.

 

[HIMBOB]

Who installed yours? Many places will give you that figure here in the US but when it comes down to the actual installation there are the hidden costs. I'm in Wisconsin at 45 degrees North latitude so for maximum efficiency, a system that tracks the sun is recommended.

Amazon has a 5000 watt grid tie do it yourself system for $11,900. You have to make certain that your local utility approves the components used to convert the DC to AC because they can introduce noise into the system.

If that system is approved and works as advertised, it would take just over 18 years to pay for it with no problems. At my age, I'm not likely to be alive long enough to see any benefit. Is the entire system warranted or just the solar panels? The inverter can cost over $1000 to replace.

Another consideration is how long you will be in the home. 13 years is the average so if the system won't pay for itself in that time, you aren't likely to recoup it when the property sells.

Quotes for a place I bid on but didn't get, quotes for a mates place and install at a colleagues house.

Tracking systems are pretty rare in Australia has they aren't cost effective.
Figures quoted are the average install so exclude the majority of unsuitable houses (south facing or sun blocked roofs).

Warranty on the panels for 20y, rest is usually like a year or two. That's about all you need unless you have tracking.

My colleague spent just under 7k and saved over $600 from his first quarterly bill. Summer quarter in a hot summer.

Have you got quotes for non tracked panels?

 

[rj144]

A you would need under 2% of the Sahara covered in panels to power the world.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www...essing-solar-energy-from-1-of-the-sahara/amp/

Figures vary but it they all agree it's tiny.



B, I don't believe your understanding of how panels affect heat absorption is correct. They don't take heat and destroy it, they use it. If they did totally destroy that heat it would be a good thing as it would help counter act the increased heat absorption due rising sea levels and deforestation.

I agree with you in general, but they do remove heat. Heat is a form or energy. Some heat energy is used by solar.

 

[HIMBOB]

I don't believe that covering 2% of the Sahara would power the world. Maybe covering an equivalent land mass with panels spread out all over the world would work. There is no way that the whole world would be powered from a single location.

I didn't say that they destroy it. The panels absorb energy from the light to induce a voltage and generate electricity. The heat isn't "destroyed" but it does essentially go away when the energy from the light creates electricity which in turn creates kinetic energy somewhere else, like a fan in my living room. The energy powering my fan would have been deposited somewhere else through heat transfer. Some of it will end up being given off as thermal energy in other places, like the errors and my fan's motor, but as much of it as possible is converted into kinetic energy

I work in a power plant. I have a decent understand of energy conversion and the generation of electricity.

Of course not one centralised source it was just a display of how much of the earth would need to be covered.
It's about 1% of 1% of the globe. So about 1% of man made surface area. Or in layman's terms sweet Fuck all.



I still don't understand your concern about heat absorption. How does a solar panel afffect temperature absorption compared to similar sized dark roof tile? Or perhaps more pertinent ocean instead of ice.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Here's a tip -

If you receive information about some sort of hidden truth that someone doesn't want you knowing in the form of a chain email, always start with the default assumption that it's a troll job or ignorant bullshit. You'll be right at least 95% of the time. Maybe 99-100%.

Credible information appears on reputable websites or dead-tree formats.
Garbage gets digitally passed from gullible moron to gullible moron in urgent emails that beg you to "share with all your friends!".

Wait a minute. Are you telling me I could have been saying “merry Christmas” all these years and not had s suicide bomber kill me immediately? Because that’s what the email I read told me.

 

[HIMBOB]

I agree with you in general, but they do remove heat. Heat is a form or energy. Some heat energy is used by solar.

Any change in structure or reflective surface (colour) will result in different heat absorption properties. Totally agree. What I dont see or understand is what would make solar different enough to make this a valid concern.

Additionally his concern seems to be that this would result in a cooling affect which would be beneficial and help compensate for deforestation and increases in ocean surface area.

Kinda seems like a person worrying about a freckle (which is in fact a bit of dirt) while he ignores his gangrenous leg.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Of course not one centralised source it was just a display of how much of the earth would need to be covered.
It's about 1% of 1% of the globe. So about 1% of man made surface area. Or in layman's terms sweet Fuck all.



I still don't understand your concern about heat absorption. How does a solar panel afffect temperature absorption compared to similar sized dark roof tile? Or perhaps more pertinent ocean instead of ice.

I don't know if it would have any appreciable effect on the world, but the difference is that a lot of the energy deposited in the solar panel is converted into other forms of energy and used elsewhere, rather than simply being dispersed to the surrounding environment as it is in the other scenarios you laid out.

I have no idea if there will be a noticeable impact due to it. It's certainly possible that the sun shits out enough energy to the Earth that we won't use enough for it to matter. Powering EVERYTHING seems like a lot, though.

 

[HIMBOB]

I don't know if it would have any appreciable effect on the world, but the difference is that a lot of the energy deposited in the solar panel is converted into other forms of energy and used elsewhere, rather than simply being dispersed to the surrounding environment as it is in the other scenarios you laid out.

I have no idea if there will be a noticeable impact due to it. It's certainly possible that the sun shits out enough energy to the Earth that we won't use enough for it to matter. Powering EVERYTHING seems like a lot, though.

High end panels are about 25% efficient.

So now we are worrying about 1/4 of 1% of 1% loss of heat absorption in the earth.

Personally I am more worried about the actual 45% increase in CO2, a the real 3% increase in global temperature than I am about a potential 1/40,000 decrease in heat absorption.

 

[ralphc1]

Quotes for a place I bid on but didn't get, quotes for a mates place and install at a colleagues house.

Tracking systems are pretty rare in Australia has they aren't cost effective.
Figures quoted are the average install so exclude the majority of unsuitable houses (south facing or sun blocked roofs).

Warranty on the panels for 20y, rest is usually like a year or two. That's about all you need unless you have tracking.

My colleague spent just under 7k and saved over $600 from his first quarterly bill. Summer quarter in a hot summer.

Have you got quotes for non tracked panels?

Yes, over two years ago they wanted $15,000 for the system installed. Glad I didn't do it because that company is out of business now with a bunch of lawsuits. The systems didn't produce as they promised. The power company has a solar farm customers can buy into. I might check that out.

So many panel manufacturers went belly up in the last 2 years. Nobody left to cover the warranties which leaves the installers in a bad position.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

High end panels are about 25% efficient.

So now we are worrying about 1/4 of 1% of 1% loss of heat absorption in the earth.

Personally I am more worried about the actual 45% increase in CO2, a the real 3% increase in global temperature than I am about a potential 1/40,000 decrease in heat absorption.

I never said that I am opposed to using solar power (I'm not), only that I'm interested in seeing what effects it will have. You seem really determined to put me in an opposition camp that I'm not in.

You don't need to convince me that burning stuff is bad for the environment.

 

[HIMBOB]

Yes, over two years ago they wanted $15,000 for the system installed. Glad I didn't do it because that company is out of business now with a bunch of lawsuits. The systems didn't produce as they promised. The power company has a solar farm customers can buy into. I might check that out.

So many panel manufacturers went belly up in the last 2 years. Nobody left to cover the warranties which leaves the installers in a bad position.

Might be worth getting a new quote. Panels are now only about 30-40% of total costs so while they will get cheaper total cost has much less room to fall.

I buy renewable through a supplier which environmentally is good I don't get the cheaper prices or energy security benefits

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I heard that the process of manufacturing the batteries for those things produces an insane amount of emissions.

 

[HIMBOB]

I never said that I am opposed to using solar power (I'm not), only that I'm interested in seeing what effects it will have. You seem really determined to put me in an opposition camp that I'm not in.

You don't need to convince me that burning stuff is bad for the environment.

Not trying to convince you of anything besides that heat absorption losses caused by solar is a non issue.

Sorry if I seem overly confrontational, it's just I get tired of the amount of misinformation out there.

 

[HIMBOB]

I heard that the process of manufacturing the batteries for those things produces an insane amount of emissions.

It's not the manufacture it's the lithium mining. Shit is dirty. Real dirty.

Most assessments say it's still a net positive environmentally but not all.

My opinion is that it's a net win for the environment. Mainly because the pollution is miniscule in size and can actually be contained.

 

[therealdope]

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they’re being shoved down our throats.

LOL - what? Sure, I'd rather generate all of that heat by running an internal combustion engine and then leave the motor running when idling, and don't bother with regenerative braking.