International Israel vs. Palestine Discussion- War of 2014, v2: Israel Withdraws from Gaza

[lfd0311]

you're right...good post

Especially when you consider that the Marionite Christians in Lebanon were who the Muslims and Hezbollah were fighting in the 80's during that civil war, and Christians continue to be abused in that country today... Other than that it's a good post...

 

[lfd0311]

How exactly are these groups a threat to the US, granted we are not siding with Israel?

Familiarize yourself with the Muslim Belief structure if you don't understand by now. I've explained it, you clearly still don't get it. I'm not going to explain it agian for you to just ask me agian in another page or two.

 

[Rod1]

They may have. We do a lot of business with Saudi Arabia. Hezbollah and Saudi Arabia aren't exactly drinking buddies.
I mean, we meddle in the ME so damn much.

But Lebanese had a long history of coexistence without radicalization until the influx of palestinians into Lebanon

Uh... wut?

Bad phrasing.

I mean there are no terrorist group that doesnt targets the west because they are targeting Israel.

The supposed argument is that there are thosaunds of terrorists groups targeting Israel and that without Israel those terrorists groups would turn their eyes to the west.

This is completely false, Israel is a tiny country with little terrorism besides Hamas and Hezbollah, the vast majority of muslim terrorism is against muslims, and those that attack the west do so over Israel.

 

[Jukai]

But Lebanese had a long history of coexistence without radicalization until the influx of palestinians into Lebanon




Bad phrasing.

I mean there are no terrorist group that doesnt targets the west because they are targeting Israel.

The supposed argument is that there are thosaunds of terrorists groups targeting Israel and that without Israel those terrorists groups would turn their eyes to the west.

This is completely false, Israel is a tiny country with little terrorism besides Hamas and Hezbollah, the vast majority of muslim terrorism is against muslims, and those that attack the west do so over Israel.

Believe or don't believe it, but Osama Bin Laden said he decided to launch a major attack against America because of all the bases we put in Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm. Nothing to do with Israel there.

 

[Rod1]

Especially when you consider that the Marionite Christians in Lebanon were who the Muslims and Hezbollah were fighting in the 80's during that civil war, and Christians continue to be abused in that country today... Other than that it's a good post...

Dude you wouldnt had been able to find Lebanon on the map before this post, probably didnt knew it was a country and now you are an expert?

The radicalization of Lebanon and the subsequent sectarian war had crimes from all sides, even the christians who were the dominant group before the civil war commited massacres, look at the karantina massacre.

Also it wasnt Hezbollah which started the war, neither were the Shia, it was the radicalization brought by dispossesed palestinian refugees. In fact Syria, ruled by Alawites (Shia) sided with the christians against the palestinians.

 

[Rod1]

Believe or don't believe it, but Osama Bin Laden said he decided to launch a major attack against America because of all the bases we put in Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm. Nothing to do with Israel there.

Yes, thats what i said.

Let me phrase it again

There are terrorist groups against Israel

There are terrorist groups against the west.

What there are not is

Terrorist groups against the west, that decided to attack Israel instead of the west (AKA Israel serving as a buffer to terrorism).

When i said over Israel i meant as they prioritize the west over Israel.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

I'm going to take a shot at not breaking up your post on this one Nicky, we'll see how this goes.

No, the creation of Israel was not an act of war. If that was true, Egypt would have been at war with the UN, not with Israel. Egypt crossed into the Gaza/west bank area with the express permission of the English under the express stipulation that they were there to help maintain order and to leave Israel alone. Instead, they immediately attacked Israel.

In 1967, Israel launched a pre emptive attack on what was plainly an Egyptian staging point for an assault on Israel

thanks for not breaking up my post!

1. yes it was an act of war, not only by the un but israel itself. if the un decided tomorrow china now owned half of america and the chinese started taking american homes and land at gun point, pretty sure we would see that as an act of war. further, they didn't immediately attack israel, it was after deir yassin that everything went to shit because the jews were ethnically cleansing the area. they needed a jewish majority to have a jewish state, that wasnt going to magically happen.

2. you are making an assumption, israel had its military ready as well, so if egypt attacked first could they too claim it was defensive? of coursse not. you can't, and i say this absolutely, launch a pre emptive strike and claim it was defensive.

3. like i said, israel started this while nightmare and continue on to this day.

 

[Hollywood Nicky]

So lfd is saying if Israel didnt exist then there would have been more terrorism directed at the U.S in the last 60 years?

i hope this isn't what he's saying, we didn't have enemies in the middle east before israel. the first country to recognize america was a middle eastern country.

 

[Jukai]

Yes, thats what i said.

Let me phrase it again

There are terrorist groups against Israel

There are terrorist groups against the west.

What there are not is

Terrorist groups against the west, that decided to attack Israel instead of the west (AKA Israel serving as a buffer to terrorism).

When i said over Israel i meant as they prioritize the west over Israel.

OHHHHHHHHHHH

uhhhhhhhhh

I more or less agree.

 

[Jukai]

how do villagers with no army or way to stop them, "let" in armed troops?

how could they have stopped them?

i swear to god you fucking make excuses for anything that horrid apartheid state does.

They don't stop them. The Palestinian life sucks, man. They couldn't refuse the Jordinian army, but they paid the price by the Israelis. It's an awful situation. I don't turn it into a "Jews are evil" thing like you do, though.

 

[Muay o Muay]

i hope this isn't what he's saying, we didn't have enemies in the middle east before israel. the first country to recognize america was a middle eastern country.

well he seems to have quite suddenly bailed the thread if that says anything.....

 

[Madmick]

So having Abbas take over the West Bank and not making it an open prison is caving to extortion? Good points from your neutral poster madmick.

Pathetic.

 

[weed]

Wait, are people actually denying the fact that our, the US', relationship with Israel doesn't earn us hatred from the Arab world?

 

[weed]

Collective discussion ftw.

 

[Jumpy]

I'm betting les than the $3B the US gives to Israel EVERY YEAR.
S

Do we give them cash, or just weapons and ammunition? Or a mixture of all three?

 

[Ishaq]

Zionist terrorist and Israeli military advisor claims there is no such thing as an innocent civilian Gaza.

We are seeing now that despite the IDF's impressive fighting, despite the absolute military supremacy, we are in a sort of "strategic tie."

What would have been the right thing to do? We should have declared war against the state of Gaza (rather than against the Hamas organization), and in a war as in a war. The moment it begins, the right thing to do is to shut down the crossings, prevent the entry of any goods, including food, and definitely prevent the supply of gas and electricity.

You probably have two questions now. First, why should Gaza's residents suffer? Well, they are to blame for this situation just like Germany's residents were to blame for electing Hitler as their leader and paid a heavy price for that, and rightfully so.

Hamas is not a terror organization which came from afar and forcibly occupied Gaza. It's the authentic representative of the population there. It rose to power following democratic elections and built an impressive military ability with the residents' support. Its power base has remained stable despite the suffering.

The second question is about the international legitimacy. The answer is simple: Israel was willing and is still willing to reach a real ceasefire at any moment. The Gazans' suffering is not the result of the Israeli pressure but of their support, through their elected government, for an armed struggle. This suffering could instantly if they accept a ceasefire.

Because we want to be compassionate towards those cruel people, we are committing to act cruelly towards the really compassionate people

 

[berimBOWLoh]

Do we give them cash, or just weapons and ammunition? Or a mixture of all three?

cash that must be spend on American weapons/ammo/training etc.

Also ppl talking like 3 billion a year is going to build some super army. Thats about the same as Phillipines spends a year on their military.


Basically, its a drop in the bucket. Yet many around here act as if America is the only reason Israel has any $ for a strong military. Its a joke.

 

[Ishaq]

cash that must be spend on American weapons/ammo/training etc.

Also ppl talking like 3 billion a year is going to build some super army. Thats about the same as Phillipines spends a year on their military.


Basically, its a drop in the bucket. Yet many around here act as if America is the only reason Israel has any $ for a strong military. Its a joke.

If it weren't for American military and political support, Israel wouldn't be so brazen in its apartheid and killing.

That veto at the UN is worth more than the $3 billion dollars it uses to inflict terror.

 

[Rod1]

cash that must be spend on American weapons/ammo/training etc.

Also ppl talking like 3 billion a year is going to build some super army. Thats about the same as Phillipines spends a year on their military.


Basically, its a drop in the bucket. Yet many around here act as if America is the only reason Israel has any $ for a strong military. Its a joke.

5% of your total government budget is not a drop in the bucket.

And its not only money, its also technology transfer which saved Israel millions to be spent in reverse engineering and developing their military, thats why China which spends far more than Israel doesnt has such an advanced military.

 

[Rod1]

If it weren't for American military and political support, Israel wouldn't be so brazen in its apartheid and killing.

That veto at the UN is worth more than the $3 billion dollars it uses to inflict terror.

This, its not that American aid its what lifts Israel, but its American aid and diplomatic support what allows Israel to continue the occupation.

Just look at US congressmen scrambling to send more millions to Israel to replace the rockets of iron dome.