Elections It has begun: Russia is already interfering with the U.S. elections

Blayt7hh said:
Yeah of course… Russia is among the best at cyber warfare
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Russia hacked the Irish medical system some years ago. Ireland were so unprepared the hackers felt sorry for them and gave them the access codes. They still couldn't solve it.

Anyway, my point is there are any number of power outages/train disruptions that are being fobbed off as glitches when they could be hacks. In this case Ireland is a major communication hub between the US and the EU. If they managed to shut down an entire medical system and only got found out due to incompotence it's difficult to pinpoint what they are getting away with.
 
giusti825 said:
If the Russians say "the sky is blue," the color of the sky doesn't change just because a Russian pointed out the obvious.
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Right, but the color of the sky is something we can verify, and we don't have to trust the Russian gov't.

It's not rational to believe something because you hear it from Russian gov't sources, while you seem to think that anything we hear from the Russian gov't is unquestionably true. This why you routinely try to justify atrocities and oppression all over the world. It's an interesting look at how intellectual rot also leads to moral rot (and of course we see the opposite regularly here).
 
ViD said:
This is interesting, just a few months after it was proven the Russian collusion was a BS and Russian election interference came down to the Facebook Ads, the narrative is back

www.nbcnews.com

Russia’s 2024 election interference has already begun

Moscow is spreading disinformation about Joe Biden and other Democrats to lessen U.S. military aid to Ukraine and U.S. support for NATO, former U.S. officials and cyber experts say.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Do you believe Russia is truly capable of interfering?
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Of course they are, it's ongoing and doesn't just start with the election. China too.
 
HomeCheese said:
Of course they are, it's ongoing and doesn't just start with the election. China too.
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Also, the key aspect wasn't FB ads but hacking and dissemination of private communications. And now it's come out that this whole Biden took bribes from Ukraine story that the House GOP has been obsessed with is lies on behalf of Russian intelligence.
 
Rod1 said:
Because "Russia cares for peace".

Thanks for being honest though, there won't be any peace as long as Russia is winning, therefore the best way to ensure peace is to make Russia lose.
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Obviously they want peace without the security threat that allowing Ukraine to join NATO would present to them.

Your logic here is a bit ridiculous. The same could be said of any war, invasion or occupation. Should the US leave Syria to prove their commitment to peace? Should the US stop funding the Ukrainians to ensure they go to the negotiating table? Should the US remove bases from Iraq as the Iraqi government has asked for on multiple occasions.

Where are the principles? Or is any action always a moral or ethical action was long as you like the people talking that action?
 
Jack V Savage said:
Right, but the color of the sky is something we can verify, and we don't have to trust the Russian gov't.

It's not rational to believe something because you hear it from Russian gov't sources, while you seem to think that anything we hear from the Russian gov't is unquestionably true. This why you routinely try to justify atrocities and oppression all over the world. It's an interesting look at how intellectual rot also leads to moral rot (and of course we see the opposite regularly here).
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What in my post..... In my premises or conclusions hasn't been verified? The stories aren't only reported in Russian media.

The Boris Johnson trip and it's purpose were covered by ukrainian news sources.

The Minsk accords can be read online anytime someone wishes. Almost all of the statements made in my previous post are no longer even considered controversial in Western media. I was just ahead of corporate media because I watch more honest journalists whose companies aren't taking money from the weapons companies.
 
Strange I thought our elections are perfectly secure. That is what I keep hearing from leftists about the last one. It was like totally legit. So which is it?
 
giusti825 said:
Obviously they want peace without the security threat that allowing Ukraine to join NATO would present to them.
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They will only want peace when they are losing, those were your words.
 
Rod1 said:
They will only want peace when they are losing, those were your words.
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Never said that at all. The Russians have been saying since before the special military operation began that they are always open to peace talks.

Hell, there was a peace deal signed by the diplomats in March 2022 that Zelensky backed out of. Ukraine got the best deal they could've possibly gotten back then.

They Russian government wants realistic terms for negotiations. Ukraine is acting like their negotiating position got stronger even though they've lost 20% of their land and only lose more every week.
 
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giusti825 said:
Your logic here is a bit ridiculous. The same could be said of any war, invasion or occupation.
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Which is a good reason to be broadly against war, with only very particular and extreme circumstances being justifications. Everyone who doesn't have their heads up their asses knows that Russia has no such thing.
 
giusti825 said:
The Russians have been saying since before the special military operation began that they are always open to peace talks.
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They're open to peace deals that get them what they want, like anyone would be. The point is that the concession Ukraine would have to make would constitute crimes against humanity, which is why all offers thus far have been non-starters. And it's a war, not a special military operation.
 
giusti825 said:
Never said that at all. The Russians have been saying since before the special military operation began that they are always open to peace talks.

Hell, there was a peace deal signed by the diplomats in March 2022 that Zelensky backed out of. Ukraine got the best deal they could've possibly gotten back then.

They Russian government wants realistic terms for negotiations. Ukraine is acting like their negotiating position got stronger even though they've lost 20% of their land and only lose more every week.
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giusti825 said:
Never said that at all. The Russians have been saying since before the special military operation began that they are always open to peace talks.
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You said "why would Russia negotiate when they are winning", this implies that Russia only negotiates while losing.

giusti825 said:
Hell, there was a peace deal signed by the diplomats in March 2022 that Zelensky backed out of. Ukraine got the best deal they could've possibly gotten back then.
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Yes, the peace deal that required Ukraine to disarm and had no security guarantees whatsoever.

giusti825 said:
They Russian government wants realistic terms for negotiations. Ukraine is acting like their negotiating position got stronger even though they've lost 20% of their land and only lose more every week.
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Russia is acting like they are at the gates of Kyiv, Russia has gained land at the cost of blood, but that doesn't means they can dictate terms of surrender.
 
Rod1 said:
You said "why would Russia negotiate when they are winning", this implies that Russia only negotiates while losing.


Yes, the peace deal that required Ukraine to disarm and had no security guarantees whatsoever.


Russia is acting like they are at the gates of Kyiv, Russia has gained land at the cost of blood, but that doesn't means they can dictate terms of surrender.
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No..... You can read my original post. I said "why would Russia retreat if they are winning." They have been open to negotiations since long before February 2022.

First there was the Minsk accords, which Ukraine violated. Then, they had proposed a treaty to keep NATO out of Ukraine with the stated goal of avoiding the need to invade. Then, a month after the invasion, diplomats from Russia and Ukraine met in Turkey and agreed on a long term peace deal which Ukraine reneged on.

The peace deal that was negotiated in Turkey included robust security guarantees for Ukraine, so your information there is just factually incorrect. Ukraine is today in a far worse bargaining position than they were back then and are only going to see less favorable terms the longer this drags out.

Russia was looking to negotiate a long-term peace solution since 2015. Russia now has the manpower advantage, the weaponry advantage, the tactical advantage and the economic advantage. Ukraine stands to easily lose more than they have to gain by fighting this war to the very last man.

Their stated goal is to take back all land including Crimea. I don't want my tax money going to unwinnable wars for delusional allies. If they want to keep fighting, they should pay for it themselves.
 
ocfightfan said:
Strange I thought our elections are perfectly secure. That is what I keep hearing from leftists about the last one. It was like totally legit. So which is it?
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Yea that’s what I thought, I heard that a lot in 2020. Meanwhile in 2024
 
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