Law Judge rules that banning illegal immigrants from carrying arms violates their 2nd amendment

[Rod1]

Libtard, second amendment is only for US citizens.

The left only doesn't want whites to have guns. But illegal aliens..no problem! It's as though the left is not satisfied till America is destroyed.

Since 14th it applies to everyone under US jurisdiction it also applies to the States.

Before it only limited federal government and did not apply to slaves

 

[Gutter Chris]

Care to give an example of give lose a mile?

A lot of the nfa and the fact those restrictions don't seem good enough for a lot of people.

Almost everything California new York Massachusetts and a few others have done with gun laws in their states

 

[DEVILsSON]

Care to give an example of give lose a mile?

Gun roster. Essentially unless manufacturers go through some convoluted process, newer/safer guns cannot be sold in CA. This in turn creates an issue where very basic guns like glocks (4th and 5th generation) sell for 2,3, 4 times what they should. These newer safer guns can only be bought from current law enforcement officers/agents or private party sales.

Until recently due to case law, many counties outright banned concealed carry licenses. Essentially only the few connected politicians and rich people got them in areas like Bay Area. This was horseshit because even previously employed law enforcement officers who did not retire (to get LEOSA privileges) could not get CCW. This sucked because being able to carry CCW allows for much higher compensation in private security(barely above minimum wage vs above 6 figures). Now it's a six month or more process of jumping through various hoops and then they can still revoke the permit for many stupid reasons(see homeowner in LA who defended himself against a literal home invasion robbery with guns and multiple suspects).

CA has 10 day waiting period for any firearm allowed firearm. Why? If I have 5 other firearms, what is the purpose to have me wait 10 days before I can collect my newly purchased firearm? Background check is literally near instantaneous.

Before recent court decision you had to ship ammo to FFLs and pay additional fees.

Essentially what Democrats have done is make gun ownership needlessly expensive (pricing people out from their constitutional right) and unpleasant. Imagine if the other bill of rights guarantees were that burdensome and only the wealthy could fully make use of them(still somewhat the case with legal system etc but not to this extent)...

 

[Mack Yancy]

Libtard, second amendment is only for US citizens.

The left only doesn't want whites to have guns. But illegal aliens..no problem! It's as though the left is not satisfied till America is destroyed.

Don't you mean americans to have guns.
@Ares Black @N13 @mkess101

Note the slip up.

 

[nhbbear]

This is what I am wondering. Having recently purchased guns in PA, there are multiple questions you have to answer about being an immigrant/illegal alien before the whole background check/purchase of the gun. I haven't bothered reading the 200 plus posts on this but do people think you can just walk into a gun store and buy a gun without doing any of that? This sounds like the same fear mongering crap about illegal aliens voting.

I haven’t purchased a gun in PA for probably 20 years-a beretta storm cx-4 .40 carbine. I filled out the same form, provided id, and walked out with it since it was considered a long gun.

Yet, make no mistake, this ruling is not in support of the 2A, it is to fuck with people angry about millions of illegals being here and overrunning cities, especially cities where there are overly stringent gun laws like NYC Chicago and DC. Let’s wait until one of those districts have to deal with an illegal with a gun-they won’t know which way to go.

 

[nhbbear]

Definitely seems like a bummer, doesn’t it?

This is the logical consequence of the SCOTUS decisions that conservatives cheered.
—They expanded the 2A to an “individual right” in 2008, that encompassed privately owned weapons in the home for self defense. I thought they were wrong, the conservatives cheered.
—They expanded that to carrying a weapon in public and made it much tougher for states to regulate in 2010. I disagrees, conservatives cheered.
—They gave private owners carrying publicly a new level of protection in 2022. I disagreed, conservatives cheered,

So here we are. This is the logical conclusion of falsely believing the 2A is an individual right. There’s nothing about citizenship in the text of the 2A; and undocumented immigrants have plenty of rights when they’re here (1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendment rights for sure).

TLDR: The conservatives on the SCOTUS have payed stupid games with the 2A since 2008, and we all just won a stupid prize.

We will see how well the id that says “migrant shelter” as a home address goes for getting a gun for an illegal. I had to provide several forms of id, including my police id, and I still had to provide bills in my name, etc.

 

[BFoe]

We will see how well the id that says “migrant shelter” as a home address goes for getting a gun for an illegal. I had to provide several forms of id, including my police id, and I still had to provide bills in my name, etc.

In my experience though (living in Arizona) they often have home addresses.

Don’t worry though—to me, the SCOTUS hasn’t had much logic or consistency amongst these various 2A cases they’ve decided. I’m sure this decision will get appealed to SCOTUS and they’ll find some nonsensical way to wriggle out of it.

 

[spamking]

Contrary to popular belief, illegals are also humans that come from societies that also keep records.

Regardless of what records they have . . . . According to the ATF's FFL newsletter discussing the sale of firearms to aliens, the illegal alien is a person who has entered the country illegally, and who has not received permission to enter or stay in the United States or his/her permission to stay in the country has expired. Such persons cannot purchase firearms or ammunition under any circumstances.

But I guess all that goes out the window now . . .

 

[spamking]

If only this would lead to the complete obliteration of the NFA . . . .

 

[Belaya Smert]

Immigrants do have the right of self protection by arms. everybody does by virtue of their birth in this county. I mean we are treating them better than US citizens at this point might as well get them a stipend to procure firearms and ammo. Assuming the Waldorf Astoria allows that type of thing.

 

[Rational Poster]

Regardless of what records they have . . . . According to the ATF's FFL newsletter discussing the sale of firearms to aliens, the illegal alien is a person who has entered the country illegally, and who has not received permission to enter or stay in the United States or his/her permission to stay in the country has expired. Such persons cannot purchase firearms or ammunition under any circumstances.

But I guess all that goes out the window now . . .

I think that legal and constitutional precedent trump an ATF newsletter.

And I'm pretty sure you of all people would agree.

 

[HockeyBjj]

Also since this invalidates form 422.

Let's see how this decision plays out in helping support overturning other parts of that form. If this goes to the Supreme Court ( and I hope it does) let's see what happens.

The fallout from this should be interesting.

See 12c

Yeah. That question, and enforcement of it, is what the judge found unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment standard set in 2022 with New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen

Unless this is overturned or stayed, ATF will have to remove that question from their form

 

[spamking]

I think that legal and constitutional precedent trump an ATF newsletter.

And I'm pretty sure you of all people would agree.

I was just simply providing the guidance give to FFLs from the agency that issues our licenses and conducts reviews of our records.

Of course I agree.

 

[spamking]

So, how about those background checks the rest of us have to do? Does that apply to them?

There is guidance from 2008 about this . . . .

 

[spamking]

That’s my understanding (I’m still trying to get ahold of the full copy of the ruling). The case was specifically about Title 18, a federal law that prohibits undocumented immigrants from owning weapons. This judge ruled that is unconstitutional, in light of SCOTUS’s decision in Bruen.

This particular undocumented immigrant had no prior history of firearms crimes and said they he purchased the firearm solely to protect himself and property during the time of the “civil unrest” in 2020. You’d think he’d have more right wing support around here.

Dude has my support . . .

 

[spamking]

Definitely seems like a bummer, doesn’t it?

This is the logical consequence of the SCOTUS decisions that conservatives cheered.
—They expanded the 2A to an “individual right” in 2008, that encompassed privately owned weapons in the home for self defense. I thought they were wrong, the conservatives cheered.
—They expanded that to carrying a weapon in public and made it much tougher for states to regulate in 2010. I disagrees, conservatives cheered.
—They gave private owners carrying publicly a new level of protection in 2022. I disagreed, conservatives cheered,

So here we are. This is the logical conclusion of falsely believing the 2A is an individual right. There’s nothing about citizenship in the text of the 2A; and undocumented immigrants have plenty of rights when they’re here (1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th Amendment rights for sure).

TLDR: The conservatives on the SCOTUS have payed stupid games with the 2A since 2008, and we all just won a stupid prize.

I don't really get all of the concern. Most of the illegals are just here seeking a better life and are less of an issue than the known felons who are actual citizens committing violent crimes with firearms.

This is actually a huge win for 2A advocates. So I'll take it.

 

[spamking]

Also since this invalidates form 422.

Let's see how this decision plays out in helping support overturning other parts of that form. If this goes to the Supreme Court ( and I hope it does) let's see what happens.

The fallout from this should be interesting.

See 12c

It either basically invalidates the 4473 or supports the notion that there is nothing wrong with private sales . . . or maybe both.

 

[KOPPE]

Libtard, second amendment is only for US citizens.

The left only doesn't want whites to have guns. But illegal aliens..no problem! It's as though the left is not satisfied till America is destroyed.

The Second Amendment doesn't grant the right to keep and bear arms, it is only restricting the government and Nazis like you from infringing on that right.
Plus, you live in Canada this doesn't even concern you.

 

[spamking]

Yeah. That question, and enforcement of it, is what the judge found unconstitutional per the 2nd amendment standard set in 2022 with New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen

Unless this is overturned or stayed, ATF will have to remove that question from their form

I didn't think Bruen applied to criminals? Which wouldn't an illegal immigrant = a criminal?

 

[HockeyBjj]

I didn't think Bruen applied to criminals? Which wouldn't an illegal immigrant = a criminal?

Only specific misdemeanors apply to gun law, a person can have misdemeanor trespassing or misdemeanor reckless endangerment on their criminal history and still pass a background check and legally buy a gun

I believe that’s what’s happening here. Illegal entry or over staying a visa or failure to appear for asylum court aren’t felonies.

I plan on reading the Bruen decision in more detail later.