Last night's fight = Proof that Fedor time Pride HW Division was vastly superior to modern UFC HW

[AfroBanana]

fighters now are far more evolved than those guys. back then, getting mounted meant the fight was about to be over. that’s the reason commentators like rogan still make “oh he has full mount” a big deal when 99% of fighters get half guard back or find another way to sweep/scramble from there. it used to mean the end of the fight most of the time. fighters didn’t escape submissions as often, the fundamentals of striking are far better now.

it’s less competitive than it was then, and you still have some low level ufc HW’s for sure (regardless of era) but the elites now shit on the elites of fedor’s era.

It was like watching Ronda compete. It was too easy to catch defenseless one dimensional fighters in basic submissions. It was perfectly fine and made sense at the time that’s just how it was. But yes todays fighters even if you think they’re boring, that’s part of the reason. You just can’t Fedor / Ronda your way through competition so easily where only a few top guys had the skills to defend. It was fun to watch at the time it’s just different today.

 

[Number11]

You guys never cease to amaze me with how sad your Pride nostalgia lives are.

You will get older, develop references with age, you will get there or die before

 

[quebert]

Lots of angry Millenials and Zoomers in here angry that they missed out on the greatness of the Pride Heavyweight Division and are stuck to watching the UFC Crap Heavyweight Division of today.

And watching old footage is not the same.

Sorry, but ya'll missed out.

Somebody who wasn't around for Pride that watches it for the first time today has an advantage as they have current MMA to compare it to. I grew up on Atari 2600 and NES, as much as I loved video games in the 80's with a few exceptions they're not anything close to modern games. Back then they were OMGWTFBBQ great to me but when I play them now while I still enjoy them, most of that is nostalgia.

Pride had some amazing fights for sure, and they also had 2 of their top stars fight a pro wrestler with zero MMA fights. Also, we got awesome rematches like Fedor vs Coleman II. Because they clearly needed to run it back after the 1st fight that lasted all of what 60 seconds.

As much as it pains me to say it, if Bones Vs Gane happened in Pride and ended just the same, I wouldn't be surprised if they set up a rematch for absolutely no reason.

Also there's multiple Pride fighters who have commented on fixed fights. According to weirdos Bones Vs Gane was fixed, but UFC doesn't have any known fixed fights.

 

[My Spot]

What does a pro wrestling promotion like Pride have to do with MMA?

 

[SG123]

Yeah, current generation of HWs isn't remotely close to the level of the Pride era. Impossible to argue otherwise.

 

[Tweak896]

How superior technique is related to doping? Its actually the opposite here, UFC brought about the new breed silliness, WWE fighters. Pride HW were skilled martial artists/competitive wrestlers

The game has evolved. It's not totally superior technique, grappling especially. Those were days where it was almost an advantage to be on your back because if you were good at armbars you would sub them from the bottom. I disagree a fighter like Big Nog would be able to pull off as many submissions in modern mma as he did in pride. Most guys barely trained defense back then and didn't know body positions that were safe. We still see submissions today but nothing like back then. As far as striking there is much more footwork today that wasn't quite there back in Pride. I love pride I've been here a long time, but Pride was a 2 dimensional version of MMA, where the guys today have gyms that blend in all disciplines.

 

[lsa]

LOL
The butt hurt the last days has been amazing.

 

[Number11]

The game has evolved. It's not totally superior technique, grappling especially. Those were days where it was almost an advantage to be on your back because if you were good at armbars you would sub them from the bottom. I disagree a fighter like Big Nog would be able to pull off as many submissions in modern mma as he did in pride. Most guys barely trained defense back then and didn't know body positions that were safe. We still see submissions today but nothing like back then. As far as striking there is much more footwork today that wasn't quite there back in Pride. I love pride I've been here a long time, but Pride was a 2 dimensional version of MMA, where the guys today have gyms that blend in all disciplines.

The HW title was just settled with a sloppy guillotine son. Werdum would submit most HW today from his guard, hell most would not even go to his guard.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Everyone says MMA has "evolved" so much even though Gane just got taken down in 30 seconds and got choked instantly. He also had a slug fest with Tai Tuivasa who is basically just mark hunt but instead of a bottle he uses a shoe.

 

[icemun]

Crocop was damn near killed in his UFC debut by a gatekeeper.




Fedor did abysmally when competing in sanctioned fights, including losing to a 40 year old MW and getting knocked out of the first round of the strikeforce GP that DC effortlessly won.

These were actual Pride pro fighters Fedor faced.

martin lazarov (0-2)
levon lagilava (1-3)
hiroya takada (1-3)
mihail apostolov (0-1)
ryushi yanagisawa (24-25)
lee hasdell (9-14)
chris haseman (20-17)
gary goodridge (23-22)
yuji nagata (0-2)
naoya ogawa (7-2)
zulu (9-9)
hong man choi (4-5)
jaideep singh (2-3)

Pride revisionism stems solely from nostalgia.

 

[Tweak896]

The HW title was just settled with a sloppy guillotine son. Werdum would submit most HW today from his guard, hell most would not even go to his guard.

He's legit I'm not down playing it, I'm just saying zoom out and check all the divisions, the game is evolved differently than it was back in Pride days. Wrestlers aren't built like Coleman or Randleman anymore, I'm sure even Bo Nickal has better sub defense than those wrestlers and he's just starting.

My main point is HWs looked totally different out of pride and evolved what they are today after USADA (2015). You get sloppy gas fests and tons of injuries when they are under strict testing.

 

[ejazahmednit]

I think the era when JDS rose to championship was the best era of HWs
Cain as champion, Overeem, Stipe coming up, JDS, Werdum, Cormier in the wings

 

[Fergelmince]

Fedor, Nog, Cro-Cop, Coleman, Randleman, etc of the Pride Heavyweight Division were vastly more skilled than the current UFC Heavyweight Division, and last night's fight proved that.

Unfortunately, the UFC Heavyweight Division has devolved into a bunch of one-dimensional strikers that suck at all other aspects of MMA. The only exceptions to this rule being Curtis Blaydes, Tom Aspinall, and now Jon Jones.

Opinions?

Discuss.

Nah, it proved Jones is the greatest to ever do it. He obliterates the brawling amateurs from pride.

 

[Corona]

Pride was highly entertaining. It was also a shady as fuck non drug testing org full of one dimensional fighters who got rekt when they went to fight elsewhere.

 

[Supereem]

Are you saying that because Ngannou and Cormier are both retired/out of the UFC?

I think Ngannou/Cormier/Stipe/Jones/Blaydes/Aspinall beat the fuck out of those PRIDE guys IMO - that's not even counting up and comers like Pavlovich/Spivac/Almeida either.

Cormier maybe, but the rest couldnt hang with the Pride elite.

 

[Supereem]

Pride was highly entertaining. It was also a shady as fuck non drug testing org full of one dimensional fighters who got rekt when they went to fight elsewhere.

Who was one dimensional exactly? Fedor, for example, is one of the most well rounded fighters of all time, beating world class Jiujiteros on the ground and K1 level kickboxers standing.

The rest of the division was similarly well rounded, save for hammer house.

 

[cmw43]

The problem with the pride HWs was that there we’re a lot of the HWs that we’re really blown up LHWs. Most were also imo just one dimensional fighters like Coleman, crocop, and so on.

What did crocop do outside of striking? What did Coleman do outside of wrestling? What did nog do outside of grappling. They were serviceable in other areas but you are giving them more credit than usual.

To say these guys are better or more well rounded is fictional.

Crocop had high level take down defence and sub defence (in Pride he brought in Werdum to his camp to work on his ground game), guys like Gane have neither.

Crocop was only submitted twice in 52 fights.

Guys like Sergei Kharitonov were pretty well rounded at the time, he had some of the best boxing we've seen in HW MMA and had grappling from his sambo background.

 

[Willek]

Fedor fans and Mousasi fans are the worst.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Pride FC era: semmy schilt, sergei kharititonov, big nog, prime cro cop, fedor, kevin randleman, yoshida, fujita, alexander emelieanenko, josh barnett, mark hunt, igor vovchanchyn, werdum, etc, etc.

UFC same time era: Tim Sylvia, Andrei Arlovski, Paul Buentello, Pedro Rizzo, Justin Eilers, Gan McGee, Cabbage,

 

[DayV]

The game has evolved. It's not totally superior technique, grappling especially. Those were days where it was almost an advantage to be on your back because if you were good at armbars you would sub them from the bottom. I disagree a fighter like Big Nog would be able to pull off as many submissions in modern mma as he did in pride. Most guys barely trained defense back then and didn't know body positions that were safe. We still see submissions today but nothing like back then. As far as striking there is much more footwork today that wasn't quite there back in Pride. I love pride I've been here a long time, but Pride was a 2 dimensional version of MMA, where the guys today have gyms that blend in all disciplines.

UFC rules and cage are lot worse enviromment for submissions than Pride ring, so it is not just "evolution and improvement" . With 10 minute rounds with enough time to work, restarts in the middle with no wire barriers to limit movement of your body on the ground, and with GI kimonos allowed, emphasis was much bigger on submission game in Pride. Nowadays in UFC nobody wants bottom position any more, because he wold be easily cutt by cheap elbows and got his head pinned against the fence. Nogueira and Pride guys were foremost fighters of different rules and enviromment, and in that environment their skills and habbist would be successful. In terms of footwork, it is now running around and dancing on distance in big octagon, while in the ring it was a lot more direct.

The problem with the pride HWs was that there we’re a lot of the HWs that we’re really blown up LHWs. Most were also imo just one dimensional fighters like Coleman, crocop,

Size matters less in the ring.
It is a lot easier to reach taller longer guy in the ring where he has less space to move and where he can be closed to corners. Also, with no wire fence, weight matters less becuse you can not use size of your body nowhere that much as in the cage to controll the body of your opponent and enforce.

That's why short guy with brick in his hands like Igor Vovchanchyn, had no problems to reach full sized 190cm HWs like Valentijn, Yvel, Goodridge, Kerr, Baretto in the ring, and they were not able to pinn his body against the wall and enforce size.

One dimensional game + strenght like Lewis, Tuivasa, Rozrnstruik, JDS, Ngannou is just as enough to carry you to the top of modern UFC.