Lloyd Irvin's students accused of brutal rape (Part 3)

[madgrappler]

Glad you picked up on that. It was more about the culture that allows or almost encourages that type of peer pressure to exist.

You can either take a stand and stick out like a sore thumb or shut your mouth and hope it ends quickly. Brian chose to speak up and got ostracized. Lloyd witnessed a rape and chose not to.

I can ignore porn. I would never ignore rape. No one ever should. I don't care about age - he was a grown man. He let a human being be tortured and degraded right in front of him. A bit differnt than looking at nudie pics, wouldn't you say?

I don't think your argument has any validity at all.

 

[mabus6]

I haven't posted anything on his page.

Then it's just deactivated at the moment. I'm sure he will have it up for a few hours later today. What I do wonder is if he is moderating it himself or is he paying someone.

 

[michaeltn]

I don't think any amount of arguing is going to help Lloyd, the facts are damning. Even if Lloyd makes a heartfelt public statement at this point it would probably be untruthful and misleading.

 

[ironmanbret]

There's an enormous difference as far as defamation lawsuits. In the first you're purporting to state a fact, the second you're clearly giving an opinion. You can't be sued on the second one, basically.

**Edit: Damn Jag, you're quick on the draw...or response.

thanks to you also.

 

[Vitamin C]

Regarding the culture of TLI,
I would like to think that in the vast majority of situations, two guys hanging out having only known each other for a few months would not simultaneously both be into raping their team mate.
I would like to think that the moment any one person even hinted at an honest intention or desire to rape someone, the other person would react negatively, and stop whatever is about to happen.
How did it happen that not only one person was okay with it, but two. And then to act on it. Just the statistical probability of all of this must be so freaking low.
Charged in a gang rape.
Studied under a child molester.
Taught and sponsored two rapists.

 

[ironmanbret]

I don't think any amount of arguing is going to help Lloyd, the facts are damning. Even if Lloyd makes a heartfelt public statement at this point it would probably be untruthful and misleading.

speaking of lying apologies, did proctor ever recant the "dirty whore" comment?

 

[Vitamin C]

speaking of lying apologies, did proctor ever recant the "dirty whore" comment?

Yes, and he apologized primarily to his team for attracting negative attention.

 

[mabus6]

I don't think any amount of arguing is going to help Lloyd, the facts are damning. Even if Lloyd makes a heartfelt public statement at this point it would probably be untruthful and misleading.

This.
But if he provides a thoughtful response as well as answers questions on his facebook page he might be able to gain a little bit of goodwill.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Yes, and he apologized primarily to his team for attracting negative attention.

Sounds to me like a case of "I'm sorry but really only because of the negative response this got."

 

[ironmanbret]

Regarding the culture of TLI,
I would like to think that in the vast majority of situations, two guys hanging out having only known each other for a few months would not simultaneously both be into raping their team mate.
I would like to think that the moment any one person even hinted at an honest intention or desire to rape someone, the other person would react negatively, and stop whatever is about to happen.
How did it happen that not only one person was okay with it, but two. And then to act on it. Just the statistical probability of all of this must be so freaking low.
Charged in a gang rape.
Studied under a child molester.
Taught and sponsored two rapists.

bearing in mind also that a majority of rapes never get reported, if we consider that lineage a closed system (child rapist and pornographer to rapist-in-thought-if-not-in-deed to duo rapists, three martial "generations") then statistically isn't it highly probable that there are far more rapes in their rapey little world that we don't know about?

i'm not saying that TLI is full of rapists...i'm just sayin' that i THINK TLI may be full of rapists...

 

[michaeltn]

This.
But if he provides a thoughtful response as well as answers questions on his facebook page he might be able to gain a little bit of goodwill.

true, he could even get some forgiveness from people, however, I would still recommend people not to train there, especially women and children.

 

[ironmanbret]

Yes, and he apologized primarily to his team for attracting negative attention.

i must have missed that, or forgotten about it...this topic is LOOOOONG and i've been hit in the head a lot...i'll search for it.

 

[swirldog]

Random question - Has Lloyd's fb been deleted? Or have I just been blocked?

I couldn't find his page on FB. (I'm not the brightest when it comes to social media, so it's possible I wasn't searching properly.) I didn't see a FB link on his main gym's site and I noticed when I Googled him that all his gym's Google reviews are at least a few months old.

 

[bjjaz]

His FB is only up when someone is there to monitor it, if not he takes it back down.

 

[madgrappler]

So devnull, master Lloyd is a role model.

So if your child ever commits a heinous crime, or stands by while others commit it, or tries but fails to participate, what you want them to do is:

Not stop his/her inner circle from victim blaming

Try to deny it and discredit those presenting the facts

Attack the families of your students that encourage them to look into it

use other heinous crimes of the same sort as marketing opportunities

but by no means ever man up and take responsibility.

This is what you want for your child?

How about:

"when I was younger I did a horrible thing - I was lucky not to have my life ruined but I take full responsibility and I've tried to make the most of my second chance."

I think its probably too late now. Lloyd showed who he is and now everybody knows. No matter what he does now he may be torched for life. Every second that passes without him manning up the odds of recovering go down.

 

[madcity21]

Yes, and he apologized primarily to his team for attracting negative attention.

This.

Also, he said he had tried to edit his "dirty whore" comment after he wrote it but forum software didn't allow it.

That's bullshit. I registered and read the thread. Two people called him out in his comments, and he said to take it to MMA.tv because he wasn't saying anything else. (Well someone did take it to MMA.tv. haha).

If its true he immediately or soon after regretted his dirty whore comment like he later claimed, Wrightson Bjj instructor Philip Proctor could have made another post apologizing for his comment. He didn't.

The forum mod put out a 'No personal attack' edict. So there was no dogpile and he didn't apologize or express regret.

He only issued the apology on thethe UG after the bad press started on there. He never posted in the original thread again.

 

[bjjisgreat]

This.

Also, he said he had tried to edit his "dirty whore" comment after he wrote it but forum software didn't allow it.

That's bullshit. I registered and read the thread. Two people called him out in his comments, and he said to take it to MMA.tv because he wasn't saying anything else. (Well someone did take it to MMA.tv. haha).

If its true he immediately or soon after regretted his dirty whore comment like he later claimed, Wrightson Bjj instructor Philip Proctor could have made another post apologizing for his comment. He didn't.

The forum mod put out a 'No personal attack' edict. So there was no dogpile and he didn't apologize or express regret.

He only issued the apology on thethe UG after the bad press started on there. He never posted in the original thread again.

Disgusting.

 

[madcity21]

I couldn't find his page on FB. (I'm not the brightest when it comes to social media, so it's possible I wasn't searching properly.) I didn't see a FB link on his main gym's site and I noticed when I Googled him that all his gym's Google reviews are at least a few months old.

There are already a few negative reviews on yelp mentioning the rape charges. Yelp is a powerful tool.

 

[merseysideoc]

No that is called a loyal black belt defending accusations against his master. The dirty whore comment was unnecessary. Lloyd irvin was acquitted and faced his charges and is a family man and changed his life.

As I stated in another thread.

You forget sir... Llloyd is a family man, he is married with kids and is a role model. So has his life turned around, YES, were mistakes made, yes, were they dealt with , yes. Lloyd and his actions TODAY are not indicative what what happened 20 years ago.

What complete tosh. So in other words, impotence=innocence? As another poster in this thread succinctly stated, Lloyd got off (beat the rape charges) without getting off (rape fail due to momentary impotence). I'm not drinking the kool aid and neither is anyone else.

I believe people can and do turn their lives around, no matter what their past. However, contrary to what you posit here, Lloyd's (re)actions throughout this entire thing have revealed quite clearly where he and his "loyal" band of merry men stand today. If Phil Proctor, Marcos Avellan, et al., want to fall on their swords for Lloyd, that's certainly their choice. But, just because affiliates like BETA choose to no longer associate themselves with the Lloyd Irvin groupthink, that doesn't qualify them as traitors to the cause. In actuality, it demonstrates that they think for themselves, place integrity, honest business principles, and the true spirit of martial arts over a convincingly destructive culture that Lloyd has bred.

 

[aker2703]

This.

Also, he said he had tried to edit his "dirty whore" comment after he wrote it but forum software didn't allow it.

That's bullshit. I registered and read the thread. Two people called him out in his comments, and he said to take it to MMA.tv because he wasn't saying anything else. (Well someone did take it to MMA.tv. haha).

If its true he immediately or soon after regretted his dirty whore comment like he later claimed, Wrightson Bjj instructor Philip Proctor could have made another post apologizing for his comment. He didn't.

The forum mod put out a 'No personal attack' edict. So there was no dogpile and he didn't apologize or express regret.

He only issued the apology on thethe UG after the bad press started on there. He never posted in the original thread again.

just for the record, can you edit on that forum, the reason i ask is because it looks remarkably like the sherdog forum. the layout is almost indentical.