looking to buy my first hand gun...

[WorldofWarcraft]

I like single action accuracy and the option of shooting single action on the first shot by manually ****ing the hammer, plus the added security of visually knowing that the gun is ready to fire.

I had a single action p99 soft air gun when I was 18 and I shot a friend in the eye because I didn't know the gun was hot (not an excuse--should have been more responsible with a dangerous toy).

XDMs have a striker indicator

and a loaded chamber indicator

my personal favorite pistol at the moment

 

[Jory]

XDMs have a striker indicator

and a loaded chamber indicator

my personal favorite pistol at the moment

my sig has a loaded chamber indicator. Isn't the XDM DAO? I didn't take my research too far because it didn't fit my hand well.

 

[jericksen5]

my sig has a loaded chamber indicator. Isn't the XDM DAO? I didn't take my research too far because it didn't fit my hand well.

No, the XDM is DA/SA as well. Pretty much the same specs as the sig pro but around $200 more on average. Although I personally like the fit, finish, and design of the XDM better, the sig pro is certainly compares in performance.
I believe the reason that the sig pro is fairly cheap compared to others is that police and military forces worldwide ordered them in massive quantities when they first came out, offsetting most of the development costs. I think it was the french police that placed an initial order of 200,000.

 

[General Sherman]

No, the XDM is DA/SA as well.

It is?

 

[Cody564231]

It is?

No. DAO.

 

[jericksen5]

No. DAO.

Well, I think technically speaking the XD and its variants are

 

[Cody564231]

Well, I think technically speaking the XD and its variants are

 

[jericksen5]

Technically speaking, they're classified as DAO by both the manufacturer and the ATF.

Do you even know what DAO is? If so, please explain to me how the XDM is a DAO pistol.

 

[jericksen5]

Technically speaking, they're classified as DAO by both the manufacturer and the ATF.

Yeah, just did a quick google search, and it is definately not classified as DAO by either the manufacturer or the ATF. The manufacturer classifies it as USA (Ultra Safety Assurance), which doesnt really fit into the traditional DA or SA catagories, being a striker system.

According to handguninfo.com, the ATF classifies the XD and its variants as Single Action only, as the internals are essentially that of an SA firearm. Here is how they describe USA:
HandGunInfo.com: SIG357: Springfield Extreme Duty XD Pistol: SA/DA Trigger Discussion and Pistol Review

Ultra Safety Assurance (USA-XD): This is a Springfield XD trigger system, which does not fit into the above categories cleanly. Internally, it is classified as a single action. Yet externally, the XD operates very differently than typical pistols in the Single Action category that use short-stroke single action triggers and require a manual safety of some kind (see definition 1). That

 

[Jory]

Do you even know what DAO is? If so, please explain to me how the XDM is a DAO pistol.

A weapon is double action only when a first pull of the trigger will fire a shot without having to **** the weapon.

Typically, double action requires a heavier trigger pull than single action, which is why I don't like them, but the weapon is always safe and always ready to shoot, which is why law enforcement agencies like them.

I realize it is more complicated than that. The "double" refers to the trigger pull first lifting the hammer and then releasing it to strike the firing pin as opposed to the trigger pull simply releasing an already ****ed hammer.

For a striker-fired weapon, weight and length of travel of trigger pull was really what I was asking about.

 

[jericksen5]

A weapon is double action only when a first pull of the trigger will fire a shot without having to **** the weapon.

Yeah, that was directed at Cody. You obviously know the difference. The XDM trigger will not pull back the striker, and needs to be ****ed for the first round. After that it operates as an SA pistol would, with the recoil re-****ing the striker.

Typically, double action requires a heavier trigger pull than single action, which is why I don't like them, but the weapon is always safe and always ready to shoot, which is why law enforcement agencies like them.

I realize it is more complicated than that. The "double" refers to the trigger pull first lifting the hammer and then releasing it to strike the firing pin as opposed to the trigger pull simply releasing an already ****ed hammer.

For a striker-fired weapon, weight and length of travel of trigger pull was really what I was asking about.

The weight of the trigger is that of a SA pistol, not the long heavy pull of a double action. I think its around 5 lbs. Most DA pistols are around 10-12 lbs I believe.

 

[Jory]

Yeah, that was directed at Cody. You obviously know the difference. The XDM trigger will not pull back the striker, and needs to be ****ed for the first round. After that it operates as an SA pistol would, with the recoil re-****ing the striker.



The weight of the trigger is that of a SA pistol, not the long heavy pull of a double action. I think its around 5 lbs. Most DA pistols are around 10-12 lbs I believe.

interesting. and I see from the website the grips aren't all ridiculously over-sized. I'll be considering the XMD for my next handgun purchase.

 

[jericksen5]

interesting. and I see from the website the grips aren't all ridiculously over-sized. I'll be considering the XMD for my next handgun purchase.

Honestly, IMO the XDM is pretty comparable to the Sig SP2022 you already have. I didnt find the XDM to be anywhere ahead of the SP2022 other than the much larger grip, which was much better for my larger hands. But not worth the $150 difference in price when I was comparing them both. Plus after I tossed on a $5 Houge grip, it was just as good.

Why get another polymer pistol if you already have one? Get a 1911.

I dont know much yet about this manufacturer, but this is one of the nicest looking 1911s ive seen. Anyone know anything about Fusion Firearms?

 

[Jory]

Honestly, IMO the XDM is pretty comparable to the Sig SP2022 you already have. I didnt find the XDM to be anywhere ahead of the SP2022 other than the much larger grip, which was much better for my larger hands. But not worth the $150 difference in price when I was comparing them both. Plus after I tossed on a $5 Houge grip, it was just as good.

Why get another polymer pistol if you already have one? Get a 1911.

I dont know much yet about this manufacturer, but this is one of the nicest looking 1911s ive seen. Anyone know anything about Fusion Firearms?

I do not.

I'm a fan of polymer pistols. They cost less, and, in my opinion, felt recoil is less than in conventional steel and wood pistols.

I had a Glock 23 and a 19 in my youth, and found both to be reliable, accurate pieces. And I'm thrilled with my new sig, put the first 15 rounds out of the box through a hole the size of a quarter at 25 ft.

The three things I'm looking for right now in a hand are 1) fun to shoot, 2) diversity of cartridges, and 3) a level of visual distinction, so I can quickly tell what gun takes what cartridge without having to read the slide. The XMD in .45 ACP or .40S&W would satisfy 2 and 3.

 

[General Sherman]

I dont know much yet about this manufacturer, but this is one of the nicest looking 1911s ive seen. Anyone know anything about Fusion Firearms?

Never heard of Fusion but for the price it better be a good gun.

I'd just go with a Kimber Raptor II.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

1911s aren't all too practical anymore. They haven't been for a long time. Unless you get one double stack, then it's not so bad.

 

[jericksen5]

1911s aren't all too practical anymore. They haven't been for a long time. Unless you get one double stack, then it's not so bad.

I completely disagree. Practical for what exactly? Thats too subjective of a statement to make.

For a concealed carry weapon, how many .45acp sub compacts will hold more than a 1911? Not many. Its a tried, true, and predictable design. There is a reason why they are still as popular as they are. And most people still prefer metal frames over poly.

 

[jericksen5]

I do not.

I'm a fan of polymer pistols. They cost less, and, in my opinion, felt recoil is less than in conventional steel and wood pistols.

In my experience, less felt recoil with a polymer pistol has only been with glock. A metal framed gun like a 1911 SHOULD have less recoil than a glock, but something with the glock design dampens the recoil and it feels like less recoil. That certainly isnt true though accross the board with polymer pistols.

My 9mm SP2022 (polymer) has a TON more recoil than my friends 1911 in .45acp. I thought the same of the M&P.

 

[Cody564231]

Do you even know what DAO is? If so, please explain to me how the XDM is a DAO pistol.

I was wrong, confused the trigger system with Glock's system, which is double action. My bad.

 

[Cody564231]

In my experience, less felt recoil with a polymer pistol has only been with glock. A metal framed gun like a 1911 SHOULD have less recoil than a glock, but something with the glock design dampens the recoil and it feels like less recoil. That certainly isnt true though accross the board with polymer pistols.

My 9mm SP2022 (polymer) has a TON more recoil than my friends 1911 in .45acp. I thought the same of the M&P.

It's two factors. 1) the polymer flexes and absorbs some of the recoil, and 2) the spring is different, especially with the gen 4 models and their double recoil springs.