Manly vs. Metro

[Tosa]

Rationalizing stuff like "I don't floss", "I don't eat my vegetables" or "i cant rite gud" as being manly attitudes is a strategy to reduce cognitive dissonance.

Now, everybody has an inherent tendency to try to find ways to reduce cognitive dissonance, but it is definitely what idiots are at their best at!

While that may be true, I don't believe it's a complete explanation.

 

[Pancake]

 

[PowerHungry]

 

[KyleInAction]

I think this is a serious issue. A lack of a good image of what manliness is, leads idiots to think that things like "I don't floss", "I don't eat my vegetables" or "i cant rite gud" are manly. And it leads to too many of portrayals of men in the media as stupid, useless boors and/or drunken idiots.

This post got me thinking, thanks.

What do you think caused the initial deterioration of gender roles? To me it seams like the problem can be traced to three things: modern technology, women's rights (and the political correctness than must follow), and television/magazine media.

It used to be that men did the jobs that women were not capable of doing. Obviously this was because men were built stronger and faster than women (most likely because strong men/weak women means increased reproduction). However, modern technology has evened the playing field, and with a few exceptions, women are now capable of performing the same tasks as men.

Enter the 1940's and World War 2. With the men fighting the war, many women had to join the ranks of the working force. Propaganda like this served to purposely blur the gender line and encourage women to help do their part:

When the men came back, however, the women kept working. And as technology progressed, more and more jobs were either created, or augmented, that women were physically capable of performing as well. And, at the same time, more and more "manly" occupations were becoming automated. We forced both genders into neutral roles of managing machines that do the jobs that once belonged to particular genders.

It wasn't the generation that fought and worked that was affected, though; it was their children. They were the ones who only knew a world of mixed gender roles. I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time that generation was maturing, we were graced with the stereotypical "dumb oaf husband" on television, which didn't really come along until the 80's and 90's (I'm thinking Homer Simpson, Al Bundy).

Now the media simply perpetuates the problem. This is where I think cognitive dissonance comes into play. I believe that naturally people will take the path of least resistance unless given a compelling reason to do otherwise. Naturally people will not want to brush their teeth, eat their vegetables, hunt their own food or build their own house. We've managed to create a society now that doesn't require intelligence to survive. I think the images on TV just serve to reinforce the path of least resistance.


I should end by saying it's clearly a cultural problem, and not a humanity problem. Less developed countries still have firmly defined gender roles. It really isn't a "problem" as long as technology lasts. However, if we were to run out of oil tomorrow, I think the more primitive countries would certainly have the upper hand.

>

 

[theBrookDweller]

More metro***

- the only movie i've ever cried watching was Best of the Best 2

 

[34st]

I Am Man!:

-Currently 14, in the 8th grade and have dated more 9/10s than any amount of girls my friends(or anyone in my school) have dated.

-Friend said he's happy my grandpa died, so I'm fighting him tomorrow and stole his girlfriend who texted me saying she's going to give me head.

- I have a mustache.

- I squat 3 times a week and deadlift twice a week

- I can squat more ATG than my 20 year old brother(who's a lean 5'9 180 lbs) can half squat.

-Let my ballfro grow

-Maintain a 94 overall average in school without even paying attention.

Metrof

 

[Tosa]

This post got me thinking, thanks.

What you posted is pretty similar to my own thoughts, I just didn't bother with writing on the topic in that length.

I think what we're left with today is the question of whether there's a difference between being a good man and a good person. And if there is a difference, then what constitutes being a good man?

I Am Man!:

-Currently 14, in the 8th grade and have dated more 9/10s than any amount of girls my friends(or anyone in my school) have dated.

- Went on a date with this 7/10

Real men date women, not fractions. Math is great, but you shouldn't be attracted to it in that way.

 

[34st]

What you posted is pretty similar to my own thoughts, I just didn't bother with writing on the topic in that length.

I think what we're left with today is the question of whether there's a difference between being a good man and a good person. And if there is a difference, then what constitutes being a good man?



Real men date women, not fractions. Math is great, but you shouldn't be attracted to it in that way.

I have a thing with my math teacher, does that count?

 

[Gfreak]

Manly:
-Have had a beard since I was 16
-Shave once a week at most
-Martial arts (BJJ, kickboxing)
-Will do anything for my "family"
-Some of my nicknames include: "lumberjack" and "thor"
-Am a pretty decent shot with my rifle and go hunting with it.
-Drive a 1993 caprice classic ltz (350c.i. v8)
-Am more metal than you
-Have played guitar for about 7 years now

Metro:
-Am a computer geek
-Do curls
-AM constantly checking my weight (dropped 23 lbs so far)
-Own a small dog (boston terrier)
-Enjoy cuddling a lot
-Wear flip-flops 99% of the time

 

[miaou]

^ The gayness of wearing flip-flops depends on the situation. If it's about "style" or to "look different", that's definitely gay. If it's because they feel more comfortable to you and others think they look gay, that's pretty manly because you do your thing and don't give a shit. If you live in a country where everybody wears flip-flops 99% of the time (like some place in south-east asia), then it's neither gay nor manly.

As for "playing the guitar for 7 years", there is nothing manly about that shit.

 

[VoodooPlata]

Math is great, but you shouldn't be attracted to it in that way.

You shut your mouth! SHUT IT!

*runs away crying*

 

[JauntyAngle]

The variation in what people think is manly is fascinating.

It's interesting to see how many people feel that anything to do with Metal (the music) is manly. Personally, I associate Metal with angry, nihilistic teenagers. I don't see how anger, shouty/screamy singing styles, grinding guitar and songs about suicide or the devil relate to any male virtues. I admit to being biased as Metal is by far my least favourite type of music (below even folk music or teen pop music) but still...

I guess if I had to say what kinds of musicians were manly, I would say male opera singers. Putting Pavarotti or one of his peers against one of the singers from a metal band.. that is men against boys. Arguably, gangsta rappers are manly, too, although arguably their music is really only a parody of some unpleasant male values.

Edit- Sorry Voodoo- I know you're a singer in a metal band. Hopefully you can somehow live without my approval

 

[JauntyAngle]

Math is great, but you shouldn't be attracted to it in that way.

Math can be pretty attractive:

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

I Am Man!:

-Currently 14, in the 8th grade and have dated more 9/10s than any amount of girls my friends(or anyone in my school) have dated.

-Friend said he's happy my grandpa died, so I'm fighting him tomorrow and stole his girlfriend who texted me saying she's going to give me head.

- I have a mustache.

- I squat 3 times a week and deadlift twice a week

- I can squat more ATG than my 20 year old brother(who's a lean 5'9 180 lbs) can half squat.

-Let my ballfro grow

-Maintain a 94 overall average in school without even paying attention.

Metrof

 

[34st]

Whether you are a "man" or "metro***," you are also a douchebag.

Or maybe I was the same at 14. But God I hope not.

How does my post imply I'm a douchebag? If you mean I'm estatting than you're wrong.

 

[VoodooPlata]

Edit- Sorry Voodoo- I know you're a singer in a metal band. Hopefully you can somehow live without my approval

I listed singing under "metro", so I think I'll manage. :icon_chee

If I may;
There are a lot of angry teenagers in metal, for sure. But the lifestyle (more than the music) embodies certain traditionally male qualities - the metal culture has a blend of viking beards, motorcycles, beer, fighting, loud guttural noises and blue-collar values making it decidedly un-feminine. Even girls in metal should dress in a manner appealing to males, but should also drink heavily and punch guys the fuck out on a regular basis. The metal subset values a bottle of Jack higher than fistful of dollars, and lives like there's no tomorrow because we all know tomorrow we'll be hungover.

Also, the inside of the subculture scolds and hazes its young who whine and put on makeup. Many metalheads begin their journey as angry teenagers, and then grow up to become angry young men, who later grow up to become angry math students with pitbulls and wives.

 

[JauntyAngle]

If I may;
There are a lot of angry teenagers in metal, for sure. But the lifestyle (more than the music) embodies certain traditionally male qualities - the metal culture has a blend of viking beards, motorcycles, beer, fighting, loud guttural noises and blue-collar values making it decidedly un-feminine. Even girls in metal should dress in a manner appealing to males, but should also drink heavily and punch guys the fuck out on a regular basis. The metal subset values a bottle of Jack higher than fistful of dollars, and lives like there's no tomorrow because we all know tomorrow we'll be hungover.

Also, the inside of the subculture scolds and hazes its young who whine and put on makeup. Many metalheads begin their journey as angry teenagers, and then grow up to become angry young men, who later grow up to become angry math students with pitbulls and wives.

That definitely sounds more manly- the whole hard-drinkin', hard-livin', fightin' biker thing. Although I do think that anger/nihilism/negativity isn't so manly. In my mind, manliness is associated with images of rugged types standing on the sides of mountains, staring at the horizon with optimism and quiet confidence. Self-destructive behaviour (heavy drinking, drugs) etc can be manly, but it should come from a massive and uncontrollable appetite for life, combined with stupidity, in the style of Oliver Reed, George Best or Norman Mailer, and not actual self-destructiveness for its own sake.

Of course I write this as one of the less manly men around, both in the forum and in life.

 

[VoodooPlata]

Well, in the same way that self-destructive joie-de-vivre is different from self-destructive childishness, spoiled anger is not the same thing as revolutionary anger.

Lifting heavy things isn't so manly if it's done to impress girls, but it's pretty manly if it implies effort for self-betterment.

Intent is everything.

 

[miaou]

I listed singing under "metro", so I think I'll manage. :icon_chee

If I may;
There are a lot of angry teenagers in metal, for sure. But the lifestyle (more than the music) embodies certain traditionally male qualities - the metal culture has a blend of viking beards, motorcycles, beer, fighting, loud guttural noises and blue-collar values making it decidedly un-feminine. Even girls in metal should dress in a manner appealing to males, but should also drink heavily and punch guys the fuck out on a regular basis. The metal subset values a bottle of Jack higher than fistful of dollars, and lives like there's no tomorrow because we all know tomorrow we'll be hungover.

Also, the inside of the subculture scolds and hazes its young who whine and put on makeup. Many metalheads begin their journey as angry teenagers, and then grow up to become angry young men, who later grow up to become angry math students with pitbulls and wives.

I am by not means an expert in the subject, but it sounds like you are describing a biker and/or hard-rock culture, and not metal culture.

From what I can remember from listening to metal when I was a teenager, the music, the lifestyle of the bands, and the lyrics of the songs are not what you describe. It's more like "fuck you world, we listen to aggressive/hard/loud shit, we dress "dark and aggressive", and fuck you again because we are awesome and the rest of you are pussies". I'd say that's more in line with a teenage/adolescent mentality, definitely not manliness.

Not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings here, and not hating. From 14-17 heavy metal was all I listened to.

 

[VoodooPlata]

I am by not means an expert in the subject, but it sounds like you are describing a biker and/or hard-rock culture, and not metal culture.

From what I can remember from listening to metal when I was a teenager, the music, the lifestyle of the bands, and the lyrics of the songs are not what you describe. It's more like "fuck you world, we listen to aggressive/hard/loud shit, we dress "dark and aggressive", and fuck you again because we are awesome and the rest of you are pussies". I'd say that's more in line with a teenage/adolescent mentality, definitely not manliness.

Not meaning to hurt anyone's feelings here, and not hating. From 14-17 heavy metal was all I listened to.

Go to a metal festival, and you'll probably find a lot of beer-swilling, bearded, tattooed guys in leather jackets and meshuggah shirts. I think culture-wise, extreme metal and plain old hard rock have more in common than not.

(Is this thread the new pub?)