News Metabolite found in Jon Jones’ UFC 232 VADA test results

[Deleted member 347815]

I made a comment on you needing to read the rules because you clearly havent, not as a direct response to any point you poorly tried to make. Just go familiarize yourself with the case and the relevant parts of the agreement and rules then we can talk about it. The primary source is the best way to learn

Jones has illegal substances in his system. There is no way to bend the rules around that or spin it to how you would like to believe.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

No, It's not. They also told him that this stuff could stay In your system for 2 years. It's exactly what Mir said they told him word for word.

They told him both things.

I think you are misrepresenting what Mir said. He was clearly and explicitly contrasting how he was treated differently than Jones for a similar offense. He was calling bullshit on the way Jones is getting special treatement.

Here: "In the spring of 2016, when USADA representatives sat in my Las Vegas kitchen and told me that the turinabol metabolite that they said I tested positive for could only have been ingested within a window of the past several months, I vehemently proclaimed my innocence. Having never failed any drug test throughout my career, I asked if we could go back further in the past to test any supplements that I could’ve taken, but they claimed that was both impossible and unnecessary. They were firm on their assertion that there was only a recent period of several months that would warrant any consideration. Now, little more than two years later, Jon Jones has tested positive for the same trace of the same banned substance, and USADA is taking the position that this same low level is in fact not a new ingestion, but something that could be the result of a residual “pulsing” effect that could potentially stay in his system “forever”. Further, they are now claiming that this phenomenon is something that they are seeing in other cases as well.

This latest shift in USADA’s position would seem to suggest one of two possibilities…Either they are a) offering special dispensation to Jon Jones or b) they are second guessing and subsequently “revising” the presentation of their own science. Either scenario leaves myself and a number of other fighters whose careers have been similarly damaged by past testing claims to wonder what this says about USADA’s consistency and their tests’ reliability. Sadly, my accusation came at a time when the UFC’s partnership with USADA had not yet been subjected to the kind of doubt that now seems to further cloud it with each new instance of convoluted circumstances."

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/12/ufc-232-frank-mir-questions-usada-after-jon-jones-drug-test

 

[EdmundsEmptyBankAccount]

Lol @ no enhancing qualities on its own. You ever hear of cycling and benefit from said steroid cycle?

Jesus Christ why am I even arguing with 14 year olds with dubs.

don't worry we all fall into @kflo's trap at some stage.
just refer him to my post and watch him flail with some sort of excuse

“Science-wise, it does make some sense,” - Jeff Novitsky
"I am not a scientist - I worked for the IRS" - Jeff Novitsky

Nobody who admits they are not a scientist should be allowed to say "Science-wise, It does make sense"

Just look at the Before/After shots - he even grew the stereotypical Goatee to show us he turned Evil/Heel!

 

[Mortal Wombat]

Waiting for Kflo to come in and say everyones wrong and Jones is innocent. @Arm Barbarian you cant make this shit up. well you can but....

 

[ReggieK]

That’s not an answer.

Neither is that.

The way science actually works is that scientists think a thing might be, then they prove it, then they show that proof to other scientists so that they can either prove or disprove it themselves. Once that happens it either becomes a fact or is discarded.

They don't just get to say stuff without proof and then say "why would we lie?"

 

[Deleted member 347815]

don't worry we all fall into @kflo's trap at some stage.
just refer him to my post and watch him flail with some sort of excuse

Ya it's fun to take the bait once in a while and watch the autist dance.

 

[MescalineDreams]

Because he's a cokehead who takes everything. And turinabol is an effective PED steroid

Sure it is, but If you were trying to cheat the system..It's literally one of the worst steroids you can possibly take. Ridiculously long half life, easily detectable, very difficult to mask If even possible. This stuff would be caught by the previous tests administered by the NSAC before USADA even became a factor.

It's just always been odd to me that In a USADA era that anyone would mess with turinabol . Especially when you're rich and have money and likely access to high level undetectable designer steroids with short half lives and superior effects.

 

[LUDELOW]

so,. how many kids on sherdog believe this shit, pulsing effect?

 

[ReadWrite]

We all know where this is headed:

Jones Will No Longer Be Tested Because Old Stuff Will Keep Surfacing and Raise Questions

 

[bobafett]

This organization is turning into a bad joke, one case of special treatment and obvious bias at a time.

 

[snackgod]

Steroid metabolites have been found in Jon Jones’ system again.

Jones, the UFC light heavyweight champion, was drug tested in competition by the Voluntary Anti-Doping Agency (VADA) in relation to his UFC 232 fight last month with Alexander Gustafsson. The results, which came back this week, showed that the long-term oral Turinabol metabolite that has plagued Jones for more than a year was present, according to information obtained by MMA Fighting from the California State Athletic Commission (CSAC).

Jones had 33 picograms of 4-chloro-18-nor-17β-hydroxymethyl,17α-methyl-5α-androst-13-en-3α-ol (M3) (or DHMCT) in his system, per the commission. The urine sample was collected from him on the day of weigh-ins, Dec. 28. Jones defeated Alexander Gustafsson by third-round TKO in the main event of UFC 232 in Inglewood, Calif., a day later to regain the UFC light heavyweight belt.

CSAC will not take disciplinary action against Jones, executive officer Andy Foster said. This is the same, long-term M3 metabolite that Jones was suspended 15 months for stemming from a July 2017 sample collection in relation to UFC 214, Foster said. Foster said subsequent drug tests on Jones done by VADA, UFC partner USADA, and the commission have come back clean since the in-competition abnormal reading.

Foster said he checked again this week with Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL) lab director Dr. Daniel Eichner and Eichner stood by his previous statement that there was no evidence that Jones had re-administered a banned substance and no performance-enhancing benefits.

“I spoke with the scientists,” Foster said. “They stand by their original statement. Nothing has changed. We’ve already punished Jon Jones for the M3 metabolite, which is a long-term metabolite. There’s no grounds to charge somebody twice for the same violation.”

This is the very same metabolite that came up in Jones’ drug-test results multiple times between August 2018 and December 2018, the last of which coming on Dec. 9, which led to the Nevada Athletic Commission (NAC) not wanting to license Jones to fight at UFC 232 without a proper hearing.

With Nevada unable to bring him before the commission until this month, the UFC moved the entire UFC 232 card, originally scheduled for Las Vegas, to Southern California. Foster, who had dealt with Jones’ UFC 214 situation, already had an understanding of the case and he trusted the word of Eichner and other experts that there was no evidence that Jones had taken any new prohibited substances. SMRTL is the lab that analyzed all of the Jones tests that have turned up the metabolite.

The published science on oral Turinabol states that the M3 metabolite of oral Turinabol can be detected in someone’s system for 40 to 50 days, though no new peer-reviewed studies have been done since 2011, because Turinabol is an illegal drug. This in-competition sample Dec. 28 was collected about 17 months after Jones initially tested positive for the metabolite. Per USADA and the UFC, the science in these cases is evolving and the amount found in Jones’ system is ultra trace down to the picogram level.

UFC vice president of athlete health and performance Jeff Novitzky told MMA Fighting that he’s not at all surprised that the M3 metabolite is still in Jones’ system and “pulsing” or showing up at different times. Novitzky said experts have theorized that the metabolite pops up in drug tests when Jones is cutting weight or doing heavy exercise, which could explain the weigh-in day abnormal reading. Like CSAC, USADA will not be taking any action against Jones for this instance, Novitzky said.

“Science-wise, it does make some sense,” Novitzky said. “Once again, there was no parent compound and none of the short- or medium-term metabolites, which tend to stick around for three or weeks. So this is even more indicative that for whatever reason this long-term metabolite is just hanging around in these tissues and they get expressed when you’re going through weight loss.”

Novitzky said USADA has found another UFC fighter, whom he would not name, who is going through a similar “pulsing” situation with the M3 metabolite. He had mentioned fighter Grant Dawson previously as someone who had that metabolite in his system and a similar circumstance. USADA ultimately cleared Dawson.

Novitzky assured that USADA is not giving Jones a proverbial get-out-of-jail-free card every time this steroid metabolite pops up in his system.

“I don’t think it’s a blanket statement that every time that metabolite shows up that it’s automatically considered no re-administration,” he said “They’re looking at a lot of different factors each time it does show up. They’re looking at biological passport information to determine, are any of these other levels suspicious or raising or dropping. They’re looking to see if they can detect any of the shorter or medium term metabolites. It’s not accurate to say that every time this expresses itself in Jon it’s an automatic free pass. They look at it in detail every time it shows up to make sure that everything is consistent with no re-administration and no performance-enhancing benefit.”

Jones, 31, all along has denied knowingly taking any banned substances. He was suspended 15 months in his USADA case stemming from the UFC 214 positive test. Jones was facing a four-year ban as a repeat offender, but that was reduced to 18 months when Jones provided “substantial assistance,” or cooperation in an undisclosed, separate case. The suspension was reduced again to 15 months when arbitrator Richard McLaren determined that Jones did not likely ingest a prohibited substance intentionally.

The first time Jones, regarded as one of the best MMA fighters of all time, tested positive under USADA was in 2016, for the anti-estrogen agents clomiphene and Letrozol. He was suspended one year after arbitration in that case.

The fight against Gustafsson was Jones’ first bout since his win over Daniel Cormier was overturned at UFC 214 due to the positive drug test. Jones is now scheduled to defend his title against Anthony Smith in the main event of UFC 235 on March 2 in Las Vegas.

That booking is contingent on Jones being licensed by the NAC. Jones is scheduled to go before the commission in a hearing next Tuesday.

Source: https://www.mmafighting.com/2019/1/...-found-in-jon-jones-ufc-232-vada-test-results

Looks like he will keep his belt.

ha at jon being clean.

jon jones will be given yet another pass cause the ufc needs him.

#fakechamp #cheater.

 

[snackgod]

So if they knew this stuff was in him and long lasting why was he cleared to fight?

simple money

 

[MescalineDreams]

I think you are misrepresenting what Mir said. He was clearly and explicitly contrasting how he was treated differently than Jones for a similar offense. He was calling bullshit on the way Jones is getting special treatement.

Here: "In the spring of 2016, when USADA representatives sat in my Las Vegas kitchen and told me that the turinabol metabolite that they said I tested positive for could only have been ingested within a window of the past several months, I vehemently proclaimed my innocence. Having never failed any drug test throughout my career, I asked if we could go back further in the past to test any supplements that I could’ve taken, but they claimed that was both impossible and unnecessary. They were firm on their assertion that there was only a recent period of several months that would warrant any consideration. Now, little more than two years later, Jon Jones has tested positive for the same trace of the same banned substance, and USADA is taking the position that this same low level is in fact not a new ingestion, but something that could be the result of a residual “pulsing” effect that could potentially stay in his system “forever”. Further, they are now claiming that this phenomenon is something that they are seeing in other cases as well.

This latest shift in USADA’s position would seem to suggest one of two possibilities…Either they are a) offering special dispensation to Jon Jones or b) they are second guessing and subsequently “revising” the presentation of their own science. Either scenario leaves myself and a number of other fighters whose careers have been similarly damaged by past testing claims to wonder what this says about USADA’s consistency and their tests’ reliability. Sadly, my accusation came at a time when the UFC’s partnership with USADA had not yet been subjected to the kind of doubt that now seems to further cloud it with each new instance of convoluted circumstances."

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/12/ufc-232-frank-mir-questions-usada-after-jon-jones-drug-test

No, I was quoting what he said in his original statements back when he popped In 2016..not his most recent statement.

I agree with his assessment about potential lack of consistency and favoritism towards Jones In his most recent statement.

I'll try to find It, been lazy and trying to eat. But what I said was pretty much word for word. He said they told him it could stay In his system for 2 years.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

No, I was quoting what he said in his original statements back when he popped In 217..not his most recent statement.

I agree with his assessment about potential lack of consistency and favoritism towards Jones In his most recent statement.

I'll try to find It, been lazy and trying to eat. But what I said was pretty much word for word. He said they told him it could stay In his system for 2 years.

Eating isn't laziness. Take your time, and enjoy your meal. If you get around to it, please tag me, because if Mir really did say both then that seems relevant to this discussion.

 

[FLYOVER BOSSMAN]

Sure it is, but If you were trying to cheat the system..It's literally one of the worst steroids you can possibly take. Ridiculously long half life, easily detectable, very difficult to mask If even possible. This stuff would be caught by the previous tests administered by the NSAC before USADA even became a factor.

It's just always been odd to me that In a USADA era that anyone would mess with turinabol . Especially when you're rich and have money and likely access to high level undetectable designer steroids with short half lives and superior effects.

Jones has always been known to make smart, non-impulsive decisions, and to learn from his mistakes.

LOL at the hoops youre jumping through to fit your narrative.

 

[acannxr]

I'm sure if you asked the guy he would explain it.

There's only one study, and it has a sample size of one, and the person who conducted the study used himself as the test subject (a 50 year old, non-athlete). That's the "science" that everyone is citing, it's also the basis for policy changes within the WADA code (which many experts have criticized).

People are clinging to the pulsing theory because they've got money riding on Jones (UFC, USADA) or they're biased fans (see Sherdog), meanwhile something that actually exists like microdosing, is given no time of day because money and fanboys cloud objectivity.

 

[Ying Li]

WME is ruining the UFCs reputation with these public disclosures. They need to do in house testing and shut this shit up. Embarrassing. WME IMG = Jokesters.

Suspending these guys for 2 years is beyond fucking stupid, for the company, sport and fighters. If somebody tests positive sweep it under the rug and ban them for 8 months max.

Enough of this bullshit.

 

[Corona]

Lol at this circus.

 

[MescalineDreams]

I think you are misrepresenting what Mir said. He was clearly and explicitly contrasting how he was treated differently than Jones for a similar offense. He was calling bullshit on the way Jones is getting special treatement.

Here: "In the spring of 2016, when USADA representatives sat in my Las Vegas kitchen and told me that the turinabol metabolite that they said I tested positive for could only have been ingested within a window of the past several months, I vehemently proclaimed my innocence. Having never failed any drug test throughout my career, I asked if we could go back further in the past to test any supplements that I could’ve taken, but they claimed that was both impossible and unnecessary. They were firm on their assertion that there was only a recent period of several months that would warrant any consideration. Now, little more than two years later, Jon Jones has tested positive for the same trace of the same banned substance, and USADA is taking the position that this same low level is in fact not a new ingestion, but something that could be the result of a residual “pulsing” effect that could potentially stay in his system “forever”. Further, they are now claiming that this phenomenon is something that they are seeing in other cases as well.

This latest shift in USADA’s position would seem to suggest one of two possibilities…Either they are a) offering special dispensation to Jon Jones or b) they are second guessing and subsequently “revising” the presentation of their own science. Either scenario leaves myself and a number of other fighters whose careers have been similarly damaged by past testing claims to wonder what this says about USADA’s consistency and their tests’ reliability. Sadly, my accusation came at a time when the UFC’s partnership with USADA had not yet been subjected to the kind of doubt that now seems to further cloud it with each new instance of convoluted circumstances."

https://mmajunkie.com/2018/12/ufc-232-frank-mir-questions-usada-after-jon-jones-drug-test

here it is

“It is frustrating to now be told that USADA has changed their mind about the February 5 test, claiming that the sample they once cleared is now clouded with the same trace metabolite,” Mir said in the Facebook statement. “Even more frustrating is that I've been told that the long term metabolite could date back two years, prior to the implementation of USADA standards and possibly to a time when I had a legal exemption for testosterone replacement therapy.”

https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/4/...issues-statement-on-two-year-usada-suspension

 

[Oooxente]

Something's gotta give here, they can't keep using this as an excuse to let Jon be on steroids perpetually. As long as he keeps taking Turinabol in a window of time that only the M3 metabolite shows up, he has a license to juice.

Ohh they will keep using that excuse.
Bet money on it.