My Morning Contribution: Obama, the Great Pragmatist

[Overtures]

I haven't read much of this but I think it's interesting how easy it is to rephrase things in order to see your fav president in a favorable light. For instance, @AviatorShades has said that Trump is stupid but still better than Obama/Clinton because his policies have yet to result in disaster.

Thats absurd; Shades moved the goalpost to such a specific criterion that it's almost impossible to judge a president. After thinking about that, I wondered if I had done the same thing. The answer is that, yes, I have rephrased success with the express purpose of finding a positive.

Obviously, there's substance to this rephrasing worth unpacking, which I really didn't do much of in the OP. At any rate, I'm not a bitch.

Lastly, I think we should stick to a general/broad criteria when judging a president: a little bit of this, a little bit of that, etc. If we do this, we force ourselves to be bi-partisan to some extent, plus we get a better picture.

That said, Trump doesn't pass the eyeball test from the start.


He blows a dick, and if he succeeds where Obama failed, it's almost irrelevant.

 

[Overtures]

Trump is a fat fuck with bitch tits who wears granny panties while playing tennis.

best post of all time

 

[Overtures]

Obama did heinous thing like act nice to a CHILD who was FALSELY accused of bringing a bomb to school. Things like that put race relations back, you know, by not being bigoted enough for the far right.

Thanks Obama.

Oh, and who can forget about Michelle Obama wanting KIDS to eat HEALTHIER at school. She was poisoning the children.

Thanks Michelle Obama.

Then they celebrate their evil ways doing the "terrorist fist jab" together.

bruh bruh weren't you a former Trump supporter? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

bruh bruh weren't you a former Trump supporter? Or am I mistaken?

Yes, you're right, I was. I was on the wagon, thinking he was saying shit just to win the republican nomination, and I expected him to moderate after.

Then I realized he was a complete fucktard, and like anyone with any sense of decency and intellectual honesty, I got off the bandwagon.

 

[AviatorShades]

I haven't read much of this but I think it's interesting how easy it is to rephrase things in order to see your fav president in a favorable light. For instance, @AviatorShades has said that Trump is stupid but still better than Obama/Clinton because his policies have yet to result in disaster.

Thats absurd; Shades moved the goalpost to such a specific criterion that it's almost impossible to judge a president. After thinking about that, I wondered if I had done the same thing. The answer is that, yes, I have rephrased success with the express purpose of finding a positive.

Obviously, there's substance to this rephrasing worth unpacking, which I really didn't do much of in the OP. At any rate, I'm not a bitch.

Lastly, I think we should stick to a general/broad criteria when judging a president: a little bit of this, a little bit of that, etc. If we do this, we force ourselves to be bi-partisan to some extent, plus we get a better picture.

That said, Trump doesn't pass the eyeball test from the start.


He blows a dick, and if he succeeds where Obama failed, it's almost irrelevant.

Where did I ever say any of that?

He hasn't even had a window for disaster (1 yr in office+at war with the courts) and he's not my 'fav president'. Doesn't sound like something I'd say.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Really as bad as Obama? That's so fucking silly to even begin to suggest that land
Obama was as bad as Bush.

Obama at his worst just didn't accomplish much. Bush literally fucked things up for decades. I don't see how anyone can objectively say that.

Can you even name the specific things that makes Obama bad? He literally turned around the economy, saved major companies, and killed Osama bin Laden.

I voted for trump and imo Bush is the worst president in history. 9/11 was the worst attack on our homeland. In the following months never had our country been so United. .. There was no talk of racism or class warfare. All those labels disappeared and we all could see our common bond and demanded action.

He took this rare and monumental moment and ran a round the clock sales pitch that we had to invade Iraq and set us on course for a quagmire that still exists today and the saddest loss of out treasure and warriors. If we continue on our downward spiral someday the history books will point to this decision as the beginning of the end.

As a bonus he proceeded to crash the economy and hand a trillion bucks off to his cronies.

Obama cannot touch how horrible bush was but to be fair nobody can. That doesn't mean that Obama was not an utter POS. First thing that POS did was hand out a trillion bucks to his constituents in his so called stimulus bill.

His foreign policy was a complete joke. .. bragging about the Arab spring? Aka the further meltdown of the ME? It's as if he learned nothing from bush.

Race relations. The guy had an extremely rare opportunity to bridge the gap between white and black and bring us into a truly post racial society. Instead he never missed an opportunity to race bait and foment class warfare.

Obama care. ..well everyone knows this was a total pos.


Honestly he was terrible but the fact that he was so inept helped to slow his reign of terror.

 

[DoomPatrol]

I voted for trump and imo Bush is the worst president in history. 9/11 was the worst attack on our homeland. In the following months never had our country been so United. .. There was no talk of racism or class warfare. All those labels disappeared and we all could see our common bond and demanded action.

He took this rare and monumental moment and ran a round the clock sales pitch that we had to invade Iraq and set us on course for a quagmire that still exists today and the saddest loss of out treasure and warriors. If we continue on our downward spiral someday the history books will point to this decision as the beginning of the end.

As a bonus he proceeded to crash the economy and hand a trillion bucks off to his cronies.

Obama cannot touch how horrible bush was but to be fair nobody can. That doesn't mean that Obama was not an utter POS. First thing that POS did was hand out a trillion bucks to his constituents in his so called stimulus bill.

His foreign policy was a complete joke. .. bragging about the Arab spring? Aka the further meltdown of the ME? It's as if he learned nothing from bush.

Race relations. The guy had an extremely rare opportunity to bridge the gap between white and black and bring us into a truly post racial society. Instead he never missed an opportunity to race bait and foment class warfare.

Obama care. ..well everyone knows this was a total pos.


Honestly he was terrible but the fact that he was so inept helped to slow his reign of terror.

Well of course he spent a lot of money on the Stimulus Bill, aka the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. He was trying to turn around the Bush era depression. And from what I've seen, it did some good. I wouldn't exactly call him a POS for doing it. It was spread out in personal tax breaks, business tax breaks, healthcare and education. It helped everyone, not just his constituents. It helped everyone but the extremely wealthy, but it wasn't as successful as they wished.

He did have a bunch of foreign policy issues, but I liked that he pushed us back towards Afghanistan and out of Iraq. Iraq was always destined to crumble after we left. So unless you wanted us there for another decade, he needed to pull out. Syria was definitely a mess. Didn't pull the trigger and let Russia get involved for the other side basically ensuring we'd never turn over Assad. Plus he killed Bin Laden.

And I have to extremely disagree with this idea that he was some race baiter. Pretending like there aren't racial issues in America is fucking silly. He simply sees it from a side that no other President's ever has. Trump is ruining race relations. Obama sure as fuck didn't. This is one thing that is pure bullshit. President Obama is one of the most moderate and well spoken of our time. You're talking about the guy they literally call the "community organizer". Pointing out systematic problems in the system isn't a bad thing. There's no fucking way the guy was going to turn this nation into a "post-racial society" like you're talking about. It's nonsense until you address issues in the society that make it a racial society. I'm a white guy in a divided city and a black girlfriend. I definitely see racist shit all the time. You can't pretend like it doesn't happen.

And yeah, Obamacare it's a failure because The Republican party did literally everything possible to make it fail. His idea is certainly possible, but the right doesn't want it to work. It's really that simple. It's like if I broke your car's engine so I could then turn around and talk shit about how your car doesn't run.

I'm not even a Democrat, but I can see that President Obama was one of the better we've had in the last few decades.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Well of course he spent a lot of money on the Stimulus Bill, aka the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. He was trying to turn around the Bush era depression. And from what I've seen, it did some good. I wouldn't exactly call him a POS for doing it. It was spread out in personal tax breaks, business tax breaks, healthcare and education. It helped everyone, not just his constituents. It helped everyone but the extremely wealthy, but it wasn't as successful as they wished.

He did have a bunch of foreign policy issues, but I liked that he pushed us back towards Afghanistan and out of Iraq. Iraq was always destined to crumble after we left. So unless you wanted us there for another decade, he needed to pull out. Syria was definitely a mess. Didn't pull the trigger and let Russia get involved for the other side basically ensuring we'd never turn over Assad. Plus he killed Bin Laden.

And I have to extremely disagree with this idea that he was some race baiter. Pretending like there aren't racial issues in America is fucking silly. He simply sees it from a side that no other President's ever has. Trump is ruining race relations. Obama sure as fuck didn't. This is one thing that is pure bullshit. President Obama is one of the most moderate and well spoken of our time. You're talking about the guy they literally call the "community organizer". Pointing out systematic problems in the system isn't a bad thing. There's no fucking way the guy was going to turn this nation into a "post-racial society" like you're talking about. It's nonsense until you address issues in the society that make it a racial society. I'm a white guy in a divided city and a black girlfriend. I definitely see racist shit all the time. You can't pretend like it doesn't happen.

And yeah, Obamacare it's a failure because The Republican party did literally everything possible to make it fail. His idea is certainly possible, but the right doesn't want it to work. It's really that simple. It's like if I broke your car's engine so I could then turn around and talk shit about how your car doesn't run.

I'm not even a Democrat, but I can see that President Obama was one of the better we've had in the last few decades.

He should have focused on the fact that racism is a human problem and not a white one. That everybody is capable of it and that it's wrong in all forms. He should have focused on the incredible progress we have made, going from Jim crow to a black president in a couple generations.

Fact is, black people born in the last 20 years know nothing about true racism. Their ancestors suffered and toiled to get to this point and instead of capitalizing on it they are squandering it by blaming others for their problems.

When politicians, liberals, pundits talk about racism today what they are actually talking about is RESULTS.

Blacks are more likely to be in poverty, in prison, single family homes, do shitty in school, etc etc etc. These stats are constantly pointed to as proof of racism when really the why is the question. That's the question nobody wants to discuss honestly.

 

[FIMN]

He should have focused on the fact that racism is a human problem and not a white one. That everybody is capable of it and that it's wrong in all forms. He should have focused on the incredible progress we have made, going from Jim crow to a black president in a couple generations.

Fact is, black people born in the last 20 years know nothing about true racism. Their ancestors suffered and toiled to get to this point and instead of capitalizing on it they are squandering it by blaming others for their problems.

When politicians, liberals, pundits talk about racism today what they are actually talking about is RESULTS.

Blacks are more likely to be in poverty, in prison, single family homes, do shitty in school, etc etc etc. These stats are constantly pointed to as proof of racism when really the why is the question. That's the question nobody wants to discuss honestly.

It seems you just wanted him to share your exact view based on your life experience. But that wasn't his job.

If you think racism is dead in the US you ought to read the DoJ reports on Baltimore and Ferguson, and realise that black communities still haven't recovered from the mass incarceration of minorities in the 80s and 90s. This isn't a long time ago.

60% of Trump voters think Obama is a muslim or not born in the US. Let that sink in.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Well of course he spent a lot of money on the Stimulus Bill, aka the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. He was trying to turn around the Bush era depression. And from what I've seen, it did some good. I wouldn't exactly call him a POS for doing it. It was spread out in personal tax breaks, business tax breaks, healthcare and education. It helped everyone, not just his constituents. It helped everyone but the extremely wealthy, but it wasn't as successful as they wished.

He did have a bunch of foreign policy issues, but I liked that he pushed us back towards Afghanistan and out of Iraq. Iraq was always destined to crumble after we left. So unless you wanted us there for another decade, he needed to pull out. Syria was definitely a mess. Didn't pull the trigger and let Russia get involved for the other side basically ensuring we'd never turn over Assad. Plus he killed Bin Laden.

And I have to extremely disagree with this idea that he was some race baiter. Pretending like there aren't racial issues in America is fucking silly. He simply sees it from a side that no other President's ever has. Trump is ruining race relations. Obama sure as fuck didn't. This is one thing that is pure bullshit. President Obama is one of the most moderate and well spoken of our time. You're talking about the guy they literally call the "community organizer". Pointing out systematic problems in the system isn't a bad thing. There's no fucking way the guy was going to turn this nation into a "post-racial society" like you're talking about. It's nonsense until you address issues in the society that make it a racial society. I'm a white guy in a divided city and a black girlfriend. I definitely see racist shit all the time. You can't pretend like it doesn't happen.

And yeah, Obamacare it's a failure because The Republican party did literally everything possible to make it fail. His idea is certainly possible, but the right doesn't want it to work. It's really that simple. It's like if I broke your car's engine so I could then turn around and talk shit about how your car doesn't run.

I'm not even a Democrat, but I can see that President Obama was one of the better we've had in the last few decades.

 

[kahiljabroni]

It seems you just wanted him to share your exact view based on your life experience. But that wasn't his job.

If you think racism is dead in the US you ought to read the DoJ reports on Baltimore and Ferguson, and realise that black communities still haven't recovered from the mass incarceration of minorities in the 80s and 90s. This isn't a long time ago.

60% of Trump voters think Obama is a muslim or not born in the US. Let that sink in.

No I just think it would be much more productive to focus on the progress we've made instead of the negative. And when I say more productive I mean for black people.

Why don't you tell me in your own words about it?

 

[MicroBrew]

Obama is one of the worst presidents in the history of our country.
Just a dumbass, effeminate guy that did not make a single good policy.

He didn't let Hillary,McCain,Lindsay Graham, NeoCons, the Saudis,Qataris,Emiratis and Turks railroad him into taking out Assad, thereby ensuring a jihadist victory.

 

[MicroBrew]

Serious, you think Obama is a hard and tougher guy than Trump?

Trump is uber sensitive and touchy. He takes things way too personally , and has to issue a comeback for any criticism.

 

[FIMN]

No I just think it would be much more productive to focus on the progress we've made instead of the negative. And when I say more productive I mean for black people.

Why don't you tell me in your own words about it?

Again you just want others to share your opinion, rather than you engage with theirs. Obama wasn't some kind of racial radical - if you believe that you've truly swallowed the propaganda.

Read the summaries yourself.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-doj-report-20160809-story.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...el-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

These are from the last couple of years. Do you think these are isolated cases?

 

[kahiljabroni]

Again you just want others to share your opinion, rather than you engage with theirs. Obama wasn't some kind of racial radical - if you believe that you've truly swallowed the propaganda.

Read the summaries yourself.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-doj-report-20160809-story.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/nationa...el-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

These are from the last couple of years. Do you think these are isolated cases?

Aren't we all just trying to make others see our way? This is a message board afterall.


Again you just brushed over everything I wrote.

 

[kahiljabroni]

No I just think it would be much more productive to focus on the progress we've made instead of the negative. And when I say more productive I mean for black people.

Why don't you tell me in your own words about it?

Here FIMN I'll give you another shot to address what I actually wrote.

 

[FIMN]

Aren't we all just trying to make others see our way? This is a message board afterall.


Again you just brushed over everything I wrote.

I'm talking about you wanting Obama to see things your way and writing his opinion off if he doesn't as though he's some kind of radical.

You asked me to put something in my own words - instead I linked you to a summary which links to the reports I mentioned. Remember this started when you said there were disparities in results between races, but not due to racist causes. I've linked evidence that directly contradicts your claim.

 

[kahiljabroni]

I'm talking about you wanting Obama to see things your way and writing his opinion off if he doesn't as though he's some kind of radical.

You asked me to put something in my own words - instead I linked you to a summary which links to the reports I mentioned. Remember this started when you said there were disparities in results between races, but not due to racist causes. I've linked evidence that directly contradicts your claim.

I'm talking to you, not Obama. I'm critiquing him and you chimed in so why don't you tell me where I'm wrong.

Obviously everybody has a different perspective and they usually speak from that position. My point was that Obama was in a position of extreme influence and it would have been much better for race relations if he focused on the progress we've made and not pick at scabs.


Do you not think we've made remarkable progress relative to other societies throughout history?

Or do you not think it would be more productive to do so?



As for your link, I'm not going to click on it. I don't partake in the exchange of links on such a subjective topic. If you can't summarize what it says then you obviously don't understand it.

 

[FIMN]

I'm talking to you, not Obama. I'm critiquing him and you chimed in so why don't you tell me where I'm wrong.

Obviously everybody has a different perspective and they usually speak from that position. My point was that Obama was in a position of extreme influence and it would have been much better for race relations if he focused on the progress we've made and not pick at scabs.


Do you not think we've made remarkable progress relative to other societies throughout history?

Or do you not think it would be more productive to do so?



As for your link, I'm not going to click on it. I don't partake in the exchange of links on such a subjective topic. If you can't summarize what it says then you obviously don't understand it.

The first two videos I looked at on yt include Obama praising the progress made. I suspect I could find more if I kept looking. He's not a racial radical by any stretch.

If you can't be bothered to read a summary of reports consisting of hundreds of pages, but instead want me to summarise summaries, that comes across as low effort and not in the spirit of actual debate. It seems you won't look because it contradicts your beliefs. It's sat in front of you but you won't read because you want me to reinvent the wheel.

It's not like I linked you to the original reports

 

[FIMN]

@kahiljabroni



Please watch this, the two videos above and the Selma speech. Plenty if references to progress made but more work to do. What's wrong with that?