Official Women's MMA Discussion Thread #12

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What's really interesting is that people are saying now that Jessica Andrade does belong at BW after beating Larissa Pacheco while Rin already doesn't belong at BW after losing to Miesha, but let's look at their last couple big wins prior to their last fight. Andrade beat an aged veteran in Rosi Sexton and a journeywoman in Racquel Pennington, and Nakai also beat an aged veteran in Tara Larosa and a journeywoman in Sarah D'Alelio - whose best win is more impressive than Pennington's. But because Andrade beat a prospect untested against high level comp and Rin lost to the number 2 former champion, Jessica now belongs and Rin doesn't. Also, Andrade got finished by Carmouche who was defeated by... Miesha Tate, and Rin only lost by decision to Tate. Plus there's almost no difference in size between them.

Funny how little anything besides the last fight's result counts in Sherdog's eyes XD
 
leto1776 said:
Yeah. It just drives me nuts when people act like cutting weight is soooooo easy, when it's anything but. You can tell that those people have never had to go through a weight cut of any kind. I have, it 's not easy, and to say it sucks would be the understatement of the year. 11 years after I finished wrestling in high school, the dieting and weight cutting still has long term effects on my digestive system.

Also so sick of hearing Dolce's name come up all the time, like his word is gospel or something. Talk about a hype train.
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To be fair to some of the comments I have seen, their point was more along the lines of it not seeming like she really cuts much (if any) weight to fight at 135. Don't know if that is true or not, but if it is true than I can see their argument that she could likely make it to 115.
 
Jojofan said:
To be fair to some of the comments I have seen, their point was more along the lines of it not seeming like she really cuts much (if any) weight to fight at 135. Don't know if that is true or not, but if it is true than I can see their argument that she could likely make it to 115.
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Saying that she doesn't cut to make 135 is a wild assumption and I would seriously doubt it. She used to fight at 145, Jessica Andrade is virtually the same height with a less hulked out upper body and cut from 146, and Alexandra Albu who apparently does walk around at 135 looks much lighter than Rin. I would guess that Alexis Davis doesn't cut weight before guessing that Nakai doesn't, although Davis also does cut.
 
Man if Jessica Eye and Andrade went to 125 would be really good.

Also I join to the fuck Dolce hype train, people believing he can do no wrong, whereas most fighters get on weight most of the time.
 
Steve4192 said:
Blech.

D'Alelio has been awful lately. There is no way she deserves a match with Cyborg at this point. Evinger is a much better matchup. If she springs the upset, she'd not only get into the UFC, she'd be 'in the mix' for a shot at Ronda.
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I hate that matchup (Evinger v Cris) because it keeps the loser out of the UFC and both deserve to be there. Tonya has only lost to Top 5 talents McMann and Alexis Davis in her last ten fights. She's better than at least half of the current UFC WBW roster and would increase its depth. But if she were steamrolled by Cris, a Top 3 talent IMO, she would be completely ignored by Sean Shelby and miss her window.

If Cyborg lost to Triple-threat, she would be labeled as overrated and we would never get to see her on a UFC card. D'Alelio might be a journey woman, but the people she's lost to is a who's who of the WBW Top 10-- she even has a win over Amanda Nunes. She called Cyborg out on twitter a few months back and I say let them fight.
 
Charlie77 said:
I hate that matchup (Evinger v Cris) because it keeps the loser out of the UFC and both deserve to be there. Tonya has only lost to Top 5 talents McMann and Alexis Davis in her last ten fights. She's better than at least half of the current UFC WBW roster and would increase its depth. But if she were steamrolled by Cris, a Top 3 talent IMO, she would be completely ignored by Sean Shelby and miss her window.

If Cyborg lost to Triple-threat, she would be labeled as overrated and we would never get to see her on a UFC card. D'Alelio might be a journey woman, but the people she's lost to is a who's who of the WBW Top 10-- she even has a win over Amanda Nunes. She called Cyborg out on twitter a few months back and I say let them fight.
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Why you think that?
As replacement fighters or new signings UFC seems doesn't care about the last outcoming, they signed Leslie Smith @ BW and she was coming out of a loss @ FLW.

If the need new top fighters they give a look to the rankings and the only fighter in the BW ranking or top 15 that isn't in UFC is Tonya.
 
Charlie77 said:
I hate that matchup (Evinger v Cris) because it keeps the loser out of the UFC and both deserve to be there. Tonya has only lost to Top 5 talents McMann and Alexis Davis in her last ten fights. She's better than at least half of the current UFC WBW roster and would increase its depth. But if she were steamrolled by Cris, a Top 3 talent IMO, she would be completely ignored by Sean Shelby and miss her window.

If Cyborg lost to Triple-threat, she would be labeled as overrated and we would never get to see her on a UFC card. D'Alelio might be a journey woman, but the people she's lost to is a who's who of the WBW Top 10-- she even has a win over Amanda Nunes. She called Cyborg out on twitter a few months back and I say let them fight.
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Even if her losses are all against top-10ers, she's still on a 3 fight losing streak! With her last loss to dwarfy Rin Nakai who just got dominated by an uninspired Miesha Tate (note: I don't necessarily agree with that summary of the Nakai-Tate fight, but apparently quite a lot of people see it that way).
Having Cris fight D'Alelio only gives fuel to the all-Cyborg's-opponents-are-cans crowd, no matter the actual outcome of the fight.


And if extending the UFC's WBW division is your main concern, Cyborg-Evinger is better than Cyborg-D'Alelio as well.
With the former there's a very good chance that you'll get at least one new fighter for UFC's w135, maybe even 2 (I agree with VolkHan that a loss to Cyborg wouldn't ruin Tonya's chances to get picked up as a replacement).
With the latter on the other hand, there's a realistic chance you get ZERO. If Cyborg somehow manages to lose to Sarah D'Alelio then we can pretty much forget seeing Cris in the UFC. And for D'Alelio probably even a win against Cyborg wouldn't be enough to get into the UFC, seeing as she'd still be 1-3 in her last 4 fights (plus iirc D'Alelio even said she isn't too interested in the UFC anyway...). If Cyborg wins, it's still quite likely that Dana could say she needs some more wins against better opponents before they sign her.
 
Felis said:
Even if her losses are all against top-10ers, she's still on a 3 fight losing streak! With her last loss to dwarfy Rin Nakai who just got dominated by an uninspired Miesha Tate (note: I don't necessarily agree with that summary of the Nakai-Tate fight, but apparently quite a lot of people see it that way).
Having Cris fight D'Alelio only gives fuel to the all-Cyborg's-opponents-are-cans crowd, no matter the actual outcome of the fight.


And if extending the UFC's WBW division is your main concern, Cyborg-Evinger is better than Cyborg-D'Alelio as well.
With the former there's a very good chance that you'll get at least one new fighter for UFC's w135, maybe even 2 (I agree with VolkHan that a loss to Cyborg wouldn't ruin Tonya's chances to get picked up as a replacement).
With the latter on the other hand, there's a realistic chance you get ZERO. If Cyborg somehow manages to lose to Sarah D'Alelio then we can pretty much forget seeing Cris in the UFC. And for D'Alelio probably even a win against Cyborg wouldn't be enough to get into the UFC, seeing as she'd still be 1-3 in her last 4 fights (plus iirc D'Alelio even said she isn't too interested in the UFC anyway...). If Cyborg wins, it's still quite likely that Dana could say she needs some more wins against better opponents before they sign her.
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I pretty much agree with this, D'alelio is probably too weak of opponent for cyborg, if only gnomes won then that match would be obvious. Too bad nakamoto isn't ready to fight yet. Also if invicta makes D'alelio vs Cyborg they are really keeping up with the weak/mismatch main event pattern. I know it's hard to find contenders for these divisions but still makes you wonder can they really not come up with a better match up. Anyways Barb's match up isn't nearly as bad as Waterson's and am not that familiar with 125ers that are not in invicta so I can't really think of much better match ups either. Doesn't feel like anyone is a threat to barb atm it's weird I recall a list of the number of fighter in each division and 125 had the most but it's like they are nearly all unknowns who are the legit top flyweight's anyways?

Mizuki vs Karolina is an very interesting fight and isn't karolina pretty highly regarded I've only seen one of her fights I believe. I didn't think they would make this fight at this point.
 
What about Rin Nakai at Atomweight and Junior dos Santos at Lightweight? For that matter, what about Jon Jones versus Mighty Mouse who then cuts to Atomweight when he loses? I think when we propose weight cuts we need to be bolder.
 
underdogftw said:
I pretty much agree with this, D'alelio is probably too weak of opponent for cyborg, if only gnomes won then that match would be obvious. Too bad nakamoto isn't ready to fight yet. Also if invicta makes D'alelio vs Cyborg they are really keeping up with the weak/mismatch main event pattern. I know it's hard to find contenders for these divisions but still makes you wonder can they really not come up with a better match up. Anyways Barb's match up isn't nearly as bad as Waterson's and am not that familiar with 125ers that are not in invicta so I can't really think of much better match ups either. Doesn't feel like anyone is a threat to barb atm it's weird I recall a list of the number of fighter in each division and 125 had the most but it's like they are nearly all unknowns who are the legit top flyweight's anyways?

Mizuki vs Karolina is an very interesting fight and isn't karolina pretty highly regarded I've only seen one of her fights I believe. I didn't think they would make this fight at this point.
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Karolina isn't ranked among the top 10-15 but is highly talked in the environment, I saw more articles about her than e.g. about Faria or Jędrzejczyk; is the KSW champ with notable wins over Soukupova (#7 AW) and Cive, and if you consider only the Invicta FC SW fighters the only top 15 are Katja, Mizuki, Tiburcio (but now is @ AW) and Eggink (had her title shot), not counting Zoila (#8 FLW) that will move down to SW.

I think Mizuki vs Karolina is a very good title eliminator for Invicta with 2 of the most skilled fighters around.

I think also is one of the most interesting stylistical matchup, hardly u c a Shoot Boxing champ vs. a Krav Maga instructor in MMA, and Karolina is probably the most accomplished Krav Maga pratictioner in all MMA.
 
DEEP JEWELS 6 update
Monday 11.03.2014 at 04:00 AM ET
Venue: Shinjiku FACE
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Enclosure: Ring

AW TITLE FIGHT: Seo Hee Ham (14-5) vs. Saori Ishioka (13-7)
SW: Emi Fujino (13-8) vs. Ayaka Miura (1-0)
SW: Tomo Maesawa (3-4) vs. Yuko Oya (8-3)
AW: Satomi Takano (3-4) vs. Mina Kurobe (3-0)
BW: Shizuka Sugiyama (11-4-1) vs. Yurika Nakakura (3-1)
 
Hamasaki is my favorite Asian WMMA fighter right now. Love how she has no fear of fighting outside of Japan/Korea and still wins.

If she and Waterson get matched up next year... that will be must see.
 
underdogftw said:
I pretty much agree with this, D'alelio is probably too weak of opponent for cyborg, if only gnomes won then that match would be obvious. Too bad nakamoto isn't ready to fight yet. Also if invicta makes D'alelio vs Cyborg they are really keeping up with the weak/mismatch main event pattern. I know it's hard to find contenders for these divisions but still makes you wonder can they really not come up with a better match up. Anyways Barb's match up isn't nearly as bad as Waterson's and am not that familiar with 125ers that are not in invicta so I can't really think of much better match ups either. Doesn't feel like anyone is a threat to barb atm it's weird I recall a list of the number of fighter in each division and 125 had the most but it's like they are nearly all unknowns who are the legit top flyweight's anyways?

Mizuki vs Karolina is an very interesting fight and isn't karolina pretty highly regarded I've only seen one of her fights I believe. I didn't think they would make this fight at this point.
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> Either way it's going to be a mismatch. Cyborg is a Top 3 fighter and she's going to be matched against someone outside of the UFC. With that in mind it's going to be someone ranked 25 or worse. Going off of Tapology's rankings because they're deeper than any others, Tony Evinger is ranked at No. 20th and D'Alelio is No. 27. Anyone else that you look at as a possibility will be much lower. Other options of fighters with at least 5 wins could include Brenda Gonzalez-44 or Ediane Gomez-32 and they're all lower than D'Alelio.

Not sure why you would think Evinger would get into the UFC off of a loss. She's on a current five-fight win streak and she hasn't been invited to dance in the Octagon. I doubt a loss would suddenly convince the Zuffa matchmakers to sign her. It's kind of rediculous that she's a Top 12 talent, and there are 27 other women signed to fight in the UFC ahead of her.
 
Bellator's first lady fight is a 152 lb. catchweight. Jozette Cotton vs Holly Lawson. I had too google Lawson. She has a 5-2 pro boxing record and has been doing MMA training for just under a year.

Not the greatest way to kickstart a division, but if they eventually churn out a star or two it'll be worth it.
 
SeverianB said:
Hamasaki is my favorite Asian WMMA fighter right now. Love how she has no fear of fighting outside of Japan/Korea and still wins.

If she and Waterson get matched up next year... that will be must see.
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I agree. I thought Hamasaki looked very good at 105 lbs when she fought at that weight during the recent DEEP Jewels. It looked like her proper weight class. I think fighting Claudia Gadelha was a wake-up call for her with regard to the importance of weight-cutting for full advantage in the cage.
 
thatdude21601 said:
Bellator's first lady fight is a 152 lb. catchweight. Jozette Cotton vs Holly Lawson. I had too google Lawson. She has a 5-2 pro boxing record and has been doing MMA training for just under a year.

Not the greatest way to kickstart a division, but if they eventually churn out a star or two it'll be worth it.
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omg is a LW bout!
Hopefully they'll have one more tournament to crown a FW champ, of course they need more FWs but they signed some top fighters recently.
 
Sherdoggy said:
What about Rin Nakai at Atomweight and Junior dos Santos at Lightweight? For that matter, what about Jon Jones versus Mighty Mouse who then cuts to Atomweight when he loses? I think when we propose weight cuts we need to be bolder.
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Ronda Rousey should fight at SW. After all she's 5'6 while Stephanie Eggink is 5'8 and Joanne Calderwood is also 5'6, clearly she's too short to be at BW.

Also if you have trouble imposing your wrestling-based gameplan against one of the 2 best wrestlers in a division while having no striking to set up your takedowns, it's clearly a sign you're too small for that division. If Phil Davis has trouble taking down Dan Cormier and gets boxed up by him, that means Phil Davis is too small for LHW and should drop down to WW.
 
BigMuffler said:
Ronda Rousey should fight at SW. After all she's 5'6 while Stephanie Eggink is 5'8 and Joanne Calderwood is also 5'6, clearly she's too short to be at BW.

Also if you have trouble imposing your wrestling-based gameplan against one of the 2 best wrestlers in a division while having no striking to set up your takedowns, it's clearly a sign you're too small for that division. If Phil Davis has trouble taking down Dan Cormier and gets boxed up by him, that means Phil Davis is too small for LHW and should drop down to WW.
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Yeah, you might have overdone it with that appeal to ridicule.
It's a very common thing that stocky, hulking, fighters drop a weight class or even two, because reach advantage and leverage matters.
Never was that more apparent than in the Miesha fight.
 
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