Realistic knife defence against resistance. Combat sports based.

My instructor saw a study of several hundred knife attacks, he said in not one of them did the attacker switch the knife to the other hand during the attack. Assume it could happen but probably not worth training for. In a karate school, the instructor used magic markers for knife defense. The black belts faced the lower belts who had the magic markers. After the exercise, the black belts looked like clowns. I agree with
4daLuLZ. During high school, I asked a police officer what he does if attacked by the knife. He said "take 3 steps back quickly, draw your firearm and fire.

The question is at how many of this videos, the defenders gave at least some minimal resistance which required switching hands. given that most people have not even a minimal idea of a minimally effective way to deal with the situation, and given that even experienced athletes/ martial artists, which are in the minority, can resist a knife at best with bleak results- The answer is probably close to 0.

Therefore when talking about more effective techniques, which do give a minimal chance, I think that the question of an attacker switching the blade from hand to hand becomes more relevant.

Thus, The comment of DoctorTao supports my assumption.

I remember bringing this up when talking to you about it earlier. This would happen in sparring if we went 2 on 1 for too long
 
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Ok this is just my experience so take it as you please.

I trained "knife fighting " for many years under a number of different styles. Also trained martial arts for many longs years. Probably longer then many of you have been alive. However again this is just my personal take but I wanted to let you know a bit on where I was coming from.

If the knife is a threat and the person is untrained you have the best chance if you are well trained. This is because they are hesitant and tend to get the knife out in front of their body exposing to and the arm. This makes it easier to close the distance and control the knife and arm which is your number 1 priority.

From there your your odds go down to 0 on not getting cut. So you only engage unarmed if you have absolutely no choice. Your first choice is always find or have a weapon. You should look for anything that can be used as a weapon. That should in fact be a part of your training. There are weapons almost everywhere you go. Learn to identify and how to use them effectively.

You must control the arm and but doing that with someone with much training is very hard to accomplish.

I have had many black belts they came to the gym where I trained to demonstrate "knife defense ". They would demonstrate many techniques which worked great along as you did as they said. I would say that that was fine but could you do that when the training went live. Most agreed they would be able to. I used all kinds of training knifes. The rubber ones are shit and ineffective for any real training. Wooden are a little better. I like metal ones better. I have a number aluminum ones that are good and some real knifes that were dulled and slightly modified I like. I went to shock knifes which are far better in many training situations. This is what I use because they hurt when you make contact and many can be set to realy hurt enough to disrupt anything you planned. Having been stabbed before I can tell you it hurt and will throw you off your game.

Well none of the show worked. We have tried both standing and rolling. Rolling you are very likely to get cut and stabbed. Even very skilled ground people if the person with the knife is skilled.
Well this is getting long but I will trade information with anyone if they wish.
 
Ok this is just my experience so take it as you please.

I trained "knife fighting " for many years under a number of different styles. Also trained martial arts for many longs years. Probably longer then many of you have been alive. However again this is just my personal take but I wanted to let you know a bit on where I was coming from.

If the knife is a threat and the person is untrained you have the best chance if you are well trained. This is because they are hesitant and tend to get the knife out in front of their body exposing to and the arm. This makes it easier to close the distance and control the knife and arm which is your number 1 priority.

From there your your odds go down to 0 on not getting cut. So you only engage unarmed if you have absolutely no choice. Your first choice is always find or have a weapon. You should look for anything that can be used as a weapon. That should in fact be a part of your training. There are weapons almost everywhere you go. Learn to identify and how to use them effectively.

You must control the arm and but doing that with someone with much training is very hard to accomplish.

I have had many black belts they came to the gym where I trained to demonstrate "knife defense ". They would demonstrate many techniques which worked great along as you did as they said. I would say that that was fine but could you do that when the training went live. Most agreed they would be able to. I used all kinds of training knifes. The rubber ones are shit and ineffective for any real training. Wooden are a little better. I like metal ones better. I have a number aluminum ones that are good and some real knifes that were dulled and slightly modified I like. I went to shock knifes which are far better in many training situations. This is what I use because they hurt when you make contact and many can be set to realy hurt enough to disrupt anything you planned. Having been stabbed before I can tell you it hurt and will throw you off your game.

Well none of the show worked. We have tried both standing and rolling. Rolling you are very likely to get cut and stabbed. Even very skilled ground people if the person with the knife is skilled.
Well this is getting long but I will trade information with anyone if they wish.

Hey! Thanks for sharing your experience. I completely agree with you that you should engage a knife only if you don't have an alternative (like during knife terror attacks when kids/ family are nearby) and about using a weapon if possible and it is stated in the video.

About controlling the arm:
The ways I found to be the most beneficial are the "arm pit grip takeover" and the way greco wrestlers get the Russian Tie against resistance which are shown in the video.

About training with knives which are not the rubber ones: It seems like a great idea sometimes. But using it as your bread and butter training knife may result in injuries.

I would be happy if someone experience like you can try the main techniques shown in the video and report the results. Or any other Sherdog member. Uploading the results as a video is even better, even if the techniques happen to be a complete 100% failure.
 
I came to the conclusion that the techniques require serious changes in the techniques themselves/ completely different mindset. Will be updated. Just maybe take it as separate ideas on which you can improve upon.
 
@KnifeDefenceIsrael

I watched this entire series (7x20 min episodes. Lots of stuff you could skip past) and there is a lot of knife v. Unarmed martial artist content, check it out
 
We have a joke in military here:

To engage in unarmed combat, a soldier must:

1) Fuck up a machine gun, a pistol, a knife, a waist belt, an entrenching tool, a bulletproof vest, and a helmet on the battlefield.
2) Find a flat area on which there is not a single stone or stick lying around.
3) Find the same stupid mofo from the other side on it.

And only after that, he can engage in hand-to-hand combat with him.
Jocko Willink said that hand to hand was used extensively against civilians and or /terrorists when they’d clear houses. People in the house wouldn’t comply to leaving or being cuffed so hands on was used more that you’d think . He said it was amazing how easy it was to subdue someone with bjj , or wrestling training .
 
***I came to the conclusion that the techniques require serious changes in the techniques themselves/ completely different mindset. Will be updated. Just maybe take it as separate ideas on which you can improve upon.

Hey. I'm from Israel and we have been suffering from a lot of knife terror attacks lately.
I thought about the subject deeply and watched and tried almost every video with more than 1000 views and in almost all of the languages. then I combined my former knowledge (Former Israeli national judo) and my hobby (Watching combat sports) to produce this video. it contains examples from real fights and combat sports for the majority of the techniques, and a demonstration against 100% resistance.

The video was approved by the official page of the Russian combat sambo federation (They uploaded it to their page separately as well).

View attachment 959515


Standing Kimura 40 minutes mostly MMA HIGHLIGHT (To see the possible Set ups/ counters/ counters to the counters options in real life) thread:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...cks-40-minutes-mostly-mma-highlights.4285279/

There are few "holes" in the video. They will be addressed at the "Part 2- Useful Ideas from around the internet" video (I put in the comments of the video and in the description of the video stuff which I find useful. I'll just cut the useful parts for the "Part 2" video, plus add some things of my own).

******An important point is dealing with the possibility of a second weapon draw with the opponent's free arm.

***1:35 How to reduce the opponent's chance to draw another weapon with his free arm during an Arm Bar.


*** arm trap techniques during Kimura to prevent another weapon draw: 1) 2:10
2) 3:05


You know, while I totally disagree with your countrymen are handling the Palestinian issue, I do support your guys right to live in peace and definitely not be stabbed around on a regular civilian day. So here’s my 2 cents……

Like another poster on here said, I also doubt the average civilian’s going to take the time out of his day to learn and drill these techniques.
I, personally, think more simpler and easier to do things would be better and more easily taught and more importantly, retained.
For eg.

1. The number one defence is awareness. Not kung fu, not no special flip or Muay Thai spinning back kick. Just plain and simple non paranoid awareness. Look about you. Keep your distance. Don’t slouch or look lost or have that easy victim air. If you see a disturbance, don’t look the other way and keep walking.
If there’s a bunch of people walking but some guy’s just standing there looking agitated / shifty / stressed don’t put your head down and walk right past him. Be aware of him and give him a wide berth.
Don’t put your head down and round corners, look where you’re going.
You get the idea.

Here’s another one. When approached by a guy with a knife, if you’re far enough, move further away then keep your eyes on him and call for help.
If you can’t run away, face him but be aware of your surroundings behind you whilst you back away. Be loud. Very loud.

and finally the most important one in active defence, quickly take off your jacket / shirt or whatever and quickly wrap it around your lead forearm. Use that forearm like a shield and guard your torso. That cloth barrier should save you from most slices, deep stabs etc etc. from mist kitchen utensils used by assholes. Blades get caught in it and fall.
Just as importantly, it shows the attacker you’re not some victim and you’re ready for a fight. I imagine most spree attackers are looking for easy victims and numbers. Not to get bogged down in a fight with a single guy and get jumped by others. If you practice this, it literally takes two or three seconds from take off to arm wrap. You don’t take it off your lead arm. From over your head, if it’s a T-shirt, to quick wraparound.

I can personally vouch for the last one here. Twice.
Mutual fights in my youth. I still carry the scars on left arm from the first one and in the second one, the guy backed down because I guess I looked too ready (I had a knife in my other hand too).
Tough pool rooms and Florida make a good combination.

Looking around for a good ranged weapon like a stick or a pole is pretty good too, I’d imagine. And used like a poking weapon / a spear rather than swinging it like a bat (unless it’s to show him).


Hopes this helps.
 
knife defense? run.........
Basically yes.

With nuances.
If someone is really determined to hurt you not only to use knife AS threat / detterent , then advisable strategy is to jump back asap AS it is possible. ...and start to run away only after this will be done.

From behind victim is vulnerable and your hope is that range gap etc will be enough.
The same is about unarmed attacks cases too.
 
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I will tell that vs experienced and determined attacker you will not have time! to wrap any bare thing.

When I was young I was sometimes stupid and without enough life experience.

" walk the road " in some circles was.....
You are entering room and close door, then walk till the table and you have free choice to do this or no.
Judge and referee here are both you, opponent and Creator.
Then if you will decide to walk till table and after this to take knife...
Then Next options to choice will be: will you step forward and continue to prepare for attack.
Your opponent willl have the same options ...

Then The Creator and you both will decide outcome...

And nope...
Classic knife defense isn't bad and is taught for policemans and military.
It does work IMHO really well vs nost common kinds of attacks usually taught ...
Some 5-8 most common and effective attacks methods.


So I'm more afraid from random really fast psychopath or knifefigther not from someone with 4-6 months fulltime training.....
 
Criminals using knifes are using them cos 2 reasons.
1. To threat you. Then they will show knife.
2. With previous real intent to damage you and then they will do all the best in their abilities in order not to show you any signs that they might use knife... Till attack will be started.
 
I will tell that vs experienced and determined attacker you will not have time! to wrap any bare thing.

When I was young I was sometimes stupid and without enough life experience.

" walk the road " in some circles was.....
You are entering room and close door, then walk till the table and you have free choice to do this or no.
Judge and referee here are both you, opponent and Creator.
Then if you will decide to walk till table and after this to take knife...
Then Next options to choice will be: will you step forward and continue to prepare for attack.
Your opponent willl have the same options ...

Then The Creator and you both will decide outcome...

And nope...
Classic knife defense isn't bad and is taught for policemans and military.
It does work IMHO really well vs nost common kinds of attacks usually taught ...
Some 5-8 most common and effective attacks methods.


So I'm more afraid from random really fast psychopath or knifefigther not from someone with 4-6 months fulltime training.....

The problem with wrapping is that you can't block endless strikes. Plus, you won't be able to use the wrapped hand for grabbing.
 
The problem with wrapping is that you can't block endless strikes. Plus, you won't be able to use the wrapped hand for grabbing.
Wrapping isn't panacea however most huge flaw in knife defense therories is assumption that opponent will concentrate to use only his hand with knife.....or will use only stabbing mowements...and third sin is to assume that opponent wil have only one knife in one hand.
Fouth sin is to assume that opponent doesn't have legs, fists, elbows and head...to be used.
Fifth mistake is if ....he in reality doesn't wants to kill you then tactique will be different.
Sixth mistake might happen if you will get opponent who isn't rushing to take you out asap and instead will opt to wear down slowly and with minimal risk slowly to finish you...expect for example dirty KB / wrestling etc .....with knife as addition not main attack tool....
 
If that guy really wants to kill you ... better run. run. run. ruuuuuuuuun.

What helped me in such situations where i have to run for my life is soccer and doing parkour. Only sprinters could catch me.

If all he wants is to threat you, there are some things you could do but even then its super dangerous.

Real life isnt a cartoon.
 
Yup. However running does have one nuance: you should increase distance betwen you and opponent ....before you will turn back in order to run away....otherwise ____
Average street thug is different stuff than knifefighter ..
These usually doesn't talk long talks.
Methods they are using usually is to do duel format or...they will not show knife till last moment . don't except that by watching just their pockets you will be safe.
If they wants to threat someone but actually doesn't want to kill you, then attack method might be for example to pretend that he will go to stab you and you if have automatized flowchart will work according flowchart while he really maybe wants to attack from other side and specially pulled back kinfe in order not to stab you.
Some knifefighters does have some kind of codex that they will not use knife against you if you don't have knife. Some doesn't care..
 

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