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Umm blame the state and humans, and not pretend it’s somehow gods will that we must trust but not understand.
Social Religious 'Nones' are now the largest single group in the U.S.
- Thread starter Madmick
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I agree with your post besides the bolded. There will always be things that are unfathomable to humans. We will hit an IQ ceiling eventually. Even with infinite time there would be things we don't understand. There is also no way to prove that the knowledge we have is objectively correct let alone if we discover 100% of the universe like some kind of game.
The problem is that humans have always acted logically in my eyes. Leaders just used religion as a crutch to get what they want. They use different tactics these days to rile up human emotion. Religion is just a tool for powerful people to move humans. Nothing will change besides the tactics employed.
"Reason" and "Logic" isn't some kind of game changer. The Germans were acting logically and rationally in their eyes when they were enacting their plans. The same for everyone else that has done evil. Acting with reason or faith doesn't change anything imo. Logic if anything is worse because you don't second guess yourself.
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Well I’m gonna have to disagree, I don’t think humans have always acted logically. I think the people in power usually act selfishly, and that’s why I believe dispersing power as such in a democracy can weaken the problematic issues.
I agree religion has been abused for power over and over, and that is exactly my point that when people stop believing blindly in something because of tradition or something similar we can free ourselves to truly become better.
I think what is lacking in the case of people who feel they are “logical” is humility and empathy.
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What does this mean
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in dysfunctional families there is what is called the identified problem. its usually the weakest person in the group or the one who the system is not working for. there is a general sense that something is wrong in the family but that cannot be consciously recognized so its blamed on that one person.
if religion is not the problem and i do not think it is then "they" will just find a new group to blame.
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Ok but that just sounds like bettering oneself or society , nothing is perfect but we should still strive for perfection.
Which I don’t think is too far off from what “god” would want
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i cant see how your post applies to mine man....
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Oh, excuse me, he did 1%/3% better than McCain. He was only worse than every other Republican Presidential candidate over the past 20 years with that demographic! McCain actually won a higher proportion of the 'Nones' relative to his general election vote portion than Trump-- Obama was simply overwhelmingly popular in 2008 which Trump never was. Remember, Trump has never won a popular vote. Lost it twice.
No, he didn't do as well as Romney. He won a lower percentage of their votes in his first election, and then an equal percentage while his opponent won more than Obama did against Romney. That's particularly telling when one notes how popular Obama was with the demographic: more popular than any other candidate in either party in the 21st century.
What's your takeaway? Are you ready to concede all the dumb shit about him bringing the 'Nones' over to the Republican side was daydreaming detached from reality born from your acute case of TNS? You know, Trump Nuthugger Syndrome?
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From your post what I got is someone is always not going to be happy , and therefore is going to want to change the system am I wrong on that?
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yes. that context was about a dysfunctional family who wont/cant see their own disorder tso it blames it on the weaker one or the one who questions the system. if religion is not the problem.. then the problem is in everyone and once religion is gone then a new identified problem will need to be blamed. this will most certainly be the poor and weak... ironically the very people Christianity protected the most in its original form anyways.
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Hmm I don’t agree it would be the poor and weak, and I think you are just jumping to conclusions there.
But we are also talking about something bigger than a family, more eyes, more minds , and more discourse, leading to bette ideas . There will be struggle, there will be pain, but that is growing
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Fair enough, and it's true enough that as a society we will never attain uniformity of knowledge. Even now many folks are reality challenged. It's also true that an individual will never be able to hold all the answers in their head, or solve every mystery, simply because an individual's lifespan is finite, as is absolute capacity.
There is also a limit to intelligence...currently the highest measured IQ is 250...but I don't think a greater intelligence is the answer. It's just building on pre-existing knowledge.
I do think that collectively humanity's knowledge has expanded exponentially in our lifetimes alone, and I have no reason to believe that there is an absolute ceiling for that expansion.
In any case, it's something that won't be decided either way in our lifetime.
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The "Moral Majority" imploded under their own religious hypocrisy, so I'm not surprised an equivalent group has failed to significantly inherit their mantle. Can't see the fringe dominionists/Christian Nationalists that got some attention resurrecting a coherent bloc either, since they are inherently divisive.
The political division between Catholics and Protestants is being overstated though in calling them Christian political minorities in comparison to "nones".
Especially amongst Republicans. Don't 9/10 still claim to believe in God and roughly the same amount consider the bible either the literal truth or the inspired word of God? They just don't attend Church (the question of whether any of them still have any actual faith and manifest it in their lives is of course entirely open).
Not sure Trump was really that big a change in direction policy wise either, and not just because his personal conspicuous consumption and self promotion as branding fits in well with prosperity doctrine and "justified by wealth". He also proved perfectly happy to ignore the populism he used as self promotion to support more typical Republican positions. Including when pandering to religious positions. You saw that as he shifted stance on abortion from "hating it, but being in favour of choice" to talking about a punitive approach (although he flip flopped on his comment on punishing women when called on it).
Tax cuts for the wealthy are of course still completely on brand for him.
The political division between Catholics and Protestants is being overstated though in calling them Christian political minorities in comparison to "nones".
Especially amongst Republicans. Don't 9/10 still claim to believe in God and roughly the same amount consider the bible either the literal truth or the inspired word of God? They just don't attend Church (the question of whether any of them still have any actual faith and manifest it in their lives is of course entirely open).
Not sure Trump was really that big a change in direction policy wise either, and not just because his personal conspicuous consumption and self promotion as branding fits in well with prosperity doctrine and "justified by wealth". He also proved perfectly happy to ignore the populism he used as self promotion to support more typical Republican positions. Including when pandering to religious positions. You saw that as he shifted stance on abortion from "hating it, but being in favour of choice" to talking about a punitive approach (although he flip flopped on his comment on punishing women when called on it).
Tax cuts for the wealthy are of course still completely on brand for him.
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This is pretty much just a creative breakdown anyway, and they aren't actually the largest group or even close.
If you're splitting Christians into several different groups, why would you combine atheists, agnostics and people who do believe in God but aren't members of a congregation into 1 group?
To whatever extent you can get information on these several different groups as 1, it sounds like they're largely more checked out society in general. I suspect they probably have higher rates of depression, and if I were selling weed or video games, they'd be the top customers, but politically it's not much of a fruit bearing tree.
By a variety of measures, religious “nones” are less civically engaged and socially connected than people who identify with a religion. On average, they are less likely to vote, less likely to have volunteered lately, less satisfied with their local communities and less satisfied with their social lives.
If you're splitting Christians into several different groups, why would you combine atheists, agnostics and people who do believe in God but aren't members of a congregation into 1 group?
To whatever extent you can get information on these several different groups as 1, it sounds like they're largely more checked out society in general. I suspect they probably have higher rates of depression, and if I were selling weed or video games, they'd be the top customers, but politically it's not much of a fruit bearing tree.
By a variety of measures, religious “nones” are less civically engaged and socially connected than people who identify with a religion. On average, they are less likely to vote, less likely to have volunteered lately, less satisfied with their local communities and less satisfied with their social lives.
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I first read that as Religious Nonces.
It makes sense either way.
It makes sense either way.
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Less murder today than there was when this country was supposedly more moral and Christian. Move to the Middle East if you want religion. I hear it’s a lovely place
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This is what I'm getting at. I don't buy this, or rather, I think they're stating something with misleading language. The pollsters who conduct those polls are framing their questions in a way that causes the respondents to seek to signal their vague theistic tendencies, especially the women, who have always been a much larger portion of the non-Atheist/Agnostic portion of this 'Nones' bloc, when in reality, they don't possess almost any structured Christian theological beliefs at all. For that poll, they selected, "The Bible is the inspired word of God but not everything in it should be taken literally, word for word". To them, Christ is a metaphor. The most Christian dimension of their beliefs is that they are monotheistic in sympathy, and their God is characterized by the three omni's (omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent).
They don't subscribe to any of the rest of it. They don't care about the apostles. They don't care about baptism. They think several of the Commandments are archaic, and morally invalid. They don't believe in the immaculate conception: that Christ is God, physically manifest. They don't literally accept the testimony of the miracles. They don't even genuinely care about the true, singular price of admission; to accept Christ-- not just God, but Christ-- into one's heart as their Lord and Savior who sacrificed himself and suffered for their sins.
No, to them, there's a higher power, and he loves you. There's a Devil, and he hates you. That pretty much sums it up. That's America, now. Fastest growing group.
